What you like and dislike about GMG

[eyeresist]

Er, Linus Torvalds?

[Opus106]

Richard Stallman, shall he always show us the way. 0:)

This photo is more telling.

Er, Linus Torvalds?

He isn't quite the fundamentalist that Stallman is. For instance, Linus is appreciative of the MacBook and in fact uses one (or perhaps more) personally. As for RMS, you can read about his preferences here.

[Philoctetes]

I dislike two things. That users can remain hidden, and that ignore doesn't equal block.

[Karl Henning]

I like that Heavy Metal Dave (when he's about) freely alters his ID and avatar ; )

[Sergeant Rock]

I like that Heavy Metal Dave (when he's about) freely alters his ID and avatar ; )

Keeps us guessing, keeps us on our toes   

Sarge

[offbeat]

Likes
The very wide knowledge of composers both popular and obscure by members

Dislikes
Too much chatter about various interpretation of works and not enough about the works themselves 

[The new erato]

Too much chatter about various interpretation of works and not enough about the works themselves 

How else can one defend buying more....and more.....and even more....?

[offbeat]

How else can one defend buying more....and more.....and even more....?

true - for me lifes too short to analyze ten versions of beethoven 5 for example

[DavidRoss]

Dislikes
Too much chatter about various interpretation of works and not enough about the works themselves 

Hi, Richard!

There was a lot more discussion about the music itself several years ago. We've lost many of the members who initiated those discussions, like WeirdEars, Larry Rinkel, and M. In their place we now have more participants who are just record collectors* (like me  ) and fewer who are primarily musicians (like Luke and Karl). Even so, discussions focused on the music itself still take place sometimes, usually on the composers threads, and if you would like to see more of them you are welcome -- nay, encouraged! -- to initiate them.

*Perhaps too dignified a description for those of us who are just plain obsessive about hoarding shiny little plastic discs and big black vinyl discs with pretty pictures on their covers!

[offbeat]

Hi, Richard!

There was a lot more discussion about the music itself several years ago. We've lost many of the members who initiated those discussions, like WeirdEars, Larry Rinkel, and M. In their place we now have more participants who are just record collectors (like me  ) and fewer who are primarily musicians (like Luke and Karl). Even so, discussions focused on the music itself still take place sometimes, usually on the composers threads, and if you would like to see more of them you are welcome -- nay, encouraged! -- to initiate them.

Hi David - will check out composers threads tks

[Sergeant Rock]

true - for me lifes too short to analyze ten versions of beethoven 5 for example

Music is a performance and interpretive art. Discussing and comparing how the music is played is just as important as discussing the technical details of the score. Hearing how different ten versions of the Fifth can be is not only fascinating, it's illuminating.

Sarge

[Henk]

Music is a performance and interpretive art. Discussing and comparing how the music is played is just as important as discussing the technical details of the score. Hearing how different ten versions of the Fifth can be is not only fascinating, it's illuminating.

Sarge

You completely miss the point, music itself. Performing classical music is only a secondary art.

There's just a lot of rubbish on the market, really. Labels are kidding us. Buying all those recordings doesn't make sense. It comes to pick out the nice recordings, the best way to do this is in the local record store. But the labels only want to sell on internet it seems.

[Ataraxia]

I like that Heavy Metal Dave (when he's about) freely alters his ID and avatar ; )

Sarge loves when I do that. 

[Karl Henning]

You completely miss the point, music itself. Performing classical music is only a secondary art.

Well, your point there misses out on the central fact of music: without the performance, there is no audience.  Unless we train the whole world to read scores, and understand the piece without the mediation of performers.

The fact is that, unless you've got blokes like Luke and me talking about detail from the score, irrespective of a recording or performance, any discussion of a piece here at GMG in fact references a specific performance/recording (or set of performances/recordings); there are only questions of the degree to which the comment is dependent upon specific performance(s), and of the degree to which the commenter is aware of that state of affairs.

So I applaud Sarge for not only manfully owning up to the fact that accidents of specific performances/recordings are mixed up in the ball of wax, but for taking intelligent and musical interest in that aspect of things.

Certainly, I appreciate offbeat's desire for discussion more oriented to traits of the music itself.  It does seem to me, though, that discussion of differences in interpretation and in the recorded result almost necessarily accompanies any extended discussion of a piece of music.

[Karl Henning]

Sarge loves when I do that. 

G'day, dude!

[DavidRoss]

true - for me lifes too short to analyze ten versions of beethoven 5 for example

For me, too. But not too short to compare several versions of any Sibelius symphony, or Mahler, or select other works that I love so much and collect different interpretations of because I love them AND don't want my love to grow stale by listening to the exact same thing over and over again.

Music is a performance and interpretive art. Hearing how different ten versions of the Fifth can be is not only fascinating, it's illuminating.

Yeah -- what he said!

The other thing about discussing our preferences re. recordings is that it helps us to learn one another's tastes -- and that, in turn, helps guide us in seeking "new" music to love, which is one of the primary reasons most of us come here, I think.

Although some come to show off their poor manners. That's one of the things I like least about GMG and most other bulletin boards forums in general. 

[Elgarian]

You completely miss the point, music itself. Performing classical music is only a secondary art.

There are not many things that I'm certain about; but one of them would be that Sarge is unlikely to miss the point in a discussion of music. Much more likely is that what he has said has been misunderstood.

There's just a lot of rubbish on the market, really. Labels are kidding us. Buying all those recordings doesn't make sense. It comes to pick out the nice recordings, the best way to do this is in the local record store. But the labels only want to sell on internet it seems.

This has very little to do with why some of us might buy a range of different recordings. Here are a few of mine:

1. There can never be one definitive performance of a particular piece; and even if there were, it would be difficult (actually impossible, I think) to get general acceptance of which one it might be.

2. A favourite piece of music can grow stale if listened to only via one particular recorded performance. By having several recordings (ie interpretations) available, that staleness can be largely avoided. It's worth bearing in mind that until the (still relatively recent) advent of recordings, the only way of ever listening to music was through live performances, and every performance would be different. By owning several recordings something of the spirit of that natural variation can be recaptured.

3. I mentioned in another thread recently Gombrich's concept of 'the beholder's share'. It refers to the visual arts specifically, but the same principle applies in music: 'the listener's share'. That is, when the composer and performers have done their work, it's up to me to do mine. And if I find that by listening to several different recordings I can understand the music more completely (as is quite often the case), then my 'listener's share' becomes more effective, and a richer musical experience is the result.

Finally, since when did discussing different interpretations mean that one is not discussing the music? By discussing differences in performance, one's attention is drawn back again and again to the music, and the composer's likely intentions, thereby clarifying and enriching one's relationship with it. And how else (except through one's relationship with it) can any of us ever come to grips with it at all?

[Elgarian]

I should have added to my last (for it was the reason why I posted at all), that reading about the responses of others to different performances is enormously helpful, even (perhaps especially) when the responses are very different to my own. It sends me back to the music yet again, wondering whether I've missed something worthwhile. Often I have, I find. That's one of the most important reasons why I come here.

[Leon]

Music is a performance and interpretive art. Discussing and comparing how the music is played is just as important as discussing the technical details of the score. Hearing how different ten versions of the Fifth can be is not only fascinating, it's illuminating.

Sarge

Yep.

In fact, I'd much rather discuss a performance or interpretation since there is a historical body of performances available for comparison, whereas talking about "the music itself" can be either too technical (notice the subtle manner in which the composer uses the altered sixth chord in his transition from the tonic passing through the sub-dominant harmony on his way finally to the relative minor, from whence the development begins) or meaningless (here the composer is expressing grief at the loss of humanity and growing decadence at the end of the century and outrage over the brutalilty of the industrial revolution).

[Karl Henning]

There are not many things that I'm certain about; but one of them would be that Sarge is unlikely to miss the point in a discussion of music. Much more likely is that what he has said has been misunderstood.

This has very little to do with why some of us might buy a range of different recordings. Here are a few of mine:

1. There can never be one definitive performance of a particular piece; and even if there were, it would be difficult (actually impossible, I think) to get general acceptance of which one it might be.

2. A favourite piece of music can grow stale if listened to only via one particular recorded performance. By having several recordings (ie interpretations) available, that staleness can be largely avoided. It's worth bearing in mind that until the (still relatively recent) advent of recordings, the only way of ever listening to music was through live performances, and every performance would be different. BY owning several recordings something of the spirit of that natural variation can be recaptured.

3. I mentioned in another thread recently Gombrich's concept of 'the beholder's share'. It refers to the visual arts specifically, but the same principle applies in music: 'the listener's share'. That is, when the composer and performers have done their work, it's up to me to do mine. And if I find that by listening to several difference recordings I can understand the music more completely (as is quite often the case), then my 'listener's share' becomes more effective, and a richer musical experience is the result.

Finally, since when did discussing different interpretations mean that one is not discussing the music? By discussing differences in performance, one's attention is drawn back again and again to the music, and the composer's likely intentions, thereby clarifying and enriching one's relationship with it. And how else (except through one's relationship with it) can any of us ever come to grips with it at all?

I should have added to my last (for it was the reason why I posted at all), that reading about the responses of others to different performances is enormously helpful, even (perhaps especially) when the responses are very different to my own. It sends me back to the music yet again, wondering whether I've missed something worthwhile. Often I have, I find. That's one of the most important reasons why I come here.

Signally apt remarks, thank you.