Holst's The Planets

[mc ukrneal]

Dutoit and Bernstein dropped through the letterbox this morning. I put Dutoit into the player and waited for the earth to move ... but it didn't. I mean - it was OK, very polished etc, but there seemed a lack of urgency and my attention kept drifting away. By the time Jupiter ended I thought my mood must be all wrong, so I pulled the plug and decided to try again another day.

But then I took a look at what Gramophone said about it: "Dutoit conducts with infectious bounce and plenty of twinkling affection'. Twinkling affection? I mean, there's room for all sorts, but how do you present 'Mars' or 'Jupiter' or 'Saturn' with twinkling affection (or infectious bounce, for that matter)? If that reviewer is reporting his impressions faithfully, then my vaguely disappointed reaction seems less of a surprise.

All a bit mystifying. This isn't what I expected to happen.

I just listened to this version (just Mars) on youtube. I would characterize it a a bit more refined and transparent, not exactly what I think makes an ideal Mars. He gets some beautiful sounds, but that is not enough. I think you are quite close to it for me when you say it lacks urgency (but is quite polished). I do like how I can really hear the organ and lots of other details. Now that you know what to expect, it might go better the second time.

[Mirror Image]

Dutoit and Bernstein dropped through the letterbox this morning. I put Dutoit into the player and waited for the earth to move ... but it didn't. I mean - it was OK, very polished etc, but there seemed a lack of urgency and my attention kept drifting away. By the time Jupiter ended I thought my mood must be all wrong, so I pulled the plug and decided to try again another day.

But then I took a look at what Gramophone said about it: "Dutoit conducts with infectious bounce and plenty of twinkling affection'. Twinkling affection? I mean, there's room for all sorts, but how do you present 'Mars' or 'Jupiter' or 'Saturn' with twinkling affection (or infectious bounce, for that matter)? If that reviewer is reporting his impressions faithfully, then my vaguely disappointed reaction seems less of a surprise.

All a bit mystifying. This isn't what I expected to happen.

The Dutoit has never been a favorite of mine, like Sarge said, this is the wrong music for him. Give him some Ravel or Debussy and all will be well. I remember having a similar reaction as you did. Mars was completely wrong-headed from the start and then it progressively got worse. I quit listening after Venus. I remember feeling the need to remedy this performance with a better one so I put on Andrew Davis' with the BBC Symphony Orchestra and I felt better again.

For the record: Andrew Davis recorded The Planets twice: one with the Toronto Symphony and the other one with the BBC Symphony.

[snyprrr]

'No Holst Barred'

[Elgarian]

Still on the topic of Dutoit's Planets - the Penguin Guide has some interesting things to say (and indeed it's on this that I based my choice of my first two purchases, since I had to start somewhere). They say it's an 'outstandingly successful version', 'rich and brilliant'. 'It is remarkable that, whether in the relentless build-up of Mars, the lyricism of Venus, the rich exuberance of Jupiter or in so much else, Dutoit and his players sound so idiomatic.' They give it four, yes, an exceptional four stars, and regard it as one of their 'key' recordings.

I may well be missing something here that I might pick up on another hearing, as mc ukrneal suggested above. But I have a sneaking feeling that I may end up putting it in the same pigeonhole as Kondrashin's Scheherazade: very worthy and polished, and doubtless the favourite of many, but not quite what I was looking for.

[Mirror Image]

My goodness I just listened to Mackerras' Planets with the Royal Liverpool Philharmonic (on Virgin) and all I have say is WOW!!!! Unbelievably good. This may end up being my favorite Planets. It's just that good, so take note, Elgarian. That's two votes for Mackerras so far.

The recording I have is out-of-print I believe but you should be able to track it down for a good price. In the meantime, listen to Mackerras in Mars:

http://www.youtube.com/v/Jmk5frp6-3Q

[Gie663]

This is my favourite : not the best as to state of the art recording technology, but a sincere and brooding interpretation. I've put it next to Steinberg and Dutoit, but Ormandy left them both behind. Listen for example to the string section in 'Mercury, the winged messenger' : only Ormandy can lay out all the virtuoso lines in the different sections - Dutoit and Steinberg have the better recording quality and yet their string pyrotechnics sound muffled and somewhat dull.

[mc ukrneal]

My goodness I just listened to Mackerras' Planets with the Royal Liverpool Philharmonic (on Virgin) and all I have say is WOW!!!! Unbelievably good. This may end up being my favorite Planets. It's just that good, so take note, Elgarian. That's two votes for Mackerras so far.

The recording I have is out-of-print I believe but you should be able to track it down for a good price. In the meantime, listen to Mackerras in Mars:

http://www.youtube.com/v/Jmk5frp6-3Q

This is a much better Mars. I find the spirit of it much more in line with Mars, the Bringer of War. I do find the balance to be a bit disappointing. The Bass is overly stressed, and the trumpets don't have quite the impact when they make their entrances. Perhaps this has more to do with being on youtube and lower bit rates? The lower brass have great presence.

[Mirror Image]

This is a much better Mars. I find the spirit of it much more in line with Mars, the Bringer of War. I do find the balance to be a bit disappointing. The Bass is overly stressed, and the trumpets don't have quite the impact when they make their entrances. Perhaps this has more to do with being on youtube and lower bit rates? The lower brass have great presence.

Yes, YouTube isn't very kind to classical music and this Mackerras performance is no different.

[Karl Henning]

Still on the topic of Dutoit's Planets - the Penguin Guide has some interesting things to say (and indeed it's on this that I based my choice of my first two purchases, since I had to start somewhere). They say it's an 'outstandingly successful version', 'rich and brilliant'. 'It is remarkable that, whether in the relentless build-up of Mars, the lyricism of Venus, the rich exuberance of Jupiter or in so much else, Dutoit and his players sound so idiomatic.' They give it four, yes, an exceptional four stars, and regard it as one of their 'key' recordings.

I've browsed the Penguin Guide before, and have had frequent occasion for the mental double-take . . . whether excessive praise for a recording I knew, and in which I had heard no such wonders, or dismissal of a recording which I find exceptionally fine.

[TheGSMoeller]

This is a much better Mars. I find the spirit of it much more in line with Mars, the Bringer of War. I do find the balance to be a bit disappointing. The Bass is overly stressed, and the trumpets don't have quite the impact when they make their entrances. Perhaps this has more to do with being on youtube and lower bit rates? The lower brass have great presence.

The balance is disappointing.
But I slightly disagree with the lower brass presence, for example at 5:00 is an important trombone lick (three quarter notes, two sets of triplets) that just seems to get lost and muddled. Now I am bit bias because of my brass playing past, but I find lines such as, especially for when the entire trombone section is in unison, should cut through.

But the intensity is there, and it's strong. And I appreciate the tempo, as slower Mars performances tend to lose the Bringer of War aspect.

[Mirror Image]

The balance is disappointing.
But I slightly disagree with the lower brass presence, for example at 5:00 is an important trombone lick (three quarter notes, two sets of triplets) that just seems to get lost and muddled. Now I am bit bias because of my brass playing past, but I find lines such as, especially for when the entire trombone section is in unison, should cut through.

But the intensity is there, and it's strong. And I appreciate the tempo, as slower Mars performances tend to lose the Bringer of War aspect.

My Dad loved Mackerras' performance. He, too, has a history with brass. He played trumpet from a child up into his early 20s. I don't detect no such balance problems myself, but, then again, I own the recording and blasted it through the ol' stereo. Mighty fine performance.

Speaking of bringing out the war in Mars, this is something I thought Bernstein did well in his recording. Have you heard Bernstein's, Greg?

P.S. Coming from a percussion background (played snare drum, bass drum, and timpani in school) I was really surprised how good the percussion sounded on this Mackerras recording.

[DavidW]

I like Bernstein.

[Mirror Image]

Elgarian, have you heard the Bernstein recording yet?

[Elgarian]

The recording [Mackerras]I have is out-of-print I believe but you should be able to track it down for a good price.

Thanks for putting up the youtube. As others have observed, the balance is bass-heavy and the sound overall rather muffled, but I'm willing to bet that the original recording isn't responsible for that.

I'm uneasy about the pacing - its fast tempo teeters on the brink of jollity in places (to my ears), but these are all the kinds of differences I want to investigate. I found some used copies for 40p, so I thought I'd be daft not to try one, and pulled the trigger.

[Elgarian]

Elgarian, have you heard the Bernstein recording yet?

No, but it's sitting on the shelf muttering 'Play me! Play me!'

[Mirror Image]

Thanks for putting up the youtube. As others have observed, the balance is bass-heavy and the sound overall rather muffled, but I'm willing to bet that the original recording isn't responsible for that.

I'm uneasy about the pacing - its fast tempo teeters on the brink of jollity in places (to my ears), but these are all the kinds of differences I want to investigate. I found some used copies for 40p, so I thought I'd be daft not to try one, and pulled the trigger.

Excellent, Elgarian! You'll enjoy it I think. The audio quality is excellent and there aren't, to my ears, any balance problems whatsoever.

[Mirror Image]

No, but it's sitting on the shelf muttering 'Play me! Play me!'

I've been meaning to give Bernstein's another spin myself. I've heard it several times, but it's been awhile since I've revisited it. Please let me know your thoughts of the recording once you've heard it.

[Karl Henning]

No, but it's sitting on the shelf muttering 'Play me! Play me!'

Oh, that's Bernstein, all right!

[Elgarian]

I've been meaning to give Bernstein's another spin myself. I've heard it several times, but it's been awhile since I've revisited it. Please let me know your thoughts of the recording once you've heard it.

Just listened to his 'Mars'. Without a doubt this is the most exciting, the scariest, and the most remorseless I've heard yet. It's big. I have the impression of something vast and threatening, about to descend and destroy everything in sight. If the rest is as fine as this then wow!

Venus is exquisite - really plaintive, tugging at the heart, lovely violin passages. Well, lovely everything passages actually. I'm typing as I listen, and this is seriously beautiful playing. Achingly vulnerable. I feel as if I mustn't breathe, for fear of breaking something precious.

Mercury ripples along very nicely - could it be that here we have a small helping of 'infectious bounce'? (The section that begins about 1 minute in always reminds me of Scheherazade for some reason). This is delicately articulate, and it's very easy indeed to imagine fluttering wing movements in the air. Lovely.

OK, The Big One. Jupiter. Here we go. Superb introduction, weighty, full of nobility and good feeling. I'm listening on headphones, not my LS3/5As, but this sounds like a very fine recording: the tinkling at the top end and the thromping at the bottom are perfectly defined.  OK the hymn. O bloody hell, this is eye-watering stuff. This great tune is  up there above me, soaring; now restrained - it's alright, puny humans, I can be gentle with you, it says. But now there's no holding it, and here we go with the definitive statement of the big tune. Oh hell this is just superb. Back to the bacchanal, jollity a la nobilmente. Gathering for the finale - tinkling triangles, tambourines, gathering momentum. Big swirling restatement of hymn, like a giant sea creature down in the depths - now up, up, up, and .....free! Wow. That was a great ride.

I have to stop there, but from the sound of the beginning, Saturn's going to be good too. Mr Bernstein, I thank you, Sir. I think this is going to be a benchmark for me.

[Mirror Image]

Just listened to his 'Mars'. Without a doubt this is the most exciting, the scariest, and the most remorseless I've heard yet. It's big. I have the impression of something vast and threatening, about to descend and destroy everything in sight. If the rest is as fine as this then wow!

Venus is exquisite - really plaintive, tugging at the heart, lovely violin passages. Well, lovely everything passages actually. I'm typing as I listen, and this is seriously beautiful playing. Achingly vulnerable. I feel as if I mustn't breathe, for fear of breaking something precious.

Mercury ripples along very nicely - could it be that here we have a small helping of 'infectious bounce'? (The section that begins about 1 minute in always reminds me of Scheherazade for some reason). This is delicately articulate, and it's very easy indeed to imagine fluttering wing movements in the air. Lovely.

OK, The Big One. Jupiter. Here we go. Superb introduction, weighty, full of nobility and good feeling. I'm listening on headphones, not my LS3/5As, but this sounds like a very fine recording: the tinkling at the top end and the thromping at the bottom are perfectly defined.  OK the hymn. O bloody hell, this is eye-watering stuff. This great tune is  up there above me, soaring; now restrained - it's alright, puny humans, I can be gentle with you, it says. But now there's no holding it, and here we go with the definitive statement of the big tune. Oh hell this is just superb. Back to the bacchanal, jollity a la nobilmente. Gathering for the finale - tinkling triangles, tambourines, gathering momentum. Big swirling restatement of hymn, like a giant sea creature down in the depths - now up, up, up, and .....free! Wow. That was a great ride.

I have to stop there, but from the sound of the beginning, Saturn's going to be good too. Mr Bernstein, I thank you, Sir. I think this is going to be a benchmark for me.

Haha! I knew you'd like it! There are many I've spoken with who swear by Bernstein's performance and it's no wonder. It's certainly one of my favorites. The whole performance is some rip-roaring good stuff. If I'm not mistaken, this was Bernstein's last performance as principal conductor of the New York Philharmonic. I could be wrong, but I remember reading this somewhere.