Holst's The Planets

[Sergeant Rock]

(used the insert flash button but only got a white box ... ?)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5emXbzpKCmc

You have to change the url. Take out the watch and ? and change the = to /

It should look like this:

www.youtube.com/v/5emXbzpKCmc

When you highlight the modified url and hit the flash button, you'll get this:

http://www.youtube.com/v/5emXbzpKCmc

You can change the 200,200 default size--you should change it.

This topic explains it:

http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,2663.msg68249.html#msg68249


Sarge

[Sergeant Rock]

After seeing Sarge's post in another thread about Hermann/LPO doing The Planets I wanted a taste.

Herrmann's was my first, and for many years, my only Planets. So I had a very warped idea of how the music should go    But, you know, I still like it. If Mars isn't exactly chilling, or exciting , it does illustrate one aspect of war. One critic likened it to soldiers slogging sullenly through the mud. And Herrmann's Jupiter, at a majestically slow pace, does produce the requisite tingle. I'm glad I didn't read Trevor Horn's damning criticism back in 1970 when that review came out (I was in a war zone that year actually, far from any newstand that carried Gramophone). He might have put me off and I might never have heard Herrmann's unique take. I don't believe it was ever released on CD.



Sarge

[Mirror Image]

Not since my report of yesterday, when I ordered Mackerras. So far I have Lloyd-Jones, Bernstein and Dutoit, with Steinberg, Boult, Karajan and Mackerras still on their way to me. I have Andrew Davis currently in my sights, and am intrigued by the report earlier in this thread of the fat brass sound of Mehta. But there's so much choice that I'm deliberately hunting around and waiting for really cheap copies to turn up. (At least, when I have time - I've a lot of other non-musical things on my plate at the moment.)

The Lloyd-Jones is one of the more disappointing Planets I've heard. Incredibly underpowered compared to my favorites. The Boult and Karajan are also pretty good but nowhere near my favorites. In fact, I've never liked Karajan's performances much any way. I was wrong when saying that Andrew Davis has recorded Planets twice, he's recorded it three times (EMI, Teldec/Warner, Chandos). His first two recordings were his best. They had more energy. I particularly liked his Teldec recording (which can be bought very cheaply through the Warner/Apex budget reissues) and it also had a fantastic performance of Egdon Heath coupled with it. Another Planets I liked was the one you mentioned Mehta with the LA Philharmonic. What a great performance! Mehta also recorded The Planets with the NY Philharmonic on Teldec, but I haven't heard this performance yet.

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[Scion7]

I don't believe it was ever released on CD.

Yeah, the Bernard Hermann site had a blurb about it being issued on CD.

[Elgarian]

The Lloyd-Jones is one of the more disappointing Planets I've heard. Incredibly underpowered compared to my favorites.

Yes. I made the same mistake here as with Scheherazade. When I decided to revisit them some years ago, I bought the (then) current Naxos disc; was underwhelmed; and concluded that I'd overlistened in my mis-spent youth (really, I'd flogged both of them to death) and still hadn't recovered. Subsequent events have proved me wrong on both counts.

The Andrew Davis with Egdon Heath is the one I'm thinking about. I've listened to samples of two Mehta recordings (NY and LA), and both seemed worth a shot, I thought.

[Sergeant Rock]

Yeah, the Bernard Hermann site had a blurb about it being issued on CD.

Only in Australia, right? 

No, I see it's available at Amazon US and UK. Thanks for pointing this out.

Sarge

[Scion7]

If you are considering a bigger order, try MovieMars via the Amazon marketplace - big huge warehouse store outside of Charlotte NC - I've bought stuff super cheap there NEW.

[Mirror Image]

If you are considering a bigger order, try MovieMars via the Amazon marketplace - big huge warehouse store outside of Charlotte NC - I've bought stuff super cheap there NEW.

MovieMars is one of the worst Amazon MP sellers I've encountered. Elgarian, avoid them! They've screwed me several times on orders and I've had to get Amazon involved just to get my money back. Horrible seller.

[Mirror Image]

Yes. I made the same mistake here as with Scheherazade. When I decided to revisit them some years ago, I bought the (then) current Naxos disc; was underwhelmed; and concluded that I'd overlistened in my mis-spent youth (really, I'd flogged both of them to death) and still hadn't recovered. Subsequent events have proved me wrong on both counts.

The Andrew Davis with Egdon Heath is the one I'm thinking about. I've listened to samples of two Mehta recordings (NY and LA), and both seemed worth a shot, I thought.

Yes, well that Andrew Davis Warner/Apex recording is very cheap and well worth it I think. Another Planets to consider is Solti's with the London Philharmonic. This was good reading as well.

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[Elgarian]

Boult arrived this morning, and I'm listening to 'Mars' right now. Very interesting. My first reaction was 'too slow, too slow'; but as things progressed I realised I was allowing my expectation of a faster pace to obscure the strengths of this performance. By the time I reached the end, I'd adjusted completely and was overwhelmed by the finale. It is devastating - and all the more devastating for being slow. Like being crushed by a giant, deliberately and inexorably. This is an interpretation quite different from Bernstein (say), but just as unanswerable in its way. Excellent.

Venus doesn't have the sparkle of the Bernstein though. It seems a bit sleepy, rather than radiantly beautiful. Boult shows us a passive beauty rather than an active one.

Mercury seems fine and ripples along. I wish I could remember what my original Planets had been all those years ago - I think I recorded it on tape from a BBC concert in the mid-60s and didn't note down the who of it (I was 16 and didn't care). But it could, conceivably, have been Boult, I guess: certainly the character of what I'm hearing now (especially now Jupiter has begun) matches pretty well with how I remember The Planets to be.

Jupiter - oh very grand. This is a fine interpretation, striking that balance between levity and grandeur that's so characteristic of the piece. The hymn reaches a wonderful climax. Seems to me that this performance approaches the polish of Dutoit without losing sight of the feeling of ... greatness. It creates the impression, though, of being more controlled than Bernstein. I don't say that it is - just that I feel it takes fewer risks, probably because by the time this recording was made, Boult had conducted the piece so many times that he knew exactly how to get what he wanted.

I have to stop here, but I can say already that I'm glad to have this.

*Footnote: Saturn and Uranus are superb - both have really scary moments (in their different ways) and Uranus in particular concludes with marvellously terrifying explosions of percussion and brass. Oh this is a fascinating disc, alright.

[Mirror Image]

Boult arrived this morning, and I'm listening to 'Mars' right now. Very interesting. My first reaction was 'too slow, too slow'; but as things progressed I realised I was allowing my expectation of a faster pace to obscure the strengths of this performance. By the time I reached the end, I'd adjusted completely and was overwhelmed by the finale. It is devastating - and all the more devastating for being slow. Like being crushed by a giant, deliberately and inexorably. This is an interpretation quite different from Bernstein (say), but just as unanswerable in its way. Excellent.

Venus doesn't have the sparkle of the Bernstein though. It seems a bit sleepy, rather than radiantly beautiful. Boult shows us a passive beauty rather than an active one.

Mercury seems fine and ripples along. I wish I could remember what my original Planets had been all those years ago - I think I recorded it on tape from a BBC concert in the mid-60s and didn't note down the who of it (I was 16 and didn't care). But it could, conceivably, have been Boult, I guess: certainly the character of what I'm hearing now (especially now Jupiter has begun) matches pretty well with how I remember The Planets to be.

Jupiter - oh very grand. This is a fine interpretation, striking that balance between levity and grandeur that's so characteristic of the piece. The hymn reaches a wonderful climax. Seems to me that this performance approaches the polish of Dutoit without losing sight of the feeling of ... greatness. It creates the impression, though, of being more controlled than Bernstein. I don't say that it is - just that I feel it takes fewer risks, probably because by the time this recording was made, Boult had conducted the piece so many times that he knew exactly how to get what he wanted.

I have to stop here, but I can say already that I'm glad to have this.

*Footnote: Saturn and Uranus are superb - both have really scary moments (in their different ways) and Uranus in particular concludes with marvellously terrifying explosions of percussion and brass. Oh this is a fascinating disc, alright.

Interesting reactions there, Elgarian. I generally like Boult's performance, but I don't think it's one of the best. As you say, he doesn't take many risks which I think in a work as popular and noteworthy as The Planets there must be some risk factor involved or the music can become stagnant. I admire Boult a lot, but even he has had off days and I feel this Planets isn't one of his finer offerings.

[Scion7]

MovieMars is one of the worst Amazon MP sellers I've encountered. Elgarian, avoid them! They've screwed me several times on orders and I've had to get Amazon involved just to get my money back. Horrible seller.

Sorry you've had trouble, but I never have, and they have an exceptionally high - like over 97% - approval rating.  ?

[Elgarian]

Interesting reactions there, Elgarian. I generally like Boult's performance, but I don't think it's one of the best. As you say, he doesn't take many risks which I think in a work as popular and noteworthy as The Planets there must be some risk factor involved or the music can become stagnant. I admire Boult a lot, but even he has had off days and I feel this Planets isn't one of his finer offerings.

Try listening to Uranus again and see what you think - particularly the last couple of minutes.

I felt the Venus was hovering on the edge of stagnation, but elsewhere ... no, I didn't find that. My comment about the risk-taking was perhaps not well-chosen: I'd intended rather to imply  he seems to have a  thorough command of what's going on, rather than a sense of playing safe. Whereas I think I probably wasted my money on Dutoit, I'm sure I haven't on Boult - even if it doesn't eventually make it into my top favourites.

[Elgarian]

Just ordered the Andrew Davis/Planets + Egdon Heath disc, by the way.

[Mirror Image]

Sorry you've had trouble, but I never have, and they have an exceptionally high - like over 97% - approval rating.  ?

Maybe the company revamped themselves? I remember a time when they were on Amazon and then were taken off. I don't know what happened.

[Karl Henning]

Sorry you've had trouble, but I never have, and they have an exceptionally high - like over 97% - approval rating.  ?

They've always been reliable for me, as well.

[Mirror Image]

Try listening to Uranus again and see what you think - particularly the last couple of minutes.

I felt the Venus was hovering on the edge of stagnation, but elsewhere ... no, I didn't find that. My comment about the risk-taking was perhaps not well-chosen: I'd intended rather to imply  he seems to have a  thorough command of what's going on, rather than a sense of playing safe. Whereas I think I probably wasted my money on Dutoit, I'm sure I haven't on Boult - even if it doesn't eventually make it into my top favourites.

I understand what you're saying. Yes, Boult does have great command over the orchestra and he did know what he was doing in this performance, but my point was that I thought the performance could have used a touch more excitement from him. He blows the Dutoit out of the water. I think the Dutoit is vastly overrated and I've only listened to it once and that was enough for me. I wouldn't say you wasted your money on the Dutoit, because 1. you can always sell it and 2. it ultimately helped you realize what you're looking for in a performance of this work.

[eyeresist]

Herrmann's recording was reissued on CD by Australian Eloquence. It's a great set, except that Fennell's tempos for the military suites are too fast. (And I still prefer Handley for the Planets!)
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I think the mistake was to have it composed by Colin Matthews instead of John Williams. I'm sure JW would have made it sound very Holst-like considering how much he is accused of ripping of Holst.

I think you may be right

Well, it is one thing to write some Star Wars music which sounds on obvious borrowing from Mars, and an entirely different task (one utterly beyond John Williams, I should think) to write an original piece — never one of Williams's strong talents — which were convincingly similar to Holst.

The "rip-off" of Mars is axiomatic but untrue. There is no direct motivic borrowing (and why should there be, when Williams is obviously a talented tunesmith in his own right?). It would be correct to say, however, that the Planets as a whole is a sourcebook for much of Williams's orchestral style, particularly when he is scoring sci-fi or fantasy films.

[mc ukrneal]

I suggest we take a John William discussion about the Planets to the John Williams thread, where the debate has been inflamed, passionate, and downright dirty at times and leave this thread in relative bliss.

[Karl Henning]

Herrmann's recording was reissued on CD by Australian Eloquence. It's a great set, except that Fennell's tempos for the military suites are too fast.

Well, Freddy was apt to want to show off how well they could play.