Holst's The Planets

[eyeresist]

I too wasn't impressed by Steinberg. Like Lloyd-Jones, I think he's too fast and doesn't dig in enough. That dry bright recording probably doesn't help.

[Elgarian]

I too wasn't impressed by Steinberg. Like Lloyd-Jones, I think he's too fast and doesn't dig in enough. That dry bright recording probably doesn't help.

Yes you're right, that's another relevant factor - I forgot to mention the recording quality. It seems to lack weight, and in such a way that the lightweightness and the character of the top end become quite wearing after a while. I can imagine some folk would enjoy the rapid pacing, but I find myself unable to adjust to it and keep wanting to say 'Slow down!'

[Elgarian]

Glad to see my recommendation of Bernstein is still the one you're preferring after hearing many others.

It is truly outstanding; though I've also come to admire the Boult more and more as time has gone on. Together they make a fascinating pair of brilliant alternate readings.

There's a marked contrast between this Planets experiment and my similar Scheherazade quest. Scheherazade seems to invite a much wider range of different 'takes', and there are a lot of recordings of distinction that I found myself responding to positively, for the sheer quiddity of each. I'm delighted now to have so many different approaches to it. With the Planets though, I've so far gathered together about 8 CDs, only two of which I'll probably listen to in the future when the experiment is done.

[mc ukrneal]

Yes you're right, that's another relevant factor - I forgot to mention the recording quality. It seems to lack weight, and in such a way that the lightweightness and the character of the top end become quite wearing after a while. I can imagine some folk would enjoy the rapid pacing, but I find myself unable to adjust to it and keep wanting to say 'Slow down!'

Then Boult is for you based on your description, a version I DETEST because it is so SLOW!!! I'm always thinking - 'stop dragging!' (total opposite of your reaction). It's a version that actually made me angry because I felt it lacked any spirit. Steinberg is violent and relentless (and breathless) in Mars, and I think perfect in nearly every way. I don't understand your Jupiter comment though. Steinberg's Jupiter personifies Bacchanalia in my opinion.

[Elgarian]

Then Boult is for you based on your description, a version I DETEST because it is so SLOW!!! I'm always thinking - 'stop dragging!' (total opposite of your reaction). It's a version that actually made me angry because I felt it lacked any spirit.

I think we're lucky that there's enough of a range of recordings available to permit all of us to have a version of The Planets we can be inspired by. However (in view of the fact that in writing about differences I (we?) tend to exaggerate them), I'd like to stress that there are NONE of these recordings that I detest. Even dislike would be too strong a word. The worst I could say about most of them is that they are merely 'alright', with the possible exceptions of Dutoit (whose approach I can't engage with sufficiently to say anything sensible about it), and Steinberg (who feels too fast, lightweight, and a bit flimsy). But this, here, is me, and that, over there, is you, and we clearly have very different expectations from this music. I'm not attempting to make recommendations for anyone else based on my listening; I'm merely trying to arrive at the recordings that interest and excite me most, and reporting on my progress.

I don't understand your Jupiter comment though. Steinberg's Jupiter personifies Bacchanalia in my opinion.

My comment related specifically to the 'hymn' section. For me (I speak for no one else), the contrast between the almost solemn nobility of the hymn section and the joviality of the bacchanal is important. There's no shortage of bacchanalian jollity in Steinberg (I agree with you there); but to me he sounds more or less jolly all the way through; and that makes me feel as if I'm having a weirdly incomplete experience.

[Mirror Image]

It is truly outstanding; though I've also come to admire the Boult more and more as time has gone on. Together they make a fascinating pair of brilliant alternate readings.

There's a marked contrast between this Planets experiment and my similar Scheherazade quest. Scheherazade seems to invite a much wider range of different 'takes', and there are a lot of recordings of distinction that I found myself responding to positively, for the sheer quiddity of each. I'm delighted now to have so many different approaches to it. With the Planets though, I've so far gathered together about 8 CDs, only two of which I'll probably listen to in the future when the experiment is done.

I need to listen to Boult's again. So did you say you liked the Andrew Davis/BBC Symphony recording (coupled with Egdon Heath)? I couldn't remember your comments regarding this recording. Andrew Davis' first recording (w/ the Toronto Symphony) is also good. You might want to check it out. Davis' third recording, on Chandos with the BBC Philharmonic, I found less satisfying. Another Planets you may want to checkout that I remember enjoying was Yoel Levi and the Atlanta Symphony Orchestra on Telarc.

[Elgarian]

I need to listen to Boult's again. So did you say you liked the Andrew Davis/BBC Symphony recording (coupled with Egdon Heath)?

The Davis was fine, along with the other fine performances; but none of them quite manage to persuade me that I need to own a lot of different recordings. So far, it seems that two may be enough, and the rest merely a luxury.

I think (when and if Karajan arrives - my only currently outstanding order), I'll probably draw a line, and instead of acquiring more, I'll revisit the ones I have. I would, for example, be delighted if I could become more receptive to Steinberg on repeated listening. (Boult, after all, grew in stature the more I listened.) I also want to check out my vague feeling that Bernstein is the only conductor who injects a sparkling vitality into Venus (without losing its dreamy beauty); I want to listen to the other Venuses again to see if I'm missing something in their interpretations. That sort of thing.

[DavidRoss]

And every so often I'm delightfully surprised by DavidRoss. Good to see you, Dave - been a while. )

Aw, shucks, Alan....

I always liked Gardiner's recording--as I recall, Mars is inexorable rather than menacing--a valid take in my book. I must be due for a listen (bet it's been more than a year!), for I remember every movement is quite good.

[Mirror Image]

I wonder how Elgarian's Holst The Planets exploration is going? Please fill us in!

[Elgarian]

I wonder how Elgarian's Holst The Planets exploration is going? Please fill us in!

Well, I've had a lot less time to devote to the project recently. But my order for the Karajan/Vienna never arrived (money refunded) and at the moment I can't find a really cheap alternative copy.

What I did do however, yesterday, was pull a chair into the garden with a cup of tea, and listen to Bernstein again, on phones, after a longish gap. It was stupendous, and I must say, really, I don't expect ever to find a version that thrills me more than this. It has everything I want, really - a devastating Mars, a calm yet exquisite Venus (which completely avoids the 'plodding' tempo that many seem unable to escape), a scintillating Mercury, a Jupiter that straddles magnificently between joviality and nobility (with the hymn section achieving something close to Elgarian nobilmente) ... and so on. Through all this is a most satisfying weight of sound and texture, against which those bits that need to sparkle, sparkle.

So I'm settling down more firmly to what I said earlier: Bernstein and Boult between them cover all my bases when it comes to the Planets, and I'm not really in a hurry to go further right now. (I'm getting close to being a bit Planeted-out for the present.)

[mc ukrneal]

(I'm getting close to being a bit Planeted-out for the present.)

I find I must watch my intake as well. Isn't it strange how you can listen to some pieces and they never seem to tire you (no matter how often you listen) and others can be fatiguing after a listen or two? When I actually performed this (Mars) for performance, I couldn't listen to it for nearly a year afterwards. Yet, something like his Military Suites, well I can listen to that over and over and never be tired of hearing it. Human beings are an odd sort...

[Elgarian]

I find I must watch my intake as well. Isn't it strange how you can listen to some pieces and they never seem to tire you (no matter how often you listen) and others can be fatiguing after a listen or two? When I actually performed this (Mars) for performance, I couldn't listen to it for nearly a year afterwards. Yet, something like his Military Suites, well I can listen to that over and over and never be tired of hearing it. Human beings are an odd sort...

Exactly so. I can't reliably predict, though, how it will go. I was amazed by how many different Scheherazades I could listen to, and it never wore thin, and still hasn't. The Planets definitely needs a rest now, I think, though I've listened to far fewer versions. Like you, I have no notion of what quality it is that gives rise to the listening fatigue syndrome.

[TheGSMoeller]

Is Tomita not getting any love? Let's put an end to that.
(doesn't really start until 3:07 on the video)


http://www.youtube.com/v/hsZqXdPZb8s

[Mirror Image]

Well, I've had a lot less time to devote to the project recently. But my order for the Karajan/Vienna never arrived (money refunded) and at the moment I can't find a really cheap alternative copy.

What I did do however, yesterday, was pull a chair into the garden with a cup of tea, and listen to Bernstein again, on phones, after a longish gap. It was stupendous, and I must say, really, I don't expect ever to find a version that thrills me more than this. It has everything I want, really - a devastating Mars, a calm yet exquisite Venus (which completely avoids the 'plodding' tempo that many seem unable to escape), a scintillating Mercury, a Jupiter that straddles magnificently between joviality and nobility (with the hymn section achieving something close to Elgarian nobilmente) ... and so on. Through all this is a most satisfying weight of sound and texture, against which those bits that need to sparkle, sparkle.

So I'm settling down more firmly to what I said earlier: Bernstein and Boult between them cover all my bases when it comes to the Planets, and I'm not really in a hurry to go further right now. (I'm getting close to being a bit Planeted-out for the present.)

I'm happy to hear that my Bernstein recommendation took top honors with you. On the other hand, I completely understand what you mean when you said, and this is paraphrasing, that you're burned out on Planets right now. This is the very reason why I don't play The Planets that much and I really save for special occasions. It's not one of my favorite works of all-time and it's not even in my top 20 favorites, but it is a piece that I imagine myself wearing out pretty easily, which is, again, why I seldom play it. I do hope you continue to enjoy the work because I've certainly enjoyed keeping up with your discoveries.

[Elgarian]

It's not one of my favorite works of all-time and it's not even in my top 20 favorites, but it is a piece that I imagine myself wearing out pretty easily, which is, again, why I seldom play it.

If I were to compile a list of lifetime favourites, Planets would be high up the list. It was one of those works that shouted, to this (then) sixteen-year-old: 'And you think the Beatles are exciting? Well, listen to this!' And listen I did, again and again and again. Enough listenings to push it permanently into my all-time chart. It's been great revisiting it now, and discovering that there's plenty of life in it yet.

Incidentally, do you know what I mean about the tendency of many performances of Venus to become a kind of solid monotonous plod? There's something about the prolonged rhythm in places that can so easily make it snoozeworthy instead of enchanting. (Boult's Venus is a snoozefest, for instance, in striking contrast to Bernstein's.)

[Karl Henning]

All my lovin' . . . .

[Mirror Image]

If I were to compile a list of lifetime favourites, Planets would be high up the list. It was one of those works that shouted, to this (then) sixteen-year-old: 'And you think the Beatles are exciting? Well, listen to this!' And listen I did, again and again and again. Enough listenings to push it permanently into my all-time chart. It's been great revisiting it now, and discovering that there's plenty of life in it yet.

Incidentally, do you know what I mean about the tendency of many performances of Venus to become a kind of solid monotonous plod? There's something about the prolonged rhythm in places that can so easily make it snoozeworthy instead of enchanting. (Boult's Venus is a snoozefest, for instance, in striking contrast to Bernstein's.)

I guess I should have reemphasized my point from above. I think The Planets is one of the great orchestral scores of the 20th Century, but there's a danger, for me, in playing it too much. I want to come to this work fresh each time I hear it which is why I don't listen to it much. That said, it's not in my top 20 for the simple reason that it doesn't touch me like so many other works do. I vastly prefer Holst's Egdon Heath to The Planets not because I think one is better than the other, but because I'm more touched by the emotional content in Egdon Heath. Does this make any sense?

[Elgarian]

I guess I should have reemphasized my point from above. I think The Planets is one of the great orchestral scores of the 20th Century, but there's a danger, for me, in playing it too much. I want to come to this work fresh each time I heard it which is why I don't listen to it much. That said, it's not in my top 20 for the simple reason that it doesn't touch me like so many other works do. I vastly prefer Holst's Egdon Heath to The Planets not because I think one is better than the other, but because I'm more touched by the emotional content in Egdon Heath. Does this make any sense?

Yes of course. As ever, there's the recognition of great art on the one hand, and the personal emotive response on the other. Sometimes they converge; sometimes they don't.

[brunumb]

Based on the comments in this thread I bought a copy of the NYPO/Bernstein recording.  What a surprise.  Mars was the bringer of drums, Venus the bringer of slumber and Jupiter the bringer of porridge.  I found it all rather boring.  I still prefer the Steinberg by a mile, or even kilometre.

[Mirror Image]

Based on the comments in this thread I bought a copy of the NYPO/Bernstein recording.  What a surprise.  Mars was the bringer of drums, Venus the bringer of slumber and Jupiter the bringer of porridge.  I found it all rather boring.  I still prefer the Steinberg by a mile, or even kilometre.

I find this post rather boring. Bernstein's is a classic. Steinberg can't touch Bernstein.