Holst's The Planets

Started by Elgarian, April 27, 2012, 07:07:26 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Mirror Image

Quote from: Peter Power Pop on January 03, 2015, 03:53:57 PM
I've just discovered Simon Rattle has an earlier The Planets, with the Philharmonia Orchestra. It's from 1987. (Details at Amazon.co.uk)

You can hear both Rattle versions in their entirety (entireties?) on Spotify:

Holst: The Planets, Op. 32 - Philharmonia Orchestra / Sir Simon Rattle (1987)

Holst: The Planets, Op. 32 - Berliner Philharmoniker / Sir Simon Rattle (2006)





Quote from: Peter Power Pop on January 03, 2015, 03:33:48 PM
Now I definitely want to hear the Rattle.

And now I want to hear Bernstein's as well.



     or     

No problem. You might not find Steinberg's Planets as frisky as I did. As people from the land of Americans like to say: "Your mileage may vary."

I have not heard Rattle's earlier account with the Philharmonia and seeing how good he is with the Berliners, I'm almost scared to listen to that performance out of fear that it could be better. If anything, Rattle's tempi might be a bit more on the brisk side with the Philharmonia. I'll have to investigate that recording. Thanks for all the commentary thus far, Peter. Quite interesting.

Mirror Image

Quote from: Ken B on January 03, 2015, 04:14:53 PMKarajan/Decca is the best I know of, but have not heard Rattle.

HvK/VPO is quite good indeed, but it doesn't top my two favorites, but you probably already knew this. :)

Peter Power Pop

Quote from: Mirror Image on January 03, 2015, 05:02:36 PM
I have not heard Rattle's earlier account with the Philharmonia and seeing how good he is with the Berliners, I'm almost scared to listen to that performance out of fear that it could be better. If anything, Rattle's tempi might be a bit more on the brisk side with the Philharmonia. I'll have to investigate that recording. Thanks for all the commentary thus far, Peter. Quite interesting.

You're entirely welcome, Mirror Image.

And now it's Interview-with-Simon-Rattle time!

https://www.youtube.com/v/Tv6Yd1uanbM

Ken B

Quote from: Mirror Image on January 03, 2015, 05:04:17 PM
HvK/VPO is quite good indeed, but it doesn't top my two favorites, but you probably already knew this. :)

Yes, I can usually predict your errors John.  :laugh: >:D :P :laugh: >:D ;)


Mirror Image


Mirror Image

Quote from: Peter Power Pop on January 03, 2015, 05:05:55 PM
You're entirely welcome, Mirror Image.

And now it's Interview-with-Simon-Rattle time!

https://www.youtube.com/v/Tv6Yd1uanbM

I remember seeing this interview years ago. It's a novel idea putting the more contemporary works alongside of The Planets, but I got the feeling that it's kind of like putting a bunch of musically unrelated paintings next to a more well-known Van Gogh painting and expecting these other artists' paintings to somehow compliment it when all it really does is create a distraction. Rattle should get a pat on the back for programming an interesting line-up of works, but anything can look good on paper. I believe he should stuck with a Holst program and record a work like "Egdon Heath" or "Beni Mora" to show a different side of the composer.

Peter Power Pop

#246
Quote from: Mirror Image on January 03, 2015, 06:01:12 PM
I remember seeing this interview years ago. It's a novel idea putting the more contemporary works alongside of The Planets, but I got the feeling that it's kind of like putting a bunch of musically unrelated paintings next to a more well-known Van Gogh painting and expecting these other artists' paintings to somehow compliment it when all it really does is create a distraction. Rattle should get a pat on the back for programming an interesting line-up of works, but anything can look good on paper. I believe he should stuck with a Holst program and record a work like "Egdon Heath" or "Beni Mora" to show a different side of the composer.

Yes indeed.

St. Paul's Suite seems to be The Planets' coupling of choice for most record companies:

https://www.youtube.com/v/pRRtmrjWsPE

For something to go with The Planets, I'm with you Mirror Image. I think Beni Mora would be ideal coming after Neptune:

https://www.youtube.com/v/jrn2LUQ3Vjc

Egdon Heath even more so:

https://www.youtube.com/v/2kDF3AG3Gp4

Mirror Image

Quote from: Peter Power Pop on January 03, 2015, 06:24:33 PM
Yes indeed.

St. Paul's Suite seems to be The Planets' coupling of choice for most record companies:

https://www.youtube.com/v/pRRtmrjWsPE

For something to go with The Planets, I'm with you Mirror Image. I think Beni Mora would be ideal coming after Neptune:

https://www.youtube.com/v/jrn2LUQ3Vjc

Egdon Heath even more so:

https://www.youtube.com/v/2kDF3AG3Gp4

I'm drooling at the very thought of Rattle conducting Beni Mora or Egdon Heath with the Berliners. I really wish he would get back to conducting more British music. His somewhat neglect of his own country's music is completely dumbfounding. Imagine what Rattle could do in Elgar's symphonies or even more of a stretch RVW's symphonies. Oh, the possibilities!!!

mc ukrneal

Quote from: Peter Power Pop on January 03, 2015, 01:46:19 PM
I haven't heard the Rattle version yet. I'm interested in hearing what Simon and the Berliners do with The Planets.

The Steinberg version is highly regarded, but for me it's a little too zippy. It's a fairly breathless reading, and one that I find it exciting, but the problem for me is that it doesn't allow me to linger on anything. I might want to savour a certain part of the suite, but Steinberg will say, "No, there's no time, we must keep moving." Everything seems to be treated in such a brisk manner that I keep wanting to say "Billy! Relax, enjoy!". The timings might indicate that, tempo-wise, it's a fairly average reading, but it all just feels so fast.

This is The Planets to listen to if you've had too much coffee.

Here's his Mars:

https://www.youtube.com/v/PlHn90j2Ri4
Bliss! Pure Bliss! I find that most composers linger FAR too long - So much so that the piece becomes a snoozefest (think Boult, which may mean you would like his - but don't blame me! :) ). I could listen to this over and over and over (and I have) and still love it.

I've played this in a marching band and a symphonic winds group. It's a challenge to get your head around the 5/4 time the first time you play it. I think we spent the first 1-2 rehearsals just trying to feel the beat.
Be kind to your fellow posters!!

Peter Power Pop

#249
Quote from: mc ukrneal on January 03, 2015, 06:42:25 PMBliss! Pure Bliss! I find that most composers linger FAR too long - So much so that the piece becomes a snoozefest (think Boult, which may mean you would like his - but don't blame me! :) ). ...

I must admit I'm not much of a Boultian. I know he's highly regarded by the English classical musical fraternity, but I'm afraid my ears don't hear the justification for that highly-regarded-ness. (I wouldn't mind borrowing the ears of a Boult fan – then I could hear what they hear, and say to myself: "Ah, that's why he's great!")

Quote from: mc ukrneal on January 03, 2015, 06:42:25 PM... I could listen to this over and over and over (and I have) and still love it.

Excellent.

Considering you like your Planets zippy, I can thoroughly recommend Zubin Mehta's 1971 recording with the Los Angeles Philharmonic (not the later 1990 one with the New York Philharmonic). It has energy to spare:

Spotify:
Holst: The Planets, Op. 32 - Los Angeles Philharmonic / Zubin Mehta (1971)

Here's Mehta's 1971 Mars:

https://www.youtube.com/v/hf3Ra1Rwopg

Quote from: mc ukrneal on January 03, 2015, 06:42:25 PMI've played this in a marching band and a symphonic winds group. It's a challenge to get your head around the 5/4 time the first time you play it. I think we spent the first 1-2 rehearsals just trying to feel the beat.

It's tricky alright.

Mirror Image

Quote from: Peter Power Pop on January 03, 2015, 07:10:47 PM
I must admit I'm not much of a Boultian. I know he's highly regarded by the English classical musical fraternity, but I'm afraid my ears don't hear the justification for that highly-regarded-ness. (I wouldn't mind borrowing the ears of a Boult fan – then I could hear what they hear, and say to myself: "Ah, that's why he's great!")

+1

I never could get aboard the Boult express, although I do enjoy some of his RVW recordings, but, again, like I've been saying in another thread about his Elgar, he's just too mannered and refined for my tastes. I like a conductor who can let their hair down a bit so to speak.

vandermolen

#251
Quote from: Mirror Image on January 03, 2015, 07:23:58 PM
+1

I never could get aboard the Boult express, although I do enjoy some of his RVW recordings, but, again, like I've been saying in another thread about his Elgar, he's just too mannered and refined for my tastes. I like a conductor who can let their hair down a bit so to speak.

The old Decca Boult Vaughan Williams Symphony 6 is unrivalled in my view. Boult has quite a coldly dispassionate view which ideally suits this work, which is maybe why he is ideal in Saturn and Neptune from The Planets. I can understand that Boult is not to everyone's taste but having seen the old boy conduct a number of times in my youth I have a nostalgic affection for him. He was very un-showy as a conductor and rather self-effacing which I rather admired. For all its great beauty Vaughan Williams's music has an oddly impersonal quality to it which, IMHO suits Boults's approach. I liked his objective Sibelius recordings too and his later recording of the great Moeran Symphony on Lyrita.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Mirror Image

Quote from: vandermolen on January 04, 2015, 04:53:18 AM
The old Decca Boult Vaughan Williams Symphony 6 is unrivalled in my view. Boult has quite a coldly dispassionate view which ideally suits this work, which is maybe why he is ideal in Saturn and Neptune from The Planets. I can understand that Boult is not to everyone's taste but having seen the old boy conduct a number of times in my youth I have a nostalgic affection for him. He was very un-showy as a conductor and rather self-effacing which I rather admired. For all its great beauty Vaughan Williams's music has an oddly impersonal quality to it which, IMHO suits Boults's approach. I liked his objective Sibelius recordings too and his later recording of the great Moeran Symphony on Lyrita.

We definitely agree on his RVW performances. I've always enjoyed them and his stereo set on EMI is what launched my ears into the RVW's musical world for the first time. He's certainly a great conductor. No question about it.


vandermolen

#253
Quote from: Mirror Image on January 04, 2015, 06:35:30 AM
We definitely agree on his RVW performances. I've always enjoyed them and his stereo set on EMI is what launched my ears into the RVW's musical world for the first time. He's certainly a great conductor. No question about it.

Yes, the EMI LP set was my way into the VW symphonies as a 17 year old but the Decca No 6 was the initial revelation for me John.

Back to the Planets, I always rather liked the Steinberg DGG recording as well as Sargent's CFP recording. Bernard Herrmann's more controversial version is also a fine one in my view.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Peter Power Pop

Quotehttps://www.youtube.com/v/PlHn90j2Ri4

Quote from: mc ukrneal on January 03, 2015, 06:42:25 PM
Bliss! Pure Bliss! I find that most composers linger FAR too long - So much so that the piece becomes a snoozefest (think Boult, which may mean you would like his - but don't blame me! :) ). I could listen to this over and over and over (and I have) and still love it.

I've played this in a marching band and a symphonic winds group. It's a challenge to get your head around the 5/4 time the first time you play it. I think we spent the first 1-2 rehearsals just trying to feel the beat.

Seein' as you like a brisk Mars, try the one by James Levine and the Chicago Symphony Orchestra. They manage the feat of making Mars both fast and menacing:

https://www.youtube.com/v/q6HUVYQ63GY

That's another one for the Planets shopping list.

mc ukrneal

Mehta - not bad, but the rhythm seems to fluctuate at times and I didn't really like that.
Levine - very menacing indeed, with a lot of low brass and such.

As to Boult, I generally like his work, just not in the Planets.

What I love about the Steinberg is his sense of propulsion and forward driving power. The others have this, but Steinberg is on a different planet! :)
Be kind to your fellow posters!!

aukhawk

Quote from: Peter Power Pop on January 03, 2015, 07:10:47 PM
(I wouldn't mind borrowing the ears of a Boult fan – then I could hear what they hear, and say to myself: "Ah, that's why he's great!")

You maybe had to see him conduct as well, to fully 'get it'.  Hands stationary, fingers barly moving, the end of the baton maybe a couple of inches.  Add the occasional quiver of an eyelid, and that was about it.

vandermolen

#257
Quote from: aukhawk on January 05, 2015, 07:14:55 AM
You maybe had to see him conduct as well, to fully 'get it'.  Hands stationary, fingers barly moving, the end of the baton maybe a couple of inches.  Add the occasional quiver of an eyelid, and that was about it.

A brief extract:

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YRXkISjm97U

I was at this concert on October 12th 1972, 100th Anniversary of Vaughan Williams's birth.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Sergeant Rock

Quote from: vandermolen on January 04, 2015, 06:45:19 AM
Back to the Planets, I always rather liked the Steinberg DGG recordin...Bernard Herrmann's more controversial version is also a fine one in my view.

You and I are on the same page  8)

Sarge
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

Peter Power Pop

#259
Quote from: aukhawk on January 05, 2015, 07:14:55 AM
You maybe had to see him conduct as well, to fully 'get it'.  Hands stationary, fingers barely moving, the end of the baton maybe a couple of inches. Add the occasional quiver of an eyelid, and that was about it.

Quote from: vandermolen on January 05, 2015, 11:45:16 AM
A brief extract:

https://www.youtube.com/v/YRXkISjm97U

I was at this concert on October 12th 1972, 100th Anniversary of Vaughan Williams's birth.

Excellent.

Thanks for the video, vandermolen.

There's also this:

https://www.youtube.com/v/p7Nc9Wj36-4

I've always enjoyed watching Sir Adrian conduct. He's so elegant, so unostentatious, so... dapper.

For me it's a refreshingly calming antidote to, say, someone like Leonard Bernstein (a.k.a. "Mr. Emotion"), who's constantly stabbing the air with his baton ("And HERE, we PLAY with SO MUCH INTENSITY that you FEEL. EVERY. NOTE.").

Unfortunately, when I'm not watching The Urbane Mr. Boult™ is when the problems start and I'm underwhelmed with what I'm hearing.

I do like self-effacing conductors (Hello, Frans Brüggen and Herbert Blomstedt), but with Ado the Boult Man* he seems to be self-effacing to the point of not even making an effort to present the music in its best possible light. Maybe it's all that "British reserve". Who knows?

As for the man himself, I like The Boultster* very much. But his conducting does very little for me. When I listen to the music, I don't hear anything. (You know what I mean.) It reminds me of Gertrude Stein's comment, "There's no there there."


(*Yes, I know it's disrespectful to call Sir Adrian "Ado the Boult Man" and "The Boultster", but at least I didn't go with the first thing I had thought of, which was "Boulty Boy".)