Author Topic: German Baroque Music  (Read 173907 times)

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Offline 71 dB

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Re: German Baroque Music
« Reply #60 on: November 04, 2007, 12:52:46 AM »
A recommended post from erato:)


The shortlived student of Buxtehude, Nikolaus Bruhns, wrote some fine cantatas documented on this superb record:


Spatial distortion is a serious problem deteriorating headphone listening.
Crossfeeders reduce spatial distortion and make the sound more natural
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My Sound Cloud page <-- NEW track "Jazzz"

Offline Que

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Re: German Baroque Music
« Reply #61 on: November 24, 2007, 02:39:50 AM »

          click picture for link with samples.

ZELENKA: Il Serpente di bronzo / Ensemble Inégal

The music of this dramatic cantata is nice, but not as original as other works of Zelenka. Curiously one of the characters is God himself - a bass voice of course.

Very good interpretation.

This cantata by Zelenka shows how close relations between German (Germanic) and Italian baroque sometimes are. The music is basically in Italian oratorio style of the period, comparable with Scarlatti, Caldara, cantatas by Vivaldi, but also the "Italian cantatas" by Händel. This means, as Val pointed out, that this is atypical Zelenka.

Nevertheless, if taken for what it is, this is a cute piece of music which stands its ground against the composers mentioned. Colourful instrumentation and plenty of momentum. Excellent performance, so we can welcome another Czech HIP group! We'll undoubtedly hear from them more in the future.

Maybe not the greatest musical discovery of the decade, but anyone with an interest in this particular genre should not pass on this one. :)

Some quotations from reviews:
"CD J. D. Zelenka: Il serpente di bronzo – Bronze snake
It is very rare that a recording evokes at once so much of pure joy, admiration and fully pleases a lover of art with its musical “rightness” and beautiful melodies. It is great how much understanding was Zelenka – this great Czech, accorded in connection with the realization of this charming recording whose depth is the same as its beauty. This great success is above all embodied in the interpretation under the direction of Adam Viktora who accomplished to paint the wild and lonely places of Zelenka’s unique work in an excellent way with typical Czech flavour… From the singers hold our interest above all Peter Kooij, confronted with the demanding part of the angry God and the sweet tenor of the Moses prformed by Jaroslav B?ezina. Absolute discovery!"

Olivier Rouviere, Diapason, FR 2007/04

"… Oratorio Il serpente opens in electrifying manner with a chorus of angry Israelites; the music seethes with a demonic energy and drive … Adam Viktora inspires singing and playing of such breathtaking fervor that the very lives of the singers and players seem to depend on it. As already suggested, the performance of this remarkable oratorio fully lives up to the quality of the work, driven as it is by the passionate conviction of Viktora’s direction ...There are people, particularly those whose blinkered vision extends little further than the 19th century, who try to tell us there are no hidden masterpieces remaining to be rediscovered. Il serpente di bronzo is one work that proves them to be utterly, spectacularly wrong."
Brian Robins, Fanfare, USA, 2006/08

Q
« Last Edit: November 24, 2007, 07:48:52 AM by Que »

Offline Que

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Re: German Baroque Music
« Reply #62 on: November 30, 2007, 02:42:35 AM »

           click on picture for link to samples

Got this cheap at jpc. The music by Georg Böhm reminds me most of early keyboard works by Bach. Nice, but not as original as, say Froberger. An important attraction here is the sound of the lute-harpsichord (Lautenwerck), which is wonderful and full of character. Geoffrey Thomas is a sensible and competent player, but misses that extra imaginative approach that could have given this music just an extra edge.
Nevertheless - a very nice bargain for lovers of the lute-harpsichord! :)

Q

« Last Edit: March 21, 2009, 01:06:23 AM by Que »

Offline Josquin des Prez

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Re: German Baroque Music
« Reply #63 on: November 30, 2007, 04:18:11 PM »
Maybe not the greatest musical discovery of the decade

Zelenka is one of the better Baroque composers, superior to the over-rated Italians and all the Telemanns of the era.

I'd urge anybody to acquire his last masses, as well as his set of trio sonatas. Amazing stuff. Considering how much of his music was vaporized during the bombing of Dresden (something i read on the internetz, don't quote me on this), every new discovery could turn out to be a major one.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2007, 04:20:40 PM by Josquin des Prez »

Offline FideLeo

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Re: German Baroque Music
« Reply #64 on: November 30, 2007, 09:41:13 PM »
Zelenka is one of the better Baroque composers, superior to the over-rated Italians and all the Telemanns of the era.

The Italians and Telemann's of the era are actually underrated, given how little their stuff is known to the public.
HIP for all and all for HIP! Harpsichord for Bach, fortepiano for Beethoven and pianoforte for Brahms!

Offline 71 dB

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Re: German Baroque Music
« Reply #65 on: November 30, 2007, 10:32:12 PM »
Zelenka is one of the better Baroque composers, superior to the over-rated Italians and all the Telemanns of the era.

Sadly, I don't have anything from Zelenka (working on it!) but the clips I have heard indicate he really is much more interesting than Telemann who I find one of the most boring baroque composer (sorry Harry  :( ). Italians are overrated in the sense that Northern-Germany baroque is usually more interesting.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2007, 10:33:43 PM by 71 dB »
Spatial distortion is a serious problem deteriorating headphone listening.
Crossfeeders reduce spatial distortion and make the sound more natural
and less tiresome in headphone listening.

My Sound Cloud page <-- NEW track "Jazzz"

Offline FideLeo

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Re: German Baroque Music
« Reply #66 on: December 01, 2007, 08:13:55 PM »
They already have more exposure then what they deserve.

What proof have you got for this?  ;) 

ps. Bach and Handel both rated Telemann highly, in fact so much so they were known subscribers
to his published works.   And don't forget Bach's many transcriptions of Italian works.  (Pergolesi!)
 
« Last Edit: December 01, 2007, 08:19:31 PM by fl.traverso »
HIP for all and all for HIP! Harpsichord for Bach, fortepiano for Beethoven and pianoforte for Brahms!

Offline Josquin des Prez

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Re: German Baroque Music
« Reply #67 on: December 02, 2007, 02:03:19 AM »
What proof have you got for this?  ;) 

My ears are proof enough, and if you disagree, you are an ignorant fool.

The only truly great Italian composer after Monteverdi was Scarlatti (Domenico). Everybody else runs from decent to good, but nothing more. Vivaldi started with a lot of promise with his Opus 3 but he never progressed from there so that's his loss. Pergolesi could have been one of the greats though, had he lived longer.

Offline 71 dB

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Re: German Baroque Music
« Reply #68 on: December 02, 2007, 02:36:51 AM »
The only truly great Italian composer after Monteverdi was Scarlatti (Domenico).

Corelli?
Spatial distortion is a serious problem deteriorating headphone listening.
Crossfeeders reduce spatial distortion and make the sound more natural
and less tiresome in headphone listening.

My Sound Cloud page <-- NEW track "Jazzz"

Offline Que

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Re: German Baroque Music
« Reply #69 on: December 02, 2007, 02:50:14 AM »
I'd urge anybody to acquire his last masses, as well as his set of trio sonatas. Amazing stuff.

Any suggestions on recordings for the Zelenka masses?
BTW the site I linked in the post on "Il serpente" also contains a new recording of some sacred works:



And guys, please stay on topic (here is the thread on Italians: Italian Baroque Music - beyond Vivaldi).

Q
« Last Edit: December 02, 2007, 08:00:00 PM by Que »

Offline Josquin des Prez

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Re: German Baroque Music
« Reply #70 on: December 02, 2007, 11:37:24 AM »
Any suggestions on recordings for the Zelenka masses?

I have a couple of the recordings made by Frieder Bernius, and they are very good, but i'm not qualified to answer this question since i haven't been able to explore all that was available (lack of cash more then anything).

Either way, this are his last masses: Missa Dei Patris, Missa Dei Filii (left unfinished), Missa Sanctissime trinitatis, Missa Omnia Sanctorum, and Missa Votiva. The Requiem in c minor is also among his better works, though not as good as those masses.

For the Trio sonatas, i have the second set made by Holliger which is very good, but it's the only one i heard so who knows what else is out there.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2007, 11:48:36 AM by Josquin des Prez »

Offline Josquin des Prez

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Re: German Baroque Music
« Reply #71 on: December 02, 2007, 11:37:58 AM »
Corelli?

He's on a rank with Vivaldi.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2007, 12:14:01 PM by Josquin des Prez »

Offline Que

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Re: German Baroque Music
« Reply #72 on: December 02, 2007, 07:58:54 PM »
I have a couple of the recordings made by Frieder Bernius, and they are very good, but i'm not qualified to answer this question since i haven't been able to explore all that was available (lack of cash more then anything).

I am familiar with Frieder Bernius, IMO a really excellent choral conductor - sounds just the man for the job!
Thanks   :) - looked the recordings up, will check these out.



Anyone else have suggestions on Zelenka's masses?  :)

Q

Offline 71 dB

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Re: German Baroque Music
« Reply #73 on: December 03, 2007, 03:17:32 AM »
I hate it how neglected German middle baroque is. For reasons I don't fully understand Renaissance/early baroque is "popular" as is late baroque. Many are not interested what happened between Schütz and J.S. Bach. So much happened during this middle baroque era and for me it's one of the most interesting periods in music history.

Buxtehude is recognised but for example Rosenmüller, Tunder, Kuhnau, Weckmann aren't enough. Recordings with their works are rare and go OOP fast (available copies cost fortunes). Record companies do not believe people would buy Tunder's music. Well, I buy. Most of the CDs released are themed "German 17th century church music" compilations that makes the composers seem unimportant and the music a curiosity: "nothing important happened between Schütz and Bach but if you want to hear the music it sounds like this".

It would be great to buy complate sets of these composers, everything that they ever composed and survived to us. Systematic study of this music is almost impossible. What we hear is random samples.

Ricercar released lots of this stuff over 10 years ago but they went OOP immediately, just before I got into classical music.  :'(
Spatial distortion is a serious problem deteriorating headphone listening.
Crossfeeders reduce spatial distortion and make the sound more natural
and less tiresome in headphone listening.

My Sound Cloud page <-- NEW track "Jazzz"

Offline FideLeo

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Re: German Baroque Music
« Reply #74 on: December 03, 2007, 06:35:28 AM »
I hate it how neglected German middle baroque is. For reasons I don't fully understand Renaissance/early baroque is "popular" as is late baroque. Many are not interested what happened between Schütz and J.S. Bach. So much happened during this middle baroque era and for me it's one of the most interesting periods in music history.


Just like there are people who believe no Italian baroque composer existed between Monteverdi and Domenico Scarlatti.  They haven't heard it, that's all.   ;)

HIP for all and all for HIP! Harpsichord for Bach, fortepiano for Beethoven and pianoforte for Brahms!

Offline 71 dB

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Re: German Baroque Music
« Reply #75 on: December 03, 2007, 07:10:33 AM »
They haven't heard it, that's all.   ;)

Of course they haven't because nobody is marketing that music to them.

I was lucky the classic FM radio in Finland was very good when I started listening to classical music. I was introduced to all kind of unknown stuff. Later the radio station got new owners and new crappy style. Now it's favorite opera arias and other "velvet" crap.
Spatial distortion is a serious problem deteriorating headphone listening.
Crossfeeders reduce spatial distortion and make the sound more natural
and less tiresome in headphone listening.

My Sound Cloud page <-- NEW track "Jazzz"

PerfectWagnerite

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Re: German Baroque Music
« Reply #76 on: December 03, 2007, 08:21:41 AM »
I hate it how neglected German middle baroque is. For reasons I don't fully understand Renaissance/early baroque is "popular" as is late baroque. Many are not interested what happened between Schütz and J.S. Bach. So much happened during this middle baroque era and for me it's one of the most interesting periods in music history.


I forsee a great career for you in the academia should you choose to study this period in extreme detail. That is not a joke.

Offline Josquin des Prez

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Re: German Baroque Music
« Reply #77 on: December 03, 2007, 11:39:15 AM »
They haven't heard it, that's all.   ;)

I heard it. Wasn't impressed. Perhaps i'm missing something?

Offline Que

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Re: German Baroque Music
« Reply #78 on: December 03, 2007, 11:57:14 AM »
Ricercar released lots of this stuff over 10 years ago but they went OOP immediately, just before I got into classical music.  :'(

71 dB, the good news is that Ricercar - now a subsidiairy of Alpha - is busy reissuing:



(pictures are linked)

Q

Offline 71 dB

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Re: German Baroque Music
« Reply #79 on: December 03, 2007, 11:57:29 AM »
I heard it. Wasn't impressed. Perhaps i'm missing something?

Exactly what did you hear? Perhaps you where not impressed because you don't understand what the music is about? Perhaps you didn't put things in the context?
Spatial distortion is a serious problem deteriorating headphone listening.
Crossfeeders reduce spatial distortion and make the sound more natural
and less tiresome in headphone listening.

My Sound Cloud page <-- NEW track "Jazzz"