Curious about choral parts of symphonies.

[Mr. Stevens Senior]

Why do composers decide to include choral parts in symphonies?  I'm curious about the canons or general thinking with this.  Is it because the composer can't rely on the music alone and has to include "narration"?

[springrite]

Why do composers decide to include choral parts in symphonies?  I'm curious about the canons or general thinking with this.  Is it because the composer can't rely on the music alone and has to include "narration"?

First and foremost, the human voice is a glorious instrument. Why leave it out?

[eyeresist]

Not all symphonies with vocals have words.

[Karl Henning]

First and foremost, the human voice is a glorious instrument. Why leave it out?

This.

[Mr. Stevens Senior]

Well I'm not too fond of it.  I thought if I could learn a bit about why composers do it, I might get over it easier.

[Gurn Blanston]

Well I'm not too fond of it.  I thought if I could learn a bit about why composers do it, I might get over it easier.

I don't care for it myself, as a general rule. There are always exceptions though; I have currently 85 versions of Beethoven's 9th Symphony, because I consider it to be the greatest piece of music in the Western Canon. Your mileage may vary....

[Karl Henning]

Well I'm not too fond of it.  I thought if I could learn a bit about why composers do it, I might get over it easier.

It was found to be successful in Beethoven's Op.125:  Full orchestra, large chorus, perhaps a solo voice strewn here or there.  It's thrilling in live performance.  For a while, then, you had some composers who wrote purely orchestral symphonies, as though the lid could just be neatly fitted back — Brahms, Schumann, e.g. — and other composers who figured that the horse was out the barn, and there was no longer any taboo about including vocal forces in a piece called a symphony — Mendelssohn, Berlioz, Liszt e.g.

[Cato]

I don't care for it myself, as a general rule. There are always exceptions though; I have currently 85 versions of Beethoven's 9th Symphony, because I consider it to be the greatest piece of music in the Western Canon. Your mileage may vary....

GASP!   

Are you married?   

[Gurn Blanston]

GASP!   

Are you married?   

Why yes, yes I am. I am a powerful force though.

[eyeresist]

Well I'm not too fond of it.  I thought if I could learn a bit about why composers do it, I might get over it easier.

I sympathise with this. If you have to pay attention to the program, it's not exactly "pure" music. You should do what I do, and just ignore the words. Fortunately most of these works aren't in English

[Madiel]

I sympathise with this. If you have to pay attention to the program, it's not exactly "pure" music. You should do what I do, and just ignore the words. Fortunately most of these works aren't in English

First time I heard my recording of Shostakovich's 13th symphony, which didn't come with a translation, I ignored the words and thought it was an okay piece of music.

SECOND time I heard it, I sat there with a text and translation that I'd found on the internet, and the passage about Anne Frank in the 1st movement sent massive tingles down my spine.

It obviously depends on the work and the text, but often if a composer has done his/her job properly, the way in which the music heightens the impact of the words is crucial to the success of the work.

[eyeresist]

It obviously depends on the work and the text, but often if a composer has done his/her job properly, the way in which the music heightens the impact of the words is crucial to the success of the work.

This I will not dispute.

[Karl Henning]

As with the Italian madrigal: the artistic combination of text and music is greater than the sum of the parts.

[(poco) Sforzando]

I don't care for it myself, as a general rule. There are always exceptions though; I have currently 85 versions of Beethoven's 9th Symphony, because I consider it to be the greatest piece of music in the Western Canon. Your mileage may vary....

Are there pieces you consider half as great for which you have 42.5 versions?

[Tapio Dmitriyevich]

Mahler#2 or RVW Antarctica without voice - no.

[Sergeant Rock]

I just heard Nielsen's "Espansiva" with a version of the Andante that substitutes clarinet and trombone for the soprano and tenor. Works surprisingly well...but I still prefer it with voices.

Sarge

[Gurn Blanston]

Are there pieces you consider half as great for which you have 42.5 versions?

Actually yes, but they aren't choral so I didn't mention them. The half, of course, is a piano reduction...

[Leon]

Although opinion is mixed, I like the choral parts of Liszt's Faust Symphony.

[Karl Henning]

I just heard Nielsen's "Espansiva" with a version of the Andante that substitutes clarinet and trombone for the soprano and tenor. Works surprisingly well...but I still prefer it with voices.

Sarge

Most curious!

[Karl Henning]

Although opinion is mixed, I like the choral parts of Liszt's Faust Symphony.

+ 1