Blind Comparison : Debussy, La Mer

Started by Discobole, May 04, 2012, 01:41:02 AM

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Opus106

Quote from: madaboutmahler on June 04, 2012, 06:31:33 AM
I love this piece SO much! :) Thanks, Discobole, really enjoying this comparison.

And thanks to this comparison, I'm beginning to like the work. :)
Regards,
Navneeth

Discobole


Brian


madaboutmahler

"Music is ... A higher revelation than all Wisdom & Philosophy"
— Ludwig van Beethoven

Discobole

#84
Here I am, sorry for the delay, I had an Abbado concert tonight :P

So, as planned, 1 version is qualified in each group. Some of the group rankings were very tight right until the end. Here are a few details and the eliminated versions :

Jersey group

Tables : http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/8087512Jersey.jpg

1. E1 ---> qualified
2. A2 ---> éliminated
3. H1 ---> éliminated


3rd : H1 - Bernard Haitink, Concertgebouworkest Amsterdam (Philips, 12/1976)


2nd : A2 - Leonard Bernstein, New York Philharmonic (Columbia/Sony, 16/10/1961)



Eastbourne group

Tables : http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/4014012East.jpg

1. C3 ---> qualified
2. B4 ---> eliminated
3. G2 ---> eliminated


3rd : G2 - Serge Baudo, London Philharmonic Orchestra (EMI, 1/1986)


2nd : B4 - Herbert von Karajan, Berliner Philharmoniker (DG, 9-10/3/1964)



Dieppe group

Tables : http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/7764612Dieppe.jpg

1. H4 ---> qualified
2. E4 ---> eliminated
3. F1 ---> eliminated


3rd : F1 - Jean Martinon, Orchestre national de l'ORTF (EMI, 1973)


2nd : E4 - Michael Tilson Thomas, Philharmonia Orchestra (CBS, 1982)



Bichain group

Tables : http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/6020832Bichain.jpg (there is a little mistake on the count of Anaxagore, actually A4 is behind D1, therefore third in the global ranking)

1. G4 ---> qualified
2. D1 ---> eliminated
3. A4 ---> eliminated


3rd : A4 - Evgueni Svetlanov, Orchestre national de France (Naïve, 25/1/2001)


2nd : D1 - Pierre Monteux, Boston Symphony Orchestra (RCA, 19/7/1954)



Paris group

Tables : http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/7627972PAris.jpg

1. D2 ---> qualified
2. C2 ---> eliminated
3. B3 ---> eliminated


3rd : B3 - Jean Fournet, Česká filharmonie (Supraphon, 27/10/1963)


2nd : C2 - Charles Dutoit, Orchestre symphonique de Montréal (Decca, 1989)



FINALISTS

C3
D2
E1
G4
H4


I'll send you the links during the day, for sure ;)

Discobole

I count the following participants for the finals, for now :

Brian
Drasko
Lisztianwagner
madaboutmahler
mc ukrneal
Opus106

But do not hesitate to join for this big final round, with 5 great and mysterious versions !

mc ukrneal

Interesting results. In particular, it looks like GMG has a different opinion when compared alone against the other forums. In particular, E1 would not have won and B4 was a clear winner on GMG (with three firsts and a second). I wonder if that is just luck (few participants) or a real trend. Still, an intriguing twist to the results.
Be kind to your fellow posters!!

Drasko

Given that both first and second round went exactly as I voted I have very little to object. 8) Some interesting titles here. I'd love to hear Svetlanov and Fournet, and one of the recordings that left Munch and Desormiere in the dust is Tilson Thomas, I've heard that years ago and have absolutely no recollection how it was.

mc ukrneal

#88
Quote from: Drasko on June 06, 2012, 12:52:19 AM
Given that both first and second round went exactly as I voted I have very little to object. 8) Some interesting titles here. I'd love to hear Svetlanov and Fournet, and one of the recordings that left Munch and Desormiere in the dust is Tilson Thomas, I've heard that years ago and have absolutely no recollection how it was.
The Svetlanov surprised me - that was not what I was expecting. I enjoyed that one in the first round. The Berntein was also a surprise, though I guess it shouldn't have been. I never associate him with this type of music, but he really has its measure in full. Alas, I didn't get a chance to listen to the MTT version...
Be kind to your fellow posters!!

Lisztianwagner

Very sorry Karajan's recording didn't go on; I'm looking forward to starting the final turn now :)
"Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire." - Gustav Mahler

madaboutmahler

What interesting results!

So it was Karajan I liked so much?!!!!! Gosh... Well, Ilaria must be pleased at least! Shame it didn't get through, it was actually my favourite out of the 9 I compared in this part of the comparison, and the only one I gave 10/10! I think I better revisit that recording!

I am also keen to get the Bernstein now which I rated very highly. Probably my favourite after the Karajan in this part of the comparison.

I'm amazed that Martinon is out as well... I'm sure I would have voted for him if I had done that group as well. ;)

Sigh... a few of the performances that I didn't like so much have made it through to the final... I am particularly excited to hear the rest of C3 and G4 though, and shall go into the others with an open mind as well. ;)
Looking forward to it, thank you, Discobole! :)
"Music is ... A higher revelation than all Wisdom & Philosophy"
— Ludwig van Beethoven

Lisztianwagner

Quote from: madaboutmahler on June 06, 2012, 03:14:51 AM
So it was Karajan I liked so much?!!!!! Gosh... Well, Ilaria must be pleased at least! Shame it didn't get through, it was actually my favourite out of the 9 I compared in this part of the comparison, and the only one I gave 10/10! I think I better revisit that recording!

Of course I am, you know the Karajan is my favourite recording of La Mer ;) Pity it has never been in my groups....
"Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire." - Gustav Mahler

mc ukrneal

Quote from: Lisztianwagner on June 06, 2012, 03:45:40 AM
Of course I am, you know the Karajan is my favourite recording of La Mer ;) Pity it has never been in my groups....
I agree - it was very good indeed (and my favorite in its group). I thought it about on par with the Bernstein - not sure which I would have picked between them. But now I don't have to! :)
Be kind to your fellow posters!!

madaboutmahler

Quote from: Lisztianwagner on June 06, 2012, 03:45:40 AM
Of course I am, you know the Karajan is my favourite recording of La Mer ;) Pity it has never been in my groups....

:D I need to listen to the recording in full again. The only thing I didn't like about it when listening to it in the comparison was that the tam tam was inaudible at the end of the first movement... ;)

Quote from: mc ukrneal on June 06, 2012, 04:33:27 AM
I agree - it was very good indeed (and my favorite in its group). I thought it about on par with the Bernstein - not sure which I would have picked between them. But now I don't have to! :)

I agree, I think the Karajan and the Bernstein were easily my favourites out of the 9 I compared for this part of the comparison!
"Music is ... A higher revelation than all Wisdom & Philosophy"
— Ludwig van Beethoven

Lisztianwagner

Quote from: mc ukrneal on June 06, 2012, 04:33:27 AM
I agree - it was very good indeed (and my favorite in its group). I thought it about on par with the Bernstein - not sure which I would have picked between them. But now I don't have to! :)
Quote from: madaboutmahler on June 06, 2012, 04:50:24 AM
:D I need to listen to the recording in full again. The only thing I didn't like about it when listening to it in the comparison was that the tam tam was inaudible at the end of the first movement... ;)

I agree, I think the Karajan and the Bernstein were easily my favourites out of the 9 I compared for this part of the comparison!

:D ;D

Bernstein's recording surprised me in a very positive way: I had never listened to it before, but I found it incredibly evocative and thrilling; the orchestral playing was outstanding, extremely powerful and involving. An excellent version, no doubt about that.
"Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire." - Gustav Mahler

Discobole

I agree with you on the Bernstein version, I was surprised myself when hearing it and could not leave it out of the contest. It is incredibly full of vigour, violence, it is colorful and lively, which is frankly quite what Debussy asks for. This version is more authentic in a way than many "French" versions (as Fournet or Baudo, even if I like those).

Karajan is a classic, and this listening showed there are good reasons for that.

I love this Svetlanov version, it is very special, I listened to it a lot during my pre-listenings, even if I already knew it well. It is unique, I think no other orchestra has ever been more intimate with this score than the ONF at this time. And the genius of Svetlanov is to offer a fresh visit of La Mer, fascinated by its every detail without losing tension (the climaxes are so powerful !). And therefore fascinating (and this orchestra was so good 10 years ago !)

It appears I didn't count Lisztianwagner correctly, actually E1 is qualified on a wider margin as he put it first, not last ! And for the same reason Bernstein is 2nd of the Jersey group, not 3rd. Haitink is last.

I'll post links tonight, probably late, coz I have another concert. Not Abbado this time but Rozhdestvensky in Shostakovich's 10th :P :P 8)

madaboutmahler

Quote from: Discobole on June 06, 2012, 07:09:57 AM
I'll post links tonight, probably late, coz I have another concert. Not Abbado this time but Rozhdestvensky in Shostakovich's 10th :P :P 8)

Sounds as if you go to quite a few good concerts then! ;) I'm actually seeing La Mer live this Sunday, Rattle conducting the Orchestra of the Age of Enlightenment. This comparison has made me even more excited about it, and will probably make me even more critical of the performance! :D

Looking forward to the final part! :) 
"Music is ... A higher revelation than all Wisdom & Philosophy"
— Ludwig van Beethoven

Lisztianwagner

Quote from: Discobole on June 06, 2012, 07:09:57 AM
It appears I didn't count Lisztianwagner correctly, actually E1 is qualified on a wider margin as he put it first, not last ! And for the same reason Bernstein is 2nd of the Jersey group, not 3rd. Haitink is last.

I'll post links tonight, probably late, coz I have another concert. Not Abbado this time but Rozhdestvensky in Shostakovich's 10th :P :P 8)

No problem, it was my fault that I didn't specify the right order; anyway thank you for your kindness :)

I'm very curios to listen to the final part and to know the results! ;D

"Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire." - Gustav Mahler

Brian

Quote from: Discobole on June 06, 2012, 07:09:57 AMNot Abbado this time but Rozhdestvensky in Shostakovich's 10th :P :P 8)

Wow, you're lucky!!

Discobole

Quote from: madaboutmahler on June 06, 2012, 07:14:30 AM
Sounds as if you go to quite a few good concerts then! ;) I'm actually seeing La Mer live this Sunday, Rattle conducting the Orchestra of the Age of Enlightenment. This comparison has made me even more excited about it, and will probably make me even more critical of the performance! :D

Quote from: Brian on June 06, 2012, 09:24:02 AM
Wow, you're lucky!!

Frankly, the season in Paris has its bad sides and I'd love to live in Berlin for music. But still, there are some good things sometimes ;)

@madaboutmahler. La Mer with the Orchestra of the Age of Enlightenment... Yes I saw this program, it was played on Monday in Paris but I didn't go (I'm more Salle Pleyel than Théâtre des Champs-Elysées, and frankly I had doubts on the orchestre in this program... But it is still interesting, and Aimard in Ravel, that should be great too)