Gielen's Mahler

[M forever]

No, the indication is by Mahler. It is also in the Kritische Gesamtausgabe. That's what I was referring to all the time.

[Bunny]

No, the indication is by Mahler. It is also in the Kritische Gesamtausgabe. That's what I was referring to all the time.

I thought you had been discussing the pause in the 3rd Symphony as you said that you preferred the break after the 1st movement rather than between any of the movements in the 2nd part. 

PerfectWagnerite suggested that I didn't care for the way the 3rd symphony was split, but the break I dislike the most is way the 2nd symphony was split up.  The 3rd beginning just after the finale of the 2nd is just plain annoying, but not egregiously so if I can jump up and stop my player.  That's why I made a copy of the 2nd symphony with the break after the 1st movement.  Unfortunately, my cd player doesn't play my dvd recordings, or I'd have the whole symphony on one disc -- with 5 minutes between the 1st and 2nd movements.

So, I guess we are all in agreement that the Gielen set took some shortcuts in the disc arrangement as well as in the packaging?  Btw, the box is butt-ugly as well!  That tone on tone grey with Rodin's Thinker more visible than Mahler's face is stupid.  the nearly invisible signature of Michael Gielen is just plain busy, and the added injury is that if you want the 10th symphony reconstruction, you have to buy the cd separately.  Hänssler should be applauded for figuring out every way to make their target audience pay far too much.

However, it's still a very good, even great cycle.  It's just overpriced -- maybe because Gielen takes his time and has stretched it into 13 cds.  Or maybe it's because David Hurwitz wrote so many of the notes for the symphonies as well as the rave reviews that they still haven't been able to pay him off yet. 

[M forever]

I thought you had been discussing the pause in the 3rd Symphony as you said that you preferred the break after the 1st movement rather than between any of the movements in the 2nd part. 

We had indeed, and while I don't think it is essential at all that the movements of the second part are actually played attacca - except for the 3rd and 4th, I think these should be played without a pause, or just a small pause as the echo of the last notes of the ending of the 3rd movement fade away -, I vastly prefer to have them on one disc so I don't have to change discs. Yes, one could get a disc changer but I don't want to have one of those (they develop meachanical problems sooner or later anyway).

PerfectWagnerite suggested that I didn't care for the way the 3rd symphony was split, but the break I dislike the most is way the 2nd symphony was split up.  The 3rd beginning just after the finale of the 2nd is just plain annoying, but not egregiously so if I can jump up and stop my player. 

You might consider upgrading - they have CD players with remote controls now! Alternatively, you could tie a string around the power plug and yank it out of the wall. Or, if the player is not far away, a thin rod with a little ball end, so you can use it as very long extended finger and reach the "stop" button on the player.

[Bunny]

We had indeed, and while I don't think it is essential at all that the movements of the second part are actually played attacca - except for the 3rd and 4th, I think these should be played without a pause, or just a small pause as the echo of the last notes of the ending of the 3rd movement fade away -, I vastly prefer to have them on one disc so I don't have to change discs. Yes, one could get a disc changer but I don't want to have one of those (they develop meachanical problems sooner or later anyway).

You might consider upgrading - they have CD players with remote controls now! Alternatively, you could tie a string around the power plug and yank it out of the wall. Or, if the player is not far away, a thin rod with a little ball end, so you can use it as very long extended finger and reach the "stop" button on the player.

I've got a great player with a remote control, (actually there are three players, dedicated cd, universal dvd/sacd, and the new bluray player) and it's actually programmable too.  The remote is so high end that I álways push a button that seems to do nothing because it's been programmed for more than one component.  I also tend to put down the remote in random places after putting in the cd, and then can't get to it in time.  Then there's the problem of picking the correct remote as I have remotes for about 6 or 7 different components along with that master remote with the absurd color screen which takes so much time to scroll through all of the menus that the 1st movement of the 3rd could be half over before I can figure out which menu the player is on.  Easier to just jump up and stop the playback!  It's also better for the waistline, and gets a new cd in the player that much faster. 

That string around the plug is sounding very attractive!  Oops! can't use the string because everything is plugged into that absurdly expensive panamax ac regulator.  Rats!

[mjwal]

Perfect Wagnerite & others - Mahler did not write the pause in the score of the 3rd but in a letter to Richard Strauss he said it was absolutely necessary to have a 10 minute break after the 1st movement; Gielen himself in his book Mahler im Gespräch says he wants a short break there "to digest it" and for the choir to come on, but 10 minutes is too much, people would start talking about other things etc. Sounds reasonable.

[PerfectWagnerite]

Perfect Wagnerite & others - Mahler did not write the pause in the score of the 3rd but in a letter to Richard Strauss he said it was absolutely necessary to have a 10 minute break after the 1st movement; Gielen himself in his book Mahler im Gespräch says he wants a short break there "to digest it" and for the choir to come on, but 10 minutes is too much, people would start talking about other things etc. Sounds reasonable.

What sounds reasonable? The 10 minute break?

[Symphonien]

What sounds reasonable? The 10 minute break?

I'm presuming by the context of what he said that he meant Gielen's idea that there should be a short break, but for less than 10 minutes sounds reasonable.

[M forever]

Perfect Wagnerite & others - Mahler did not write the pause in the score of the 3rd but in a letter to Richard Strauss he said it was absolutely necessary to have a 10 minute break after the 1st movement; Gielen himself in his book Mahler im Gespräch says he wants a short break there "to digest it" and for the choir to come on, but 10 minutes is too much, people would start talking about other things etc. Sounds reasonable.

I don't have the score here for reference, but I am almost completely sure that it does say that in the Kritische Gesamtausgabe score, like PW said, only in German, of course. What score do you have?

[mjwal]

I don't have a score - I was going by what Michael Gielen says in the book. Perhaps Gielen did not have the Kr.Gesamtausgabe when he said those things (pub.2002).  Of course I meant in my mail that Gielen's idea of a short pause sounded reasonable. I am not a musicologist and merely wished to transmit G.'s thoughts on the subject. For all I know the presence of such an indication in the above edition, if it is there, may be a result of the editors reading that letter to Strauss, since it clearly was not in older editions.

[DavidRoss]

So even with $25 for shipping the price is half what Amazon's charging.  But do I really need another Mahler cycle? 

So it was almost 4 years ago that I resisted shelling out something like $60 (with shipping) to buy the complete Gielen cycle. Last night, after the second time through his Mahler 8th via Mog in the past couple of weeks, I pulled the trigger on Gielen's 8th -- making it the tenth and last of the numbered symphonies in this cycle that I've acquired, and for considerably more than $60!

Via Mog at least, Gielen's 8th is less bombastic, more lyrical, and--not surprisingly--more transparent than most other recordings I've heard, bringing out orchestration usually overwhelmed by choral bombast in Part 1. I might finally end up liking this symphony after all!