Masses in Classical Era Austria

Started by Gurn Blanston, June 10, 2012, 05:02:51 PM

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Karl Henning

Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Florestan

Fascinating topic, Gurn!

Joining the debate from the point of view of an Eastern Orthodox Christian, I tend to side with those who viewed which suspicion the practice of intermingling secular and liturgical music in the specific context of a mass offered in church or chapel. The whole Orthodox philosophy of mass (liturgy) is completely alien and outright hostile not only to such innovations but even to instrumental music being used during the office. The Orthodox mass is solely and completely vocal and its setting and actions have been prescribed and codified at least since St. John Chrysostomos. If you go to a mass in Bucharest, Belgrade, Moscow or Athens you'll see and hear exactly the same melodies, words (in vernacular of course), gestures and ritual acts as you could have seen and heard 1,000 years ago in the Agia Sophia cathedral in Constantinople. Very little, if anything, has been changed, removed or added ever since. I recommend anyone to go to an Orthodox mass - it really is something very different from what Catholics and Protestants are accustomed with. Rachmaninoff's Liturgy of St. John Chrysostomos and All Night Vigil give a very good idea of what is all about but when the music is performed in a church, surrounded by icons and strong incense smell it can turn into something mystical even for non-religious people (I had two Spanish guests, not quite religious, at my wedding and they were completely overwhelmed and spellbound by the office).

That being said, let's not forget that the Austrian Empire has been the champion and pillar of Counter-Reformation - and it is exactly the CR that introduced "pomp and circumstance" into the mass and not only the mass. The church architecture after the Council of Trent was very different from its predecessor and anyone who has seen the Baroque churches and monasteries of Bavaria and Austria can attest to that. Just google "Ettal" for an extreme example of Baroque sophistication. I would say (just a personal opinion, feel free to criticize or demolish it :) ) that already prior to the advent of "Classicism" the purity and austerity of mass had been corrupted by the (admittedly well-intentioned) decision of the highest ecclesiastical authorities to overwhelm the common people with a lavishing display of paintings, statues, gold, silver and pompous music. One has only to compare Palestrina's masses with those of Biber or Caldara to hear soundworlds which are galaxies apart.

So the "Classical" practice of introducing symphonic and concertante intermezzos during the mass was just the latest (and logical) development in a trend that started 200 years ago. Now IMHO, from a purely aesthetical point of view it might have been quite an experience to hear such a mass in a lavishly decorated church or chapel. But when it comes to the spiritual part which is, after all, the essential part and significance of mass - I have very strong doubts that they achieved their intended purpose. But then again as I said in the introducing paragraph I come from a very different religious background regarding mass and church office. My take on the musical settings of the Catholic Mass by famous or not so famous composers is that they are splendid statements of personal faith and/or craftsmanship (the two are not always overlapped) but their spiritual and religious value is limited to "a happy few". I listen to them with pleasure and even delight in some cases but I cannot say that I have the same religious experience as if hearing a true mass in a church.

Finally I would like to say just this (with apologies to any Roman Catholic I might inadvertently offend): I would take anytime of day and night a "Classical" Mass over a Conciliar Mass (post Vatican II Council) which is not only devoid of any spiritual experience but also aesthetically and theologically offensive.

These are my very sincere and honest two cents on the topic, given from the point of view of both an active listener and an Eastern Orthodox Christian. It is not my intention to derail the thread or to offend anyone.

Every kind of music is good, except the boring kind. — Rossini

Karl Henning

Quote from: Florestan on June 21, 2012, 06:07:30 AM
Finally I would like to say just this (with apologies to any Roman Catholic I might inadvertently offend): I would take anytime of day and night a "Classical" Mass over a Conciliar Mass (post Vatican II Council) which is not only devoid of any spiritual experience but also aesthetically and theologically offensive.

Even over the Bernstein? (Just kidding.)

(I've not yet brought myself to listen to the Bernstein Mass. This week doesn't look like Lenny's week, either . . . .)
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Leon

Quote from: karlhenning on June 21, 2012, 07:31:55 AM
Even over the Bernstein? (Just kidding.)

(I've not yet brought myself to listen to the Bernstein Mass. This week doesn't look like Lenny's week, either . . . .)


I heard the Bernstein Mass when it first came out - a fantastic time, the early '70s - and thought it was a lot of fun with some moving passages.  I have not gone back to it since then.  It never struck me as a "serious" work, but part of that period's flirtation with popularizing religion, (Godspell and Jesus Christ Superstar also appeared in 1971).  It also seemed to be Bernstein trying to establish his street cred with the "younger generation".

Might be a good time to listen to it again and see how it strikes me.

:)

Gurn Blanston

Florestan, delighted you decided to join us.

I like many of the points you made here, although especially the fact that the full flowering of the 'decorated mass' (as I think of it) did not occur out of thin air, but rather it was the culmination of decades of growth in that direction.

I have never been to an Orthodox Mass, it sounds interesting. I think that the Roman Mass was very hesitant to move towards using instruments also, but they eventually overcame that. But even today, there is only one 'approved' sacred instrument, which is the organ. Everything else is a special case. In Austrian culture, the range of instruments used is a little as 2 violins & continuo all the way to a pretty substantial orchestra, but they all have the organ in common.

I was a Catholic well before Vatican II, when the liturgy was still all Latin, and there was a lot of music played (although nowhere near what you heard in Vienna!). After that, I agree, the service was sterile and joyless for me. Since that was the only reason I was hanging around anyway, I could see it was time for me to go. :-\

I will say that my entire intent in this thread is to bring out the delight and aesthetic satisfaction that derives from enjoying the full course of mass music from that time. The only way that I have been able to approach this music is as music, not as recreating a spiritual journey. To each his own, of course, I just didn't want to let only believers have all the enjoyment of this cream of the music from the era of Church dominance of European culture. I did that for far too long, to my disadvantage. :)

8)
Visit my Haydn blog: HaydnSeek

Haydn: that genius of vulgar music who induces an inordinate thirst for beer - Mily Balakirev (1860)

Lilas Pastia

#45
Great post, Gurn !  :D

Kloster Ettal was one of the high points of my bavarian trip a few years ago. The whole compound is very impressively laid out in the beautiful setting of the bavarian piedmont. Gorgeous as the church is from the outside, my jaw dropped as I entered the building. It is stupendously decorated in rococo style with gold and cream  ornaments. Although it was a rainy weekday the place was filled with the usual carloads of enthusiastic tourists. It took a good deal of mental effort to discard the distraction and  imagine what the place must have looked like in Mozart's day. A high mass there must have been simply awesome.

Apart from Mozart and Haydn masses, my introductions to the austrian mass were both via the good Offices of GMG poster Gabriel (is he still around?). He sent me copies of the Naumann disc every one is referring to, as well as prompting me to go for a disc of Hummel masses. I wholeheartedly agree that the Naumann is very good. No forgotten masterpieces, but very well-crafted works of some stature. I derived less pleasure from another Naumann disc from the same interpreters (2 Psalm settings). I wonder what would be the occasion for these particular works? At 17 and 26 minutes, they are surely too substantial to be interpolated in a Mass Ordinary ?

Re: Haydn's Cellensis masses. I firmly prefer the glorious 75 minutes earlier setting, one of Haydn's happiest creations. I have 4 versions of it and the ones I prefer are those that give the music room to breathe. Thanks to this thread I now understand why: I am absolutely convinced this must have been the only acceptable way to perform such grandly demonstrative music in its intended liturgical setting. I can certainly imagine the Wilhelm or Jochum readings in the Ettal Klosterkirche, but not the zippy Preston or Wislocki !


Gurn Blanston

Quote from: André on June 29, 2012, 02:09:19 PM
Great post, Gurn !  :D

Kloster Ettal was one of the high points of my bavarian trip a few years ago. The whole compound is very impressively laid out in the beautiful setting of the bavarian piedmont. Gorgeous as the church is from the outside, my jaw dropped as I entered the building. It is stupendously decorated in rococo style with gold and cream  ornaments. Although it was a rainy weekday the place was filled with the usual carloads of enthusiastic tourists. It took a good deal of mental effort to discard the distraction and  imagine what the place must have looked like in Mozart's day. A high mass there must have been simply awesome.

Apart from Mozart and Haydn masses, my introductions to the austrian mass were both via the good Offices of GMG poster Gabriel (is he still around?). He sent me copies of the Naumann disc every one is referring to, as well as prompting me to go for a disc of Hummel masses. I wholeheartedly agree that the Naumann is very good. No forgotten masterpieces, but very well-crafted works of some stature. I derived less pleasure from another Naumann disc from the same interpreters (2 Psalm settings). I wonder what would be the occasion for these particular works? At 17 and 26 minutes, they are surely too substantial to be interpolated in a Mass Ordinary ?

Re: Haydn's Cellensis masses. I firmly prefer the glorious 75 minutes earlier setting, one of Haydn's happiest creations. I have 4 versions of it and the ones I prefer are those that give the music room to breathe. Thanks to this thread I now understand why: I am absolutely convinced this must have been the only acceptable way to perform such grandly demonstrative music in its intended liturgical setting. I can certainly imagine the Wilhelm or Jochum readings in the Ettal Klosterkirche, but not the zippy Preston or Wislocki !

Thank you very kindly, André. I actually thought of you and your enthusiasm for sacred music while writing these essays. You are among the few who know the struggle I had to bring myself  to this music, but I must say, I am very pleased that I did!

I think that Psalm settings were sung after mass. It was customary that most (if not all) of the congregation would stay in church and sing vespers and Psalms. And of course, the Lutherans had their own entire liturgy, which matched the Roman in many ways but not all. Since Naumann was in Dresden, he could have been composing for Protestants, while in Austria he probably wasn't, while in Salzburg he certainly wasn't (since they were all deported in <>1730!).

The more I read about the big monasteries the more I realize their importance to music in general and sacred music in particular. Kloster Ettal must have been a fabulous journey!

No, it is hard to enjoy 'zippy' in a mass like that one! Maestoso is what springs to mind. It may well be that the second one was a superior musical piece, but the first one is a tremendously lovely work of art.

Gabriel is an infrequent visitor these days, but still pops up from time to time. As with anyone whose taste and aesthetic sense is virtually congruent with my own, I hold him still in the highest esteem.  0:)   :)

8)

Thanks again
Visit my Haydn blog: HaydnSeek

Haydn: that genius of vulgar music who induces an inordinate thirst for beer - Mily Balakirev (1860)

Lilas Pastia

#47
Haha! Yes, I recall that religious music was not your strong suit, so the care and insight you put in these essays really surprised me  :D. And I must say I learned a thing or two about the genre that I had never bothered to explore. I just love the genre, and the music of that era is very dear to me, so when you combine the two it's a natural !

I think that despite the fact that writing masses was expected from every important or budding composer of the era,  the Mass setting is a musical structure that posed a great challenge to composers, one that the best of them actually relished. Mozart for example hated to do it on command, and most of his masses offer only fleeting glimpses into his greatness as a composer. But when he worked on his c minor Mass he put all his heart and genius into it. Too bad he never finished it - I wonder why?

Jumping half a century forward after Schubert's death, only Bruckner was able to recapture the essence and spirit of the classical austrian High Mass. Some of Schubert's masses are quite fine, and his great E flat mass is a true masterpiece. Do you consider that as classical or romantic ? It's from 1828. End of an era, beginning of another sort of thing.

Gurn Blanston

Quote from: André on June 29, 2012, 04:47:08 PM
Haha! Yes, I recall that religious music was not your strong suit, so the care and insight you put in these essays really surprised me  :D. And I must say I learned a thing or two about the genre that I had never bothered to explore. I just love the genre, and the music of that era is very dear to me, so when you combine the two it's a natural !

I think that despite the fact that writing masses was expected from every important or budding composer of the era,  the Mass setting is a musical structure that posed a great challenge to composers, one that the best of them actually relished. Mozart for example hated to do it on command, and most of his masses offer only fleeting glimpses into his greatness as a composer. But when he worked on his c minor Mass he put all his heart and genius into it. Too bad he never finished it - I wonder why?

Jumping half a century forward after Schubert's death, only Bruckner was able to recapture the essence and spirit of the classical austrian High Mass. Some of Schubert's masses are quite fine, and his great E flat mass is a true masterpiece. Do you consider that as classical or romantic ? It's from 1828. End of an era, beginning of another sort of thing.

I was quite surprised at how much work was needed to get a grip on the era. Little bit here, little bit there; nowhere a straightforward presentation that answered my questions. The same thing that got me started on Haydn, actually. :)

Many great composers actually didn't get beyond writing masses, which is why their names are only known to a select few. Secular music was the key to making through the 19th century. Not necessarily any secular music either, as the fate of Haydn and most of Mozart in that time will attest.

I think that in order to judge Mozart's masses fairly, one must consider the constraints that were put on him by the Archbishop Colloredo. He anticipated Emperor Joseph by several years in shearing away any hint of either Rococo OR grandeur in the mass. Since he was Mozart's employer, the choices were limited. If he had been in Vienna 10 years earlier, I think an entirely different body of work would have resulted. But in certain masses he allows his genius to shine through. As an example, I offer you K 317 in C, often called 'The Coronation Mass', but actually it was probably the Easter Mass of 1779 in Salzburg Cathedral. It is brilliant in all ways and possibly the finest Missa longa to emerge from Salzburg in that era. I commend it to you. :)

I consider Schubert to be the last real Classical composer, but that's just my opinion. I agree about the Eb mass, but I'm also partial to the Ab. But hey, that's just me.

I also tend to not go beyond into the Romantic. At that point, things simply got too big for my tiny brain to comprehend. :)

8)
Visit my Haydn blog: HaydnSeek

Haydn: that genius of vulgar music who induces an inordinate thirst for beer - Mily Balakirev (1860)

Johnll



"Finally I would like to say just this (with apologies to any Roman Catholic I might inadvertently offend): I would take anytime of day and night a "Classical" Mass over a Conciliar Mass (post Vatican II Council) which is not only devoid of any spiritual experience but also aesthetically and theologically offensive."

Even some Roman Catholics might give this a +1, but just a personal opinion. One day  may figure out how to do a fancy quote- or not.


mc ukrneal

Quote from: Johnll on June 29, 2012, 08:26:04 PM
One day  may figure out how to do a fancy quote- or not.

If you look at your post: on the left side of the screen is the user name of the person who posted. If you look/scroll to the right (at the same level), you will see the word 'Quote' - just click this to quote someone else's post. Alternatively, in the preview screen you will see 'Posted by: USERNAME' on the left side of the screen and 'Insert Quote on the right'. Again, you could just click that. Hope that helps.
Be kind to your fellow posters!!

Leo K.

#51
What a wonderful discussion here. Wish I'd had the time to write more!

Michael Haydn's masses/requiems are new to me. Gurn mentioned this recording to me recently, which I have but haven't heard yet:



I also want to recommend this fine recording:


Zurich Boys' Choir, Munich Chamber Orchestra. Conductor: Christoph Poppen. Soloists: Gabriela Bone, Gisela Schubert, Ioannis Ikonomou, Gerhard Späth, Friedemann Winklhofer, Ingrid Kasper.


I wish I could find out more about this mass ( in C major), also called the 'Missa Admontis'.

Edit: I found a few words!

QuoteThe names of Michael Haydn's masses are associated either with a specific commission or with the composition's dedicatee. Thus, Haydn composed the "Missa in honorem Sti. Gotthardi," also known as the "Admont Mass," for the Admont Abbey located in the region of Styria, Austria, where Gotthard Kuglmayr was the Abbot. The mass combines formal concentration with liturgical function. The songlike melody, the unity of the motivic material, and the balanced harmony of solemn and lyrical passages show how intensively Haydn concerned himself with the genre. Due to its length and its orchestration the mass can be considered a type of missa solemnis. Fugues and fugal movements are completely missing from the Missa Admontis as is any kind of contrapuntal (including imitative) composition. In so doing, Haydn assured that the required understanding of the liturgical text would be achieved.



Gurn Blanston

Quote from: Leo K on June 30, 2012, 07:12:09 AM
What a wonderful discussion here. Wish I'd had the time to write more!

Michael Haydn's masses/requiems are new to me. Gurn mentioned this recording to me recently, which I have but haven't heard yet:



I also want to recommend this fine recording:


Zurich Boys' Choir, Munich Chamber Orchestra. Conductor: Christoph Poppen. Soloists: Gabriela Bone, Gisela Schubert, Ioannis Ikonomou, Gerhard Späth, Friedemann Winklhofer, Ingrid Kasper.


I wish I could find out more about this mass ( in C major), also called the 'Missa Admontis'.

Edit: I found a few words!

Leo,
That's amusing in view of the PM I just sent you recommending those two. Shows how short my memory can be sometimes. :D  Anyway, the third disk I recommend is this one here, on Linn Records;



One of the interesting features of this disk is that the producers have incorporated the associated vespers for the same feast, as well as a pair of Mozart Epistle Sonatas which fit in nicely. Of course, the sound of a boys' choir mustn't offend you, else go no further. :D

8)
Visit my Haydn blog: HaydnSeek

Haydn: that genius of vulgar music who induces an inordinate thirst for beer - Mily Balakirev (1860)

Leo K.

Quote from: Gurnatron5500 on June 30, 2012, 07:32:59 AM
Leo,
That's amusing in view of the PM I just sent you recommending those two. Shows how short my memory can be sometimes. :D  Anyway, the third disk I recommend is this one here, on Linn Records;



One of the interesting features of this disk is that the producers have incorporated the associated vespers for the same feast, as well as a pair of Mozart Epistle Sonatas which fit in nicely. Of course, the sound of a boys' choir mustn't offend you, else go no further. :D

8)

LOL, I saw your PM after I posted!  8)

Your recommendation of this one:



(which I'm listening to now) is amazing. It is almost an hour long, and oh, so beautiful. I can't help but think of Mozart's late style, it sure does sound like he was influenced by Michael Haydn's missa!

QuoteMichael Haydn's Missa Hispanica or Missa a due cori, Kletzler I:17, MH 422, was presumably written for Spain, but there is no evidence of its ever having been performed there during Haydn's lifetime. The mass is scored for 2 oboes, 2 bassoons, 2 horns in low C, F and G, 2 trumpets in C, timpani, strings, basso continuo, SATB soloists, and two mixed choirs.

The Austrian premiere was in Kremsmünster on June 24, 1792, a performance in Salzburg followed in 1796. When Empress Marie Therese visited Salzburg in 1805, she liked the music so much she wanted to have her own copy of the score.


Gurn Blanston

Quote from: Leo K on June 30, 2012, 08:11:48 AM
LOL, I saw your PM after I posted!  8)

Your recommendation of this one:



(which I'm listening to now) is amazing. It is almost an hour long, and oh, so beautiful. I can't help but think of Mozart's late style, it sure does sound like he was influenced by Michael Haydn's missa!

Yes, I am very much taken with that one. Amazingly few recordings of it, given the quality of the content. Sad commentary on where the music biz is gone these days, but I digress...

Yes, Mozart held Michael Haydn in very high esteem, and it would have been impossible for him to not be influenced by. Actually, I think this probably went in both directions, rather like with Wolfgang and that other Haydn later in Vienna.

8)
Visit my Haydn blog: HaydnSeek

Haydn: that genius of vulgar music who induces an inordinate thirst for beer - Mily Balakirev (1860)

Lilas Pastia

Much to my discomfiture I looked in vain for a Michael Haydn disc in my collection. I know I have something more than the puny andantino für trombone I unearthed. Maybe I'll manage to put my hands on it some day :-\. In any event, thanks guys for the suggestions of some of his sacred works. I shall keep an eye out on those. BTW the Hungaroton is a treasure trove of things haydnian and associated music of the era.


Uncle Connie

Time I got on board the train.

First - Gurn, sorry to be slow, I honestly didn't think of much to add to your excellent presentations so far.

But now we've hit "my man," Mike Haydn, and I'm so very pleased to see so many of the truly great recordings of his vocal music already being bandied about.  Sadly, the Missa hispanica thing seems to be out of print, and there has never been another, but maybe mp3 downloads will work for you?  You're missing a gem otherwise - but to be fair, the recording, good as it is, doesn't really do the thing complete justice because of the intent to have two orchestras and two choirs intertwining and echoing from opposite sides of a great cathedral space, which can only be hinted at in one's home setting (well, unless you happen to live in a castle or somesuch).

Now here's my contribution to the Michael Haydn discography for today, and it has to be a download, sorry all you CD-fondlers (like me) but it doesn't come any other way:

[asin]B002RHTAIC[/asin]

It contains the St.Hieronymus Mass MH 254 from 1777, about which even Leopold Mozart (who in general had a less-than-warm opinion of Michael Haydn, perhaps in part because Haydn got the jobs Leopold thought he should have had) veritably gushed in a letter to Wolfgang.  It's unusual in that it has no stringed instruments in the score:  Oboes, bassoons, trombones and organ, that's it.  The work is sometimes called the Oboe Mass because the first oboe part dominates almost throughout.  The Pierre Cao recording here, a 'period' performance, is an absolute joy; of the four recordings made so far of this mass, it's enough superior to the Graden version on BIS that I'd choose Cao if I could have just one.  An older CD led by Raimund Hug is good but less impressive than the other two.  (A fourth recording on LPs only from the University of Missouri at Columbia is far in the distance and in any case unobtainable.) 

(The other work on the disc, by one Jiri Druzhetsky, is interesting but not compelling.)

ANDRE:  Perhaps you have a set of the Mozart symphonies that has what used to be considered his No. 37 in G, K.444.  If so, it's by Michael Haydn (MH 334, with a short introduction tacked on by Wolfie).  Another thought is that he does show up now and then in compilation discs such as the trombone thing you mentioned; another possible source is one of several Christmas-in-Austria-type albums that contain one of his Christmas shepherds' cantatas.  If none of the above, then I guess you'll just have to go through your entire collection, disc by disc, track by track.  Ready?  Set?   

More to follow.  I'm entertaining company this weekend so must be brief.  Imagine what that means if the present post is considered 'brief'!!

Uncle Connie

And what have I been doing this now-ending weekend, you ask?  (My best guess is that few if any of you have asked that.)

Well, other than enjoying the fact that we're not sweltering or burning like 97% of the rest of the United States, I've been extending my boundaries forward a bit with these Masses.  Mostly, that means I've been playing CDs that I haven't heard in a while. 

This listening begins with some works written in the first two decades of the 19th C., meaning the immediate extension of the brothers Haydn.  Specifically, I've been playing the Beethoven C Major Mass, plus five Masses by J.N. Hummel, six of Franz Schubert, and two by Carl Maria von Weber.  (The latter pair are from Weber's days in Dresden, so not Austrian; but he did study with Michael Haydn, so the thread however tenuous is there.)

The overwhelming impression that derives from all this listening is a point Gurn made in his very first post in this thread:  Church music in that time and place was very, very, VERY conservative.  The Hummels, for instance, while beautifully written throughout, could just as readily have derived from Joseph Haydn at the time of his second Missa Cellensis (1782).  Schubert's first four Masses are admittedly immature works, and have much more of a lyrical bent than we are used to from the later Haydn works; but the connections and derivations are still obvious.  (With his two later Masses, Schubert is moving in other directions, but those come from the 1820s.)  Weber, whose two mature Masses come from 1814 and 1818, has clearly moved into the opera theatre, but on a far more limited basis than he was doing in his other realms of composing - and on that basis, frankly, the two Weber works don't quite, er, 'work,' because he can't seem to make up his mind which world he wants to inhabit, so jerks back and forth between theatre and church often awkwardly.  (The second of the two, the so-called Jubel-mass, is much better than the first because it begins to resolve this dichotomy.  But it still doesn't fully succeed.)  And even Beethoven the Fiery Radical, with his C major Mass from either 1801 or 1803 depending on which source you use (1803 seems standard), takes a lyrical path that Schubert would soon follow far more than Beethoven himself, but never really tries very hard to break from the traditions then in force.  He does go far enough that the work was a failure in its time.  But it should be recalled when listening that it dates from the time of the Eroica, and putting them head to head would suggest two very different eras of thought at work - maybe even two completely different composers?

And that in turn leads to the understanding that the real break with the past in Austrian church music - 'break' in the sense that finally composers could look forward (toward Bruckner, say) instead of backward (toward the Haydns and Mozart) - really did not come until Beethoven's Missa Solemnis and the A-Flat and E-Flat Masses of Schubert.  And those were from the 1820s.  Whereas of course the symphony, the string quartet, the piano sonata and the opera were all long since dancing along newer and more futuristic paths.   

And with that, my final musical blather for the moment, I return to our house guests who will be evicted tomorrow morning (whew!), and from there I'll think of yet more exciting things with which to mesmerize you.         

kaergaard

Quote from: André on June 29, 2012, 02:09:19 PM
Great post, Gurn !  :D

Kloster Ettal was one of the high points of my bavarian trip a few years

You were at Kloser Ettal, you were inside this jewel of Rococo architecture, you thought of Haydn and Mozart and others, but my dear André, did you know another great composer not only worked there, but the Abbott gave the permission to have this genius buried inside the church? I am talking about Carl Orff!

Uncle Connie

Quote from: kaergaard on July 01, 2012, 07:46:01 PM
You were at Kloser Ettal, you were inside this jewel of Rococo architecture, you thought of Haydn and Mozart and others, but my dear André, did you know another great composer not only worked there, but the Abbott gave the permission to have this genius buried inside the church? I am talking about Carl Orff!


Sadly, my own recent Bavarian drive-through did not get me to Kloster Ettal or very much of anything else worth reporting.  I did visit an ATM and a yummy bakery in Munich, and I did proceed to get lost and nearly miss the tour bus.  I did stop and look into a grand old Munich church that was doing a Haydn Mass on Sunday, but I was there on Tuesday.  Later, I got to look out across Lake Chiem and see in the distance the monastery, on a small isle, for which Michael Haydn wrote his St. Ursula Mass.  And I did get to ask the tour director if by any chance we would be going close enough to see Dachau, and he seemed very uncomfortable that I'd even brought the topic up.  I guess tour guides want everything to be happy....  (We did not get close enough.  A huge stand of trees blocks the view from the motorway.  In any case, just seeing it would be meaningless; visiting the interpretive center, on the other hand....)