Blind Comparison: R.Strauss - Also sprach Zarathustra

Started by madaboutmahler, June 24, 2012, 11:34:00 AM

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zauberflöte


madaboutmahler

Thank you both very much for your votes! Very interesting indeed!

Just a reminder that the voting deadline for this part is the 1st August. If you have the time the other group as well, that would be excellent! :)
"Music is ... A higher revelation than all Wisdom & Philosophy"
— Ludwig van Beethoven

zauberflöte

I was hoping you'd ask. Yes please to another round.
Aug. 1 doesn't leave a lot of time but the weekend is here.

madaboutmahler

Quote from: zauberflote on July 27, 2012, 03:10:29 AM
I was hoping you'd ask. Yes please to another round.
Aug. 1 doesn't leave a lot of time but the weekend is here.

Great - have sent you the link for Group Y. :) If you need it, I can add another day onto the deadline. I'll be going away on the 5th so won't have computer access for a week, so it would be good to have all the links for the final part sent out by then. 
"Music is ... A higher revelation than all Wisdom & Philosophy"
— Ludwig van Beethoven

zauberflöte

Even though I've only had these for a short while I think I'm ready. I've spent all day with these, so excellent were so many of them I couldn't stop listening.

What a difference in excerpts. Two of my least favorite performances from the A group I had in the first round appear here and my feelings are completely different. I love them! I had to go back to the earlier Sunrise excerpts to see if I had screwed up. No, still don't like them in the earlier sections.
All in the top four are worthy. The Bs were the slight weak link in this section.
Comparing A4 with C2 will be fascinating if they both make it through.

A4 starts off brilliantly. Great dynamism and intricacy with heaps of excitement. It settles down a bit but stays deeply involving. The performance sounds spontaneous, almost as if the musicians were creating music off the cuff. This could have been my top choice if not for the sound quality; the quality of C1 in that regard was just too much for A4 to beat.

A6. Very good also. Almost as much dynamism. It scores a little lower because the dance feels just slightly rushed. Performances among the top four were all wonderful so I'm looking at tiny things to mark differences.

B3. Undernourished opening. Not terrible, but never really got going for me. Waltz was pleasant.

B5. Hard to find fault anywhere. A little lower energy in the opening, Waltz was fine. It just didn't excite me as much.

C1. Now we're talking. Excellent. A little homogeneous but the energy is infectious, building as it goes. A tepid violin near the opening of the dance was at first the the only flaw for me, minor though it was. Eventually I even liked that for the sense of nostalgia it created. A rich, warm tapestry of sound lead by an insightful conductor with a remarkable orchestra that eventually overwhelms. It's not perfect; C4 opens better. But C4's in-your-face quality ultimately wears me down. C1 gets better with each listening.

C4 was my favorite going through four listenings, but by the fifth hearing it's technicolor, unsubtle quality began to tire me. Love the up-front timpani at the opening. This would excite any audience that heard it just once in concert. There's really no reason to punish it just because I've listened to 10 times. And yet I do, down to a respectable number 3.

Ranking:
1. C1
2. A4
3. C4
4. A6
5. B5
6. B3

mc ukrneal

Quote from: zauberflote on July 27, 2012, 04:24:03 PM
Even though I've only had these for a short while I think I'm ready. I've spent all day with these, so excellent were so many of them I couldn't stop listening.

What a difference in excerpts. Two of my least favorite performances from the A group I had in the first round appear here and my feelings are completely different. I love them! I had to go back to the earlier Sunrise excerpts to see if I had screwed up. No, still don't like them in the earlier sections.
All in the top four are worthy. The Bs were the slight weak link in this section.
Comparing A4 with C2 will be fascinating if they both make it through.

A4 starts off brilliantly. Great dynamism and intricacy with heaps of excitement. It settles down a bit but stays deeply involving. The performance sounds spontaneous, almost as if the musicians were creating music off the cuff. This could have been my top choice if not for the sound quality; the quality of C1 in that regard was just too much for A4 to beat.

A6. Very good also. Almost as much dynamism. It scores a little lower because the dance feels just slightly rushed. Performances among the top four were all wonderful so I'm looking at tiny things to mark differences.

B3. Undernourished opening. Not terrible, but never really got going for me. Waltz was pleasant.

B5. Hard to find fault anywhere. A little lower energy in the opening, Waltz was fine. It just didn't excite me as much.

C1. Now we're talking. Excellent. A little homogeneous but the energy is infectious, building as it goes. A tepid violin near the opening of the dance was at first the the only flaw for me, minor though it was. Eventually I even liked that for the sense of nostalgia it created. A rich, warm tapestry of sound lead by an insightful conductor with a remarkable orchestra that eventually overwhelms. It's not perfect; C4 opens better. But C4's in-your-face quality ultimately wears me down. C1 gets better with each listening.

C4 was my favorite going through four listenings, but by the fifth hearing it's technicolor, unsubtle quality began to tire me. Love the up-front timpani at the opening. This would excite any audience that heard it just once in concert. There's really no reason to punish it just because I've listened to 10 times. And yet I do, down to a respectable number 3.

Ranking:
1. C1
2. A4
3. C4
4. A6
5. B5
6. B3
I love these exercises. We disagreed about nearly everything EXCEPT that A4 was pretty amazing. It is remarkable how we can agree on this one almost the whole way, and then disagree about everything that follows. You put C1 into first! I put it into last! Wowzers!
Be kind to your fellow posters!!

zauberflöte

Quote from: mc ukrneal on July 27, 2012, 11:53:59 PM
I love these exercises. We disagreed about nearly everything EXCEPT that A4 was pretty amazing. It is remarkable how we can agree on this one almost the whole way, and then disagree about everything that follows. You put C1 into first! I put it into last! Wowzers!

Neil. I noticed that!  I have to admit when I first started listening C1 was further down the list, though it was always above the two B's. I even see what you mean by it lacking in "detail and phrasing." I think that my sense of "homogeneous" playing expresses a similar sentiment.
But for me, by the end, C1 was the one that had me standing up in my bathrobe air-conducting. ;D

I agree A4 was pretty amazing. I had placed it second to last in the first round. I'm glad my low ranking didn't keep it from going through to round two.

TheGSMoeller

Sorry, Daniel, I'll get to my excerpts either tonight or tomorrow night, been busy at work but I'll get to them.

madaboutmahler

Thank you for that vote, Jim - glad you are enjoying it! It certainly is interesting to compare your vote with Neil's! :)

No worries, Greg - those times would be absolutely fine. Still 3 days until the deadline! :)
"Music is ... A higher revelation than all Wisdom & Philosophy"
— Ludwig van Beethoven

TheGSMoeller

Quote from: madaboutmahler on July 29, 2012, 08:20:41 AM
Thank you for that vote, Jim - glad you are enjoying it! It certainly is interesting to compare your vote with Neil's! :)

No worries, Greg - those times would be absolutely fine. Still 3 days until the deadline! :)

End of the month is increasing work load, my comparisons will be here by tomorrow August 1st by sun down. US eastern time sun down.
Sorry, friends.

J.Z. Herrenberg

This (group Y) was difficult, very difficult. The recordings were mostly very close in quality. What I listened out for was the right mixture of spaciousness, intimacy and liveliness. Too much 'outer space', and you lose the intimacy of sound, too 'close-up', and the music tends to get a bit shrill. I haven't looked at the other verdicts, so this is my wholly personal list:


1. C1 (Best balance of space, fire and intimacy)
2. B5
3. A6 (Very spectacular, almost 'glossy')
4. B3
5. C4 (Too close-miked for comfort, but exciting in its own right)
6. A4 (Oldest recording, the orchestra a bit rough)
Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination and life to everything. -- Plato

Carnivorous Sheep

My thoughts listening to Group X was that the excerpts got progressively better!

Rankings:

1. C3
2. C2
3. B4
4. B6
5. A5
6. A2

The C group excerpts were absolutely brilliant to me, a great mix of intensity and control. A2 was downright boring compared to the other contenders, and A5 was only slightly better, further hindered by the poor sound quality.

The B group excerpts had interesting moments, particularly in B4 for me, but were overall, behind the C group in terms of both excitement and enjoyment for me.
Baa?

Lisztianwagner

#132
Just finished listening to the excerpts again, to dispel all doubts; I'll post my comments this evening. :)
"Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire." - Gustav Mahler

madaboutmahler

Thank you both for your votes!

Ok, Ilaria - looking forward to seeing what you think! :)
"Music is ... A higher revelation than all Wisdom & Philosophy"
— Ludwig van Beethoven

Sergeant Rock

the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

madaboutmahler

"Music is ... A higher revelation than all Wisdom & Philosophy"
— Ludwig van Beethoven

TimH

My thoughts on Group Y:

1st = C1 - Excitement, presence, fine detail, character and dramatic sweep; solo violin - not dragging like others, more virtuosic, well integrated with orchestra; final section bold and romantic. For me best by a long way.

2nd = C4 - Certainly makes an impact, but everything loud and rather monochrome.

3rd = A6 - Orchestra sounds slightly distant, bass lines a bit woolly but fine orchestral detail coming through; solo violin suave, accurate; overall finely crafted, but a bit lightweight.

4th = B3 - Immediate recording with good presence; starts with momentum, forward moving, exciting; however - solo violin very very slow when starting, glissandi very prominent, overall this section too schmalzy, rather brings down the whole performance.

5th = B5 - Sounds a little congested; solo violin very deliberate; nothing stands out as being either great or terrible - unremarkable.

6th = A4 - Muffled distant and distorted sound; very difficult to get involved; solo instruments - half their tone missing; sounds like a Tom and Jerry soundtrack at times! For me worst by a long way.

madaboutmahler

Thank you for your vote!

Does everyone think that they will be able to post their vote within the next 2 and a half hours?
"Music is ... A higher revelation than all Wisdom & Philosophy"
— Ludwig van Beethoven

Lisztianwagner

I'm finishing to write the last thought; I'll post everything as soon as possible. Can't wait to see the results of the second round! ;D
"Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire." - Gustav Mahler

TheGSMoeller

Quote from: madaboutmahler on August 01, 2012, 10:39:15 AM
Thank you for your vote!

Does everyone think that they will be able to post their vote within the next 2 and a half hours?

As I stated earlier, I can finish tonight, but it will be a few more hours before I can get to it :(

If you wait then that's awesome, but I'll understand if you want to move on.