Blind Comparison: R.Strauss - Also sprach Zarathustra

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

I have been awfully silent and absent, and for a reason - these past few weeks have been absurdly busy and I have a story to complete (the deadline has been extended a few days). I am afraid I'll find the quiet nor the time to participate in this final round, which is a shame. Reluctantly, I have to bow out. Sorry.

[madaboutmahler]

I have been awfully silent and absent, and for a reason - these past few weeks have been absurdly busy and I have a story to complete (the deadline has been extended a few days). I am afraid I'll find the quiet nor the time to participate in this final round, which is a shame. Reluctantly, I have to bow out. Sorry.

Don't worry, Johan - hope the story goes well and that we'll be able to see you for the Mahler 1 comparison!

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Thanks! Yes, I'll be ready and present for the Mahler First.

[DavidRoss]

All will be revealed in a few days! I'll be setting up the Mahler 1 comparison in around a week, by the way, David.

I look forward to it, Daniel. With so many terrific recordings available, it should be both informative and pleasurable. The larger my collection grows and the more familiar I become with various performances, the more I find to admire about most of them. Off the top of my head I can think of more than half a dozen that are all equally wonderful to my ears. Poor Sarge must be paralyzed by the prospect of choosing among the discs spilling from his shelves!

[madaboutmahler]

I look forward to it, Daniel. With so many terrific recordings available, it should be both informative and pleasurable. The larger my collection grows and the more familiar I become with various performances, the more I find to admire about most of them. Off the top of my head I can think of more than half a dozen that are all equally wonderful to my ears. Poor Sarge must be paralyzed by the prospect of choosing among the discs spilling from his shelves!

Glad you are looking forward to it, David, I am too! There certainly are many many great recordings available, I am very much enjoying listening to the 25 or so I have chosen for the comparison! Ranging from the old classics to the most recent. I think it's going to be a great comparison project!

[mc ukrneal]

I look forward to it, Daniel. With so many terrific recordings available, it should be both informative and pleasurable. The larger my collection grows and the more familiar I become with various performances, the more I find to admire about most of them. Off the top of my head I can think of more than half a dozen that are all equally wonderful to my ears. Poor Sarge must be paralyzed by the prospect of choosing among the discs spilling from his shelves!

I'm actually very excited to listen to Mahler 1 as it is a symphony that I has never really inspired me. So I will find out once and for all if it is a work that I just don't love or if I just haven't found the right recording. It's now or never!

[madaboutmahler]

I'm actually very excited to listen to Mahler 1 as it is a symphony that I has never really inspired me. So I will find out once and for all if it is a work that I just don't love or if I just haven't found the right recording. It's now or never!

I do hope you will enjoy it, and that some of the great recordings will inspire you!

[DavidRoss]

I'm actually very excited to listen to Mahler 1 as it is a symphony that I has never really inspired me. So I will find out once and for all if it is a work that I just don't love or if I just haven't found the right recording. It's now or never!

Let it be now!

Hard to believe it's never inspired you. Have you heard Walter, Barbirolli, Boulez, Bernstein, MTT, Gielen, Honeck, Kubelik, Sinopoli, or Suitner, just to name a few good ones?

Try this as a tuneup and to acquaint you with the entire work before the showdown!

http://www.youtube.com/v/cQFjDBFXN58&feature=related

[mc ukrneal]

Let it be now!

Hard to believe it's never inspired you. Have you heard Walter, Barbirolli, Boulez, Bernstein, MTT, Gielen, Honeck, Kubelik, Sinopoli, or Suitner, just to name a few good ones?

I've got Abbado (CSO), Kubelik x2 (I had the DG, but the sound is lousy, so I got the Audite), Bertini (I must admit I don't remember this one), Steinberg (as part of the ICON box, but have not listened yet), and Horenstein (a Berkshire impulse buy). I have more of Mahler 1 than any other Mahler symphony (though admittedly, there are plenty more out there).

[mc ukrneal]

With a bit of a push, I managed to get this in under the original deadline, but ironically, pushing the deadline off made me feel like I wasn't being rushed to finish.

Final: Also Sprach Zarathustra
Diving right in, I'd order them as C3, A5, C2, C1, B4. Each of the top three had something to offer, but ultimately I liked C3 best.

My Rankings
A5: Effective and impressive start. I notice this time a few intonation issues as I am listening on my better headphones (though it could be a recording issue as well), and the organ does stand out. But overall, a good start. There are some lovely lyrical sections in this version with some beautiful details. The dance section is attractive, though not as interesting as some.  I think the beginning sections move from strength to strength, keeping it dark and mysterious for large stretches. The highs throughout are very exciting.  Ranking: 2
B4: Opening less dark and interesting than A5, but still decent. Plods a bit. The balance and sound seem off to me. There are some effective moments, but overall, this is a bit of a dud for me.  Nothing set my soul on fire here. Ranking: 5
C1: Dull start and sloppy (and so many details missed). Beautiful violin entrance though. In fact, strings throughout are a strength, and create such a gorgeous sound. Overall though, it has a certain sameness and static feel pretty much throughout. There is lack of phrasing and differentiation. There is also a certain coldness to it. The dance section has a very light touch (nice). Recorded sound is good.  Ranking: 4
C2: Start is ok. What I love about this version is how I hear all the different instruments and the different layers of sound. It creates a richness that many of the others lack, despite being in worse sound. This one has plenty of transparency. And I like the level of detail. Dance works well, if a bit over the top.  Ranking: 3
C3: Good (though not perfect) start (drums could be fiercer, for example), but liked overall balance and impact. Has beautiful sounds, a bit more angst, but still retaining enough detail and transparency.  Very well put together.   Ranking: 1

Thanks for all your work on putting this together!!!!

[TheGSMoeller]

I'll have my final results in tomorrow. 


And then everyone can get to the Mahler 1 comparison that seems to be so eagerly anticipated. 

[madaboutmahler]

Great, thanks Neal! Very interesting! And it's an absolutely pleasure, very enjoyable for me too!

I'll have my final results in tomorrow. 

And then everyone can get to the Mahler 1 comparison that seems to be so eagerly anticipated. 

Ok, Greg, look forward to seeing them! Will you be joining us for the M1 comparison too?

[Sergeant Rock]

I'll have my final results in tomorrow. 

Me too. Mrs. Rock has kept me busy today but I'll have time this evening and tomorrow morning to listen.

Sarge

[madaboutmahler]

Me too. Mrs. Rock has kept me busy today but I'll have time this evening and tomorrow morning to listen.

Sarge

Ok, thank you for letting me know, Sarge - looking forward to reading what you think!

[TheGSMoeller]

Ok, Greg, look forward to seeing them! Will you be joining us for the M1 comparison too?

Most likely not for M1...would seriously consider if it was M7, that would be a fun comparison 

[madaboutmahler]

Most likely not for M1...would seriously consider if it was M7, that would be a fun comparison 

Ok, well, we'll get to M7 eventually

[TheGSMoeller]

I will begin by saying, well done to Daniel, superb job my friend. 

And secondly, I would like to add that I believe Sinopoli/NYP recording is better than three of the finalists. I realize it might be a moot point, but oh well. 

Of the final 5 I was only able to recognize one of them, in fact is was in my original grouping, nice to see it in the finals, and it made my top 2. That one being B4, it has a kinetic energy throughout, keeps you on the edge with brisk tempi and phenomenal playing. Unfortunately, I've always found it to truly lack in one area, emotion. Sad to say that one of my favorite recordings (still not better than Sinopoli though) is being placed on a lower podium by my top choice in the finals...C3. Ignore the opening minutes (my 3-year old can play timpani louder than that) and you have one of the most well-structured Zarathustra performances, gorgeous strings, excellent engineering and a conductor that really knew when to cool down and heat up. I have a really good feeling I know who this is performing, and if I'm right, I won't be surprised. 

1. C3
2. B4
3. C1
4. C2
5. A5

[TheGSMoeller]

I promised to not look at others results before I posted...

Interesting how Neal and I split on everything...except our top choice. 

And a similar result with Jim's final results. 

So interesting to see this to the end.

[mc ukrneal]

I promised to not look at others results before I posted...

Interesting how Neal and I split on everything...except our top choice. 

And a similar result with Jim's final results. 

So interesting to see this to the end.

For me, I think part of it has to do with the weighting. I like the dance section, but that will never be a make or break part of my choice. Rather, the opening theme and its repeat later and some other bits are more important to my decision making. Thus, the second round excerpts played a relatively small role in deciding my ranking. Others, however, may have made other weightings and placed importance on other things. In this grouping, there was no one version that played all the bits just right, which is part of what made it hard. If a fierce opening was preferred, for example, well C3 was not the best choice. The drums, as we both noted, are quite tame. But I felt that none of the openings was exactly what I liked (though some of those earlier eliminated were better). So for me, I would go through all the best openings (along with a few other select moments, one of which was the clip picked in the first round) and put those in the final. C3 was still tops in other areas, so it would have made it through despite a less than perfect opening, but I don't know that the ultimate choice for me would have changed.

What we did was no less valid, and it was only by going through it that I realized I was weighting one part less. You/others may have a different approach, one that is not less valid (and I am not complaining - the process is helpful for understanding). But the same thing happened in Mahler if you remember - because of the excerpt selected at the start, some famous (and excellent) versions were dropped. Change the order of the excerpts and the final results might be different, but then again, maybe not. In any case, I still found the whole process enjoyable.

[mahler10th]

Where are the files?