Getting at Handel's operas and oratorios

Started by Tancata, July 10, 2007, 01:25:37 PM

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Rod Corkin

Quote from: Elgarian on May 06, 2009, 01:01:53 PM
I've ordered vols 1, 2, and 5 from the Prestoclassical sale offer. Later in the month I'll sell my furniture and buy 3 and 4.
Of course I have all 5 so far. I find the quality of the performances and sound variable. But this series will only represent a fraction of Handel's cantata output. You should also try Handel's Italian duets and the cantata Aci, Galatea e Polifemo. All of which you can hear samples of at my site.
"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin
https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/classicalmusicmayhem/

DarkAngel

Quote from: Elgarian on May 06, 2009, 08:20:32 AM
But enough grumbling. Here's cause for celebration:



This is just fabulous. It's the first of the Italian cantantas that I've encountered, and it has charmed me to bits. On that basis I've already ordered the companion Helios recording of Aminta e Fillide by the same line-up of Denis Darlow and the London Handel Orchestra. But my question is this - how do these compare with the much more recent recordings of Bonizzoni and La Risonanza, on Glossa? I know the Glossa series is highly regarded but I haven't been able to find any samples from them online.

Agree with other comments, the early Handel cantatas from Italian period are very beatiful works, I also have the CD shown above.
Any chance to hear some great female arias with skillful ornamentation should not be passed by.....

Please let us know when you get those CDs from Presto.......may also have to take the plunge "visse de arte"  ;)

DarkAngel

Quote from: erato on April 29, 2009, 07:27:46 AM
There's a fine, 15 CD Virgin set:

 


That boxset now has my attention!
Just got the latest release by conductor Alan Curtis for Archiv label:



Elgarian

#123
Quote from: DarkAngel on May 28, 2009, 03:06:58 PMPlease let us know when you get those CDs from Presto.......may also have to take the plunge "visse de arte"  ;)

They have arrived. I ordered the remaining ones just before the Presto sale closed, and now have all five. I had a bit of a shock at first. I started with the fifth volume (Clori Tirsi e Fileno) and was troubled at first by what seemed to be an undue prominence given to the harpsichord. Knowing that Bonizzoni was himself the harpsichordist, I feared that he might have tweaked the balance a bit to make sure he was well-heard! (I'm not over-fond of the harpsichord, so this might have been bad news for me.) But I'm happy to say that my fears were groundless, and I haven't noticed the same problem (if it is a problem) with any of the others.

I wrote my first impressions of volume 2 on another forum - perhaps I could quote myself, here?



"The material is new to me, as are the performers; but so far, listening to Armida abbandonata, I'm enchanted by what I'm hearing. The cantata begins in an extraordinary manner, with single soprano voice set against an agitated violin accompaniment - as if the curtain has just risen on action that we've interrupted, as it were. So we're plunged into following a trail of footprints, wondering what the heck is going on, until suddenly the mood shifts, and Armida gives in to her tiredness. She's been on the trail of her unfaithful lover for a while, it seems. We can feel the sad exhaustion as she continues her song now with only harpsichord accompaniment, and there are a few moments where a recognisable famous theme, already known through a later opera, breaks through: it's used here in seminal fragmentary form with wonderful effect as she sings, 'you part and leave me prey to pain'.

This one cantata, lasting only about 15 minutes, single-handedly makes nonsense of the idea that Baroque music is devoid of emotion. We're driven relentlessly through Armida's full spectrum of emotions as she passes from anxiety, through sadness, to anger; from anger to uncertainty, and finally to a kind of pleading regret. The singing, insofar as I'm any judge (not very far, technically, I admit) seems faultless; the instrumental playing sympathetic and delicate, yet violent and vigorous when need be. I could almost be converted from a lifelong aversion to the harpsichord to a wholehearted acceptance of it, so well does it match and complement the singing.

That's just the first cantata on this CD. There are four more on it. ... This is fabulous stuff. I could drown in this music."

My feeling here is that you can't go wrong with this series. The presentation is beautiful, each one a three-leaved fold-out package with the booklet built in - good notes, all the words given.

DarkAngel

Quote from: Elgarian on May 29, 2009, 12:13:55 AM


"The material is new to me, as are the performers; but so far, listening to Armida abbandonata, I'm enchanted by what I'm hearing. The cantata begins in an extraordinary manner, with single soprano voice set against an agitated violin accompaniment - as if the curtain has just risen on action that we've interrupted, as it were. So we're plunged into following a trail of footprints, wondering what the heck is going on, until suddenly the mood shifts, and Armida gives in to her tiredness. She's been on the trail of her unfaithful lover for a while, it seems. We can feel the sad exhaustion as she continues her song now with only harpsichord accompaniment, and there are a few moments where a recognisable famous theme, already known through a later opera, breaks through: it's used here in seminal fragmentary form with wonderful effect as she sings, 'you part and leave me prey to pain'.

This one cantata, lasting only about 15 minutes, single-handedly makes nonsense of the idea that Baroque music is devoid of emotion. We're driven relentlessly through Armida's full spectrum of emotions as she passes from anxiety, through sadness, to anger; from anger to uncertainty, and finally to a kind of pleading regret. The singing, insofar as I'm any judge (not very far, technically, I admit) seems faultless; the instrumental playing sympathetic and delicate, yet violent and vigorous when need be. I could almost be converted from a lifelong aversion to the harpsichord to a wholehearted acceptance of it, so well does it match and complement the singing.

That's just the first cantata on this CD. There are four more on it. ... This is fabulous stuff. I could drown in this music."

My feeling here is that you can't go wrong with this series. The presentation is beautiful, each one a three-leaved fold-out package with the booklet built in - good notes, all the words given.


Oh my...............sounds very nice indeed, too bad they can't put all 5 Cds in a boxset for reduced price  ;)
Still these may soon be in my shopping basket awaiting the buy button to be engaged

Looks like these Italian canatas were commissioned by wealthy private patrons for small personal performances judging form the CD title, also are these all secular themes with no religious subject matter?

Rod Corkin

#125
Quote from: Elgarian on May 29, 2009, 12:13:55 AM
They have arrived. I ordered the remaining ones just before the Presto sale closed, and now have all five. I had a bit of a shock at first. I started with the fifth volume (Clori Tirsi e Fileno) and was troubled at first by what seemed to be an undue prominence given to the harpsichord.

I noticed this myself, this is not always the case in the series so perhaps they were showing off Ton Koopman's instrument, which actually does not sound all that special. As I have mentioned before this series has proved variable so far in terms of sound and performance quality.

The person above who bought the Curtis Alcina CD made the wrong choice in my opinion, if you want recommendations with samples of all the best Handel recordings the best source anywhere on the web is my site. I used to post samples here long ago but nobody was interested then.
"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin
https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/classicalmusicmayhem/

Sorin Eushayson

Quote from: Rod Corkin on May 29, 2009, 05:39:51 AM
The person above who bought the Curtis Alcina CD made the wrong choice in my opinion, if you want recommendations with samples of all the best Handel recordings the best source anywhere on the web is my site.

I must concur: his website is superb.  8)

::)

Elgarian

Quote from: DarkAngel on May 29, 2009, 04:33:17 AMtoo bad they can't put all 5 Cds in a boxset for reduced price  

As far as I'm aware, the series is still ongoing (volume 5 appeared only recently) so I think we're some distance yet from a possible bargain box.

QuoteLooks like these Italian canatas were commissioned by wealthy private patrons for small personal performances judging form the CD title, also are these all secular themes with no religious subject matter?

Yes. I recall reading somewhere that for one of his patrons, Handel had to produce a cantata every week, for a regular Sunday performance. The idea of someone turning out material of this quality, week after week, is boggling. They do have a very intimate feeling to them. And yes, I think every one so far is based on a secular (usually mythological/Arcadian) theme.

Why not just buy volume 1 in the first instance, and see what you think? (My guess is that you'll be ordering the other four within a matter of days afterwards.)

Elgarian

Quote from: Rod Corkin on May 29, 2009, 05:39:51 AMthe best source anywhere on the web is my site.

OK Rod (and Sorin). Your persistence has worked! I've just signed up and will take a look around.

DarkAngel

#129
Quote from: Elgarian on May 29, 2009, 07:07:50 AM
OK Rod (and Sorin). Your persistence has worked! I've just signed up and will take a look around.

Yes I also joined Rod's CMM forum................

Looks like Rod is recommending the Christie/Erato Alcina, which I gave very strong consideration to.
I am huge Christe fan for baroque and have many of his recordings, and love Dessay for baroque, but was not 100% sold on Renee Fleming in lead role opposite Dessay, I may of course change my mind after further review.  0:)

The new Curtis/Archiv is a worthy consolation prize in the meantime, Joyce DiDonato is well known and admired for her work in this style

Also my Rameau Les Paladins DVD has arrived today

DarkAngel

Quote from: Elgarian on May 29, 2009, 06:59:23 AM
Why not just buy volume 1 in the first instance, and see what you think? (My guess is that you'll be ordering the other four within a matter of days afterwards.)

That is exactly what I (and my wallet) fear will happen..............  :o

Elgarian

Quote from: DarkAngel on May 29, 2009, 09:26:56 AM
Looks like Rod is recommending the Christie/Erato Alcina, which I gave very strong consideration to.
I am huge Christe fan for baroque and have many of his recordings, and love Dessay for baroque, but was not 100% sold on Renee Fleming in lead role opposite Dessay, I may of course change my mind after further review.
I'm a great admirer of Christie too, and that's the Alcina set I have. I could be tempted to say, extravagantly, that it's worth having just for Dessay's (Morgana's) aria at the end of Act I. OK then: it's worth having just for Dessay's (Morgana's) aria at the end of Act I.

QuoteThe new Curtis/Archiv is a worthy consolation prize in the meantime, Joyce DiDonato is well known and admired for her work in this style

I've been wondering about buying that in addition to my Christie version, on the basis of the recent Gramophone review: 'This could be the Alcina we've been waiting for'; Wonderful'; 'the standard of da capo ornamentation unsurpassed'. I'm still inclined to get it.

QuoteAlso my Rameau Les Paladins DVD has arrived today

Lucky fellow! Please tell us how you find it.

DarkAngel

Quote from: Elgarian on May 29, 2009, 11:07:01 AM
I've been wondering about buying that in addition to my Christie version, on the basis of the recent Gramophone review: 'This could be the Alcina we've been waiting for'; Wonderful'; 'the standard of da capo ornamentation unsurpassed'. I'm still inclined to get it.

New review of Curtis/Archiv Alcina at Music Web, author says it now becomes top version available...........

http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2009/May09/Handel_Alcina_4777374.htm

Rod Corkin

#133
Quote from: DarkAngel on May 29, 2009, 07:16:42 PM
New review of Curtis/Archiv Alcina at Music Web, author says it now becomes top version available...........

http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2009/May09/Handel_Alcina_4777374.htm

The BBC magazine review still maintains Christie's is the best. It only gives Curtis's 3 stars (out of 5) for both performance and sound, which is what I would give. I've heard both recordings, neither are perfect but the BBC is right on this occasion, and I never get it wrong when it comes to Handel!  ;D

Of course this is all academic as you have already bought Curtis's so I doubt you'll be in the mood to buy another! Anyway I've said my bit on the subject, if you want anymore advice you know where to go.
"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin
https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/classicalmusicmayhem/

Elgarian



I'm still agonising over this box. 6 operas - marvellous. But all the info is on a disc, not in a booklet - terrible. I hate that. So, I say - alright, I'll buy them separately and spread out the cost over a longer period. Well, that's fine for items like Radamisto or Arminio, but a couple of them - like Deidamia - are elusive at best and very expensive if found. Aaargh. What to do? What to do?

Elgarian

Quote from: DarkAngel on May 29, 2009, 07:16:42 PM
New review of Curtis/Archiv Alcina at Music Web, author says it now becomes top version available...........

That's an interesting review. It seems to me (without having heard it myself) that we're into a realm where which is 'the best' is getting muddled up with the personal preferences of individual listeners. I've read enough very enthusiastic responses to your Curtis version to make me want to give it a shot regardless.

This sort of disagreement is hardly new. Look at the accolades that Danielle de Niese's collection of Handel arias got; yet there are a few dissenting voices; and much though I love what she does, that CD comes close, quite often, to wearing me out with too much bang-on up-front de Niese-ism.

Que

#136
Quote from: Elgarian on May 30, 2009, 01:37:37 AM


I'm still agonising over this box. 6 operas - marvellous. But all the info is on a disc, not in a booklet - terrible. I hate that. So, I say - alright, I'll buy them separately and spread out the cost over a longer period. Well, that's fine for items like Radamisto or Arminio, but a couple of them - like Deidamia - are elusive at best and very expensive if found. Aaargh. What to do? What to do?

Buy the box. I actually think the novelty of the notes on a CD-R is excellent - especially if it can be printed on a normal A4 format, wich is much easier to read than those tiny CD-booklets.  I usually print the notes, put a cover around it and keep in the bookcases where I also keep my CD's.

Q

Coopmv


Elgarian

Quote from: Que on May 30, 2009, 01:49:25 AM
Buy the box.

I like that kind of decisiveness. But on second thoughts ....

Coopmv

Quote from: Elgarian on May 30, 2009, 03:45:44 AM
I like that kind of decisiveness. But on second thoughts ....

Why not?  Buy now, ask later ...   ;D