Getting at Handel's operas and oratorios

Started by Tancata, July 10, 2007, 01:25:37 PM

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71 dB

Quote from: Elgarian on June 13, 2009, 12:25:27 PM
Well, there are some lovely touches with back projection - like the dirigibles that drift across in one of those clips.

Back projection! So that's how some of the visual tricks were done!  :)

Quote from: Elgarian on June 13, 2009, 12:25:27 PMAnd there is some tremendous choreography (not just Danielle), in which the people move around the stage in fascinating ways. There is a lot to see.

Yes, Nireno's aria is very entertaining Bollywood dancing. I also like the choreography in Va tacito.
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Elgarian

Quote from: 71 dB on June 14, 2009, 01:49:59 AM
Back projection! So that's how some of the visual tricks were done!  :)

I hasten to add that I'm not an expert on such matters - I just assumed that's how they did it.

DarkAngel

#302
Quote from: DarkAngel on June 13, 2009, 12:21:26 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynAb5i1XLXk

You have found my weak spot.......that sweet enchantress Danielle de Niese, I could never be bored watching her!

This is another case where the DVD is no more expensive than the CD versions.......

OK again I have infused new capital into the Handel revival and placed order for Christie/Opus Arte Cesare DVD set.
As a further incentive to push me over the edge since they used 3 DVDs bonus featurettes are inlcuded, one is devoted to Danielle!


Not to confuse matters but there is a competing 2005 Mortensen/Harmonia Mundi Cesare DVD on the market featuring Andreas Scholl, but I suspect the Christie version still remains top choice.


Coopmv

Quote from: Dancing Divertimentian on June 13, 2009, 10:06:26 PM
Could be. I only have one from the King series (Judas Maccabaeus) but from what I can tell Gardiner more than holds his own.

Besides, little of the repertoire is duplicated between the two so by default it's difficult to avoid Gardiner (or some other).

Amen. 

I bought ALL the Handel oratorios by the King's Consort that were on sale at MDT just last month.  Most of them were lesser-known oratorios, which Gardiner has never recorded except Judas Maccabaeus (by Mackerras and not Gardiner?) and Acis and Galatea.  How can any comparisons be made when Gardiner never recorded the same works?

knight66

I have the Mackerras version of Judas Maccabaeus. I recommend it for the solo singing and the conducting. However, folk should be aware that the chorus work is performed by the Wandsworth School Choir and the boy's indulge in a lot of hooting, look elsewhere for the choir work.

Mike
DavidW: Yeah Mike doesn't get angry, he gets even.
I wasted time: and time wasted me.

Coopmv

Mackerras made some very interesting recordings in the earlier days of his conducting career, including this Handel Messiah, re-arranged by Mozart and sung in German.  I have had this LP set in my collection for years.  I believe this recording has now been re-issued by some small English label (guess Archive did not want to be bothered) ...


Coopmv

Can someone provide an OBJECTIVE assessment of Marc Minkowski's Handel's recordings?  How does he stack up against the English trio Trevor, Gardiner and Hogwood.  I expect to order a number of his Archive recordings with my next MDT order.  Thanks in advance.

The new erato

Quote from: Coopmv on June 14, 2009, 07:55:26 AM
Can someone provide an OBJECTIVE assessment of Marc Minkowski's Handel's recordings? 

I can only provide you with information on what I like (or liked on the last occasion of playing). I don't think objective exists. I think all you can do is decide what persons subjective view coincides most with your own preferences.

Elgarian

Quote from: DarkAngel on June 14, 2009, 05:26:48 AM
As a further incentive to push me over the edge since they used 3 DVDs bonus featurettes are inlcuded, one is devoted to Danielle!

I firmly predict that you will be more than happy with the Christie version. It's so good that, when disc 3 ends, you're tempted to reach for disc 1 to start again. And in the featurette Danielle will potter around the house she's staying in, chatting to you. So you might be close to financial ruin, but you'll be a happy ruin.

Elgarian

Meanwhile, back at the homestead:

The sun is out, the breeze is light and warm, and I've been sitting in the garden listening the first act of Deborah, on headphones:



I had no idea... no idea how marvellous this would be. The singing is fabulous, the music intoxicating, the tunes infectious. I picked this up in Hyperion's half-price Handel sale (http://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/o.asp?o=1019), and I'm sorry to say that although the sale is still on, they seem to have pushed Deborah back up to full price at the moment. Worth keeping an eye on the sale, though, in case they drop the price again. It's excellent value even at full price; at half price it's a gift from Santa Claus.

DarkAngel

#310
Quote from: Coopmv on June 14, 2009, 07:55:26 AM
Can someone provide an OBJECTIVE assessment of Marc Minkowski's Handel's recordings?  How does he stack up against the English trio Trevor, Gardiner and Hogwood.  I expect to order a number of his Archive recordings with my next MDT order.  Thanks in advance.

Not sure what an "objective" assessment would consist of, but I can comment on a couple Minkowski/Archiv releases.



This is an extremely strong release, it was mentioned at least once earlier in this thread.
There are no weak spots, as close to 10/10 as you can hope for. Even the recitativo parts are done with passion and dramatic intensity making them interesting prequels to main arias, sound quality is top drawer. I compared this to the McGegan/HM version and much preferred this version, more dramatic for sure. Fortunately the hideous blue triangle on cover art is a promo sticker and peels off.

The Minkowski/Archiv Messiah is an unforunate missed opportunity and is not competitive with best versions out there, the tempo is pushed very hard in a few spots and does not develop fully.......it is still not as bad as many say but not competitive with best available.


The new erato

Quote from: DarkAngel on June 14, 2009, 10:01:16 AM
Not sure what an "objective" assessment would consist of, but I can comment on a couple Minkowski/Archiv releases.



This is an extremely strong release, it was mentioned at least once earlier in this thread.
There are no weak spots, as close to 10/10 as you can hope for. Even the recitativo parts are done with passion and dramatic intensity making them interesting prequels to main arias, sound quality is top drawer. I compared this to the McGegan/HM version and much preferred this version, more dramatic for sure. Fortunately the hideous blue triangle on cover art is a promo sticker and peels off.

The Hercules by the same forces I think is equally fine.

DarkAngel

Getting back to Handel "Cesare" CD versions......

I know the current thinking is to get the Jacobs/HM or Minkowski/Archiv, but the old warhorse RCA version featuring Beverly Sills as Cleopatra is so cheap used ($9 Amazon sellers) I cannot pass it up!

I realize it is an abridged 2CD version and uses a baritone for Cesare instead of tenor, but young Sills in her prime had a magnificent colortura voice with incredible range capable of the most demanding bel canto roles, don't believe I will regret this purchase!
(although Rod will surely say otherwise  ;) )


Bulldog

Quote from: DarkAngel on June 14, 2009, 10:13:15 AM
Getting back to Handel "Cesare" CD versions......

I know the current thinking is to get the Jacobs/HM or Minkowski/Archiv, but the old warhorse RCA version featuring Beverly Sills as Cleopatra is so cheap used ($9 Amazon sellers) I cannot pass it up!

I realize it is an abridged 2CD version and uses a baritone for Cesare instead of tenor, but young Sills in her prime had a magnificent colortura voice with incredible range capable of the most demanding bel canto roles, don't believe I will regret this purchase!
(although Rod will surely say otherwise  ;) )



I do hope you love that RCA set.  For me, a modern instrument performance just doesn't do the trick.

Coopmv

Quote from: Elgarian on June 14, 2009, 08:32:30 AM
Meanwhile, back at the homestead:

The sun is out, the breeze is light and warm, and I've been sitting in the garden listening the first act of Deborah, on headphones:



I had no idea... no idea how marvellous this would be. The singing is fabulous, the music intoxicating, the tunes infectious. I picked this up in Hyperion's half-price Handel sale (http://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/o.asp?o=1019), and I'm sorry to say that although the sale is still on, they seem to have pushed Deborah back up to full price at the moment. Worth keeping an eye on the sale, though, in case they drop the price again. It's excellent value even at full price; at half price it's a gift from Santa Claus.

I bought mine at a great discount from MDT except that mine is still in the cellophane since I am trying to finish listening to the following sets first.  I bought every Handel oratorio by the King's Consort on Hyperion that was on sale last month and I am not disappointed ...

 



Coopmv

Quote from: DarkAngel on June 14, 2009, 10:01:16 AM
Not sure what an "objective" assessment would consist of, but I can comment on a couple Minkowski/Archiv releases.



This is an extremely strong release, it was mentioned at least once earlier in this thread.
There are no weak spots, as close to 10/10 as you can hope for. Even the recitativo parts are done with passion and dramatic intensity making them interesting prequels to main arias, sound quality is top drawer. I compared this to the McGegan/HM version and much preferred this version, more dramatic for sure. Fortunately the hideous blue triangle on cover art is a promo sticker and peels off.

The Minkowski/Archiv Messiah is an unforunate missed opportunity and is not competitive with best versions out there, the tempo is pushed very hard in a few spots and does not develop fully.......it is still not as bad as many say but not competitive with best available.



I have two versions of the much older Ariodante by Raymond Leppard, one on LP and other on CD.  That recording is probably over 30 years old.  I also have the Ariodante highlight by McGegan.  I have over 20 versions of Messiah and really do not need anymore.  I think I may just focus on the single Handel CD's out there by Minkowski for now.  Thanks for the info ...    ;D

knight66

#316
Coopmv, At a rough estimate, how many discs do you have that you have not yet listened to?

I have one, James MacMillan, I will have to work myself up to it and that may take some time.

Mike
DavidW: Yeah Mike doesn't get angry, he gets even.
I wasted time: and time wasted me.

Coopmv

Quote from: Bulldog on June 14, 2009, 10:34:16 AM
I do hope you love that RCA set.  For me, a modern instrument performance just doesn't do the trick.

It looks like you do not like ANY of the Handel oratorios conducted by Neville Marriner and the ASMIF.  

Coopmv

Quote from: knight on June 14, 2009, 11:59:53 AM
Coopmv, At a rough estimate, how many discs do you have that you have not yet listened to?

I have one, James McMillan, I will have to work myself up to it and that may take some time.

Mike

Probably about 150.

Bulldog

Quote from: Coopmv on June 14, 2009, 12:00:37 PM
It looks like you do not like ANY of the Handel oratorios conducted by Neville Marriner and the ASMIF.  

You got that right.  Marriner's okay for Mozart's lighter works such as the Serenades, but I think he sucks in Handel and Bach.