Getting at Handel's operas and oratorios

Started by Tancata, July 10, 2007, 01:25:37 PM

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Bulldog

Quote from: Coopmv on June 14, 2009, 11:58:15 AM
 

I also have the Ariodante highlight by McGegan. 

Great opera and performance.  I'm glad I have the whole set.

Coopmv

Quote from: Bulldog on June 14, 2009, 12:21:32 PM
You got that right.  Marriner's okay for Mozart's lighter works such as the Serenades, but I think he sucks in Handel and Bach.

Well, the HIP movement for baroque recordings did not really hit the full stride until the 80's and is still evolving in a way.  I have St Matthew Passion by Mengelberg and Klemperer and found them quite enjoyable.  Those performances - the 1930's and 1950's simply reflect the prevailing interpretations of those eras.  I have the Brandenburg Concertos by Karl Richter and his Munich Bach Orchestra on DVD and even those performances could be considered somewhat HIP as the number of instrumentalists varied with the concertos.  I am not sure if you are aware of this.  You might have thought an old-school conductor like Richter had used his orchestra at full-strength for all works ...

Coopmv

Quote from: Bulldog on June 14, 2009, 12:25:31 PM
Great opera and performance.  I'm glad I have the whole set.

I generally do not buy highlight but since I knew little about McGegan at the time and I generally do not have very high opinions of American ensembles performing baroque works.

Bulldog

Quote from: Coopmv on June 14, 2009, 12:37:33 PM


I generally do not buy highlight but since I knew little about McGegan at the time and I generally do not have very high opinions of American ensembles performing baroque works.

BUY AMERICAN (now and then).

Bulldog

Quote from: Coopmv on June 14, 2009, 12:35:49 PM
Well, the HIP movement for baroque recordings did not really hit the full stride until the 80's and is still evolving in a way.  I have St Matthew Passion by Mengelberg and Klemperer and found them quite enjoyable.  Those performances - the 1930's and 1950's simply reflect the prevailing interpretations of those eras.  I have the Brandenburg Concertos by Karl Richter and his Munich Bach Orchestra on DVD and even those performances could be considered somewhat HIP as the number of instrumentalists varied with the concertos.  I am not sure if you are aware of this.  

Yes, I am aware.  Marriner still sucks. ;D

Elgarian

Quote from: Coopmv on June 14, 2009, 11:58:15 AM
  I have two versions of the much older Ariodante by Raymond Leppard, one on LP and other on CD.  That recording is probably over 30 years old.

The performances of Janet Baker are alone worth having that set for. Her 'Dopo notte' is blisteringly fine. Unanswerable, HIP or no HIP.

Coopmv

Quote from: Elgarian on June 14, 2009, 12:42:45 PM
The performances of Janet Baker are alone worth having that set for. Her 'Dopo notte' is blisteringly fine. Unanswerable, HIP or no HIP.


Agree.  Not all HIP recordings should be given an automatic pass.  OTOH, one should not summarily write off any non HIP performance either.  To the best of my knowledge, the only truly non-HIP baroque performances were made by Karajan and the BPO ...

Bulldog

Quote from: Coopmv on June 14, 2009, 12:47:21 PM



OTOH, one should not summarily write off any non HIP performance either.  To the best of my knowledge, the only truly non-HIP baroque performances were made by Karajan and the BPO ...

For some odd reason I feel that the Corkster is close at hand. :)

knight66

Leppard was largely responsible for a revival in the UK of Monteverdi opera and of Cavalli. He tinkered with the scores, making them richer. I agree his recording of Ariodante is very good. He also conducted a series of recitals with Janet Baker that anyone who enjoys great singing would not pass up. Bach, Gluck, Handel, Monteverdi and Mozart. These are on Decca, Phillips, EMI and Erato.

Mike
DavidW: Yeah Mike doesn't get angry, he gets even.
I wasted time: and time wasted me.

Elgarian

#329
Quote from: knight on June 14, 2009, 12:58:27 PM
Leppard was largely responsible for a revival in the UK of Monteverdi opera and of Cavalli. He tinkered with the scores, making them richer. I agree his recording of Ariodante is very good. He also conducted a series of recitals with Janet Baker that anyone who enjoys great singing would not pass up. Bach, Gluck, Handel, Monteverdi and Mozart.

Not to forget his extraordinary recording of Cavalli's La Calisto (also with JB).

Afternote: I'm going crackers. Sorry Mike - I read your post and quoted it without seeing 'Cavalli' up there at top right. Eyesight failing, clearly.

knight66

Quote from: Coopmv on June 14, 2009, 12:47:21 PM



Agree.  Not all HIP recordings should be given an automatic pass.  OTOH, one should not summarily write off any non HIP performance either.  To the best of my knowledge, the only truly non-HIP baroque performances were made by Karajan and the BPO ...

I think you will find, to name but two, Klemperer and Stokovsky approaches to Bach were not HIP in the sense used on this thread.

Mike
DavidW: Yeah Mike doesn't get angry, he gets even.
I wasted time: and time wasted me.

Coopmv

Quote from: knight on June 14, 2009, 12:58:27 PM
Leppard was largely responsible for a revival in the UK of Monteverdi opera and of Cavalli. He tinkered with the scores, making them richer. I agree his recording of Ariodante is very good. He also conducted a series of recitals with Janet Baker that anyone who enjoys great singing would not pass up. Bach, Gluck, Handel, Monteverdi and Mozart. These are on Decca, Phillips, EMI and Erato.

Mike

Agree.  I have been an early admirer of Raymond Leppard and many of the first baroque recordings on LP in my collection were conducted by him.  I believe Raymond Leppard was also the founder of the English Chamber Orchestra.

knight66

Quote from: Elgarian on June 14, 2009, 01:00:37 PM
Not to forget his extraordinary recording of Cavalli's La Calisto (also with JB).

Also a much admired disc of Haydn cantatas.

Mike
DavidW: Yeah Mike doesn't get angry, he gets even.
I wasted time: and time wasted me.

Coopmv

Quote from: Bulldog on June 14, 2009, 12:40:55 PM
BUY AMERICAN (now and then).

If I practice this philosophy, I will be driving a car made by one of the Detroit Three.  I only believe in financially rewarding the producers of quality goods, American or foreign.     ;D

Elgarian

Quote from: knight on June 14, 2009, 01:05:23 PM
Also a much admired disc of Haydn cantatas.

It was very kind of you to reply to my inept post, Mike! (See my apology in post #329)

Coopmv

Quote from: knight on June 14, 2009, 01:02:15 PM
I think you will find, to name but two, Klemperer and Stokovsky approaches to Bach were not HIP in the sense used on this thread.

Mike

I picked Karajan, as he had the biggest name from that bygone era ...

knight66

Really, no apology needed, but thanks. I agree, the Cavalli a groundbreaking recording in its time. There is also a DVD of Monteverdi's Return of Ulysses I think. Leppard was prolific and perhaps suffered from that. The ECO started to sound quite middle of the road. But some at least of these recordings show an enquiring mind and an attempt to bring something to the public by making it palatable. His turbo-Monteverdi is startling in a way.

Mike
DavidW: Yeah Mike doesn't get angry, he gets even.
I wasted time: and time wasted me.

knight66

Quote from: Coopmv on June 14, 2009, 01:11:09 PM


I picked Karajan, as he had the biggest name from that bygone era ...

Though as I think we once agreed, his early EMI Bach B Minor Mass was remarkably HIP and well ahead of its time, but I seem to have encouraged digression, sorry.

Mike
DavidW: Yeah Mike doesn't get angry, he gets even.
I wasted time: and time wasted me.

DarkAngel

Quote from: erato on June 14, 2009, 10:05:14 AM
The Hercules by the same forces I think is equally fine.

Yes I think you are right...............order has been placed for Minkowski/Archiv Hercules


Coopmv

Quote from: DarkAngel on June 15, 2009, 08:16:59 AM
Yes I think you are right...............order has been placed for Minkowski/Archiv Hercules



I think MDT is offering a good deal on this if you live in the UK.  The same deal is not as good for those of us who live in the land of the worthless dollar ...   :(