Getting at Handel's operas and oratorios

[DarkAngel]

I think MDT is offering a good deal on this if you live in the UK.  The same deal is not as good for those of us who live in the land of the worthless dollar ...  

I almost always buy from Amazon USA and usually buy used CDs unless new version is almost same price........

A question for Elgarian or anyone really
I just listened to my Curtis/Virgin Radamisto and really enjoyed it, so much so that I am again seriously considering the 16 CD  Curtis/Virgin boxset, what say ye kind sir............is this a wise allocation of funds?

 

For the price of 3 operas I can purchase the entire boxset, tempting.......I remember you mercifully ended your anguish by eventually purchasing the boxset  

[Coopmv]

I almost always buy from Amazon USA and usually buy used CDs unless new version is almost same price........

A question for Elgarian or anyone really
I just listened to my Curtis/Virgin Radamisto and really enjoyed it, so much so that I am again seriously considering the 16 CD  Curtis/Virgin boxset, what say ye kind sir............is this a wise allocation of funds?

 

For the price of 3 operas I can purchase the entire boxset, tempting.......I remember you mercifully ended your anguish by eventually purchasing the boxset  

It is nice to see someone who has such enthusiasm for Handel operas.  My objective for my Handel collection is to have as complete a collection of his oratorios as possible.  I have not intended to do the same for his operas.

[DarkAngel]

 
It is nice to see someone who has such enthusiasm for Handel operas.  My objective for my Handel collection is to have as complete a collection of his oratorios as possible.  I have not intended to do the same for his operas.

No reason to not expand collection to include Handel's operas........
Although operas are done in Italian, personally I think Italian language sounds more beautiful when sung compared to English, therefore I prefer them in general to oratorios. Perhaps you are drawn to the religious themes of the oratorios

Besides you are running out of oratorios to buy now aren't you....... 

[The new erato]

 

It is nice to see someone who has such enthusiasm for Handel operas.  My objective for my Handel collection is to have as complete a collection of his oratorios as possible.  I have not intended to do the same for his operas.

I am 100% the opposite of you. I consider his operas glorious, but object to too much use of choruses in the oratories. They lack the sensuality and too often the drama of the operas. I aim to have the operas complete and a decent sampling of the major oratorios (of course I will eventually end up with all the oratorios, I know I'm only fooling myself).

And go ahead and buy Dark Angel!

[Coopmv]

No reason to not expand collection to include Handel's operas........
Although operas are done in Italian, personally I think Italian language sounds more beautiful when sung compared to English, therefore I prefer them in general to oratorios. Perhaps you are drawn to the religious themes of the oratorios

Besides you are running out of oratorios to buy now aren't you....... 

Very true.  I am indeed getting close to running out of Handel oratorios to buy.  My enthusiasm for getting every version available for each oratorio is not high.  I tend to get many versions of a composer signature works.  For Bach, it is WTC, Brandenburg Concertos, St Matthew Passion, etc. and I have over 20 versions of Brandenburg Concertos and 10 versions each for the other two works.  For Handel, I have over 20 versions of Messiah and probably 10 versions of Concerto Grossi Op. 6.  For Beethoven, I have almost 20 Symphonies cycles and 7 versions of his Piano Sonatas.  I expect to get another one or two Wagner Ring cycles.  I currently have three.

[Elgarian]

A question for Elgarian or anyone really
I just listened to my Curtis/Virgin Radamisto and really enjoyed it, so much so that I am again seriously considering the 16 CD  Curtis/Virgin boxset, what say ye kind sir............is this a wise allocation of funds?

 

For the price of 3 operas I can purchase the entire boxset, tempting.......I remember you mercifully ended your anguish by eventually purchasing the boxset  

Indeed I did, and I'm almost ashamed to admit that I haven't listened to any of them yet. The problem is that I'm buying at a greater rate than I can listen, in order to take advantage of the Handel sales that keep popping up everywhere, and I have a mighty backlog.....

What tipped it for me was that because I love Handel operas, and because I've thoroughly enjoyed such Curtis stuff as I've heard so far, I know I'm going to want all these recordings, including Deidamia. But to buy the original issue of Deidamia now, secondhand, would cost me about as much as the whole box. So it simply didn't make sense not to get the box. Now it's here, sitting on the table, full of promise, I don't regret the decision in the least. And yes, I wish I had the proper booklets. But I'll cope.

[Elgarian]

I'm actually being a bit silly, and far too casual with my Handel backlog. I was doing some jobs this afternoon, rummaged around in the backlog heap, and popped this in the player to keep me company:



Well, really. I wasn't really listening properly, but had to keep stopping what I was doing because the music was demanding all my attention. Some fabulous singing by Natalie Dessay in this, and some pretty famous tunes too.

[bhodges]

Well, really. I wasn't really listening properly, but had to keep stopping what I was doing because the music was demanding all my attention. Some fabulous singing by Natalie Dessay in this, and some pretty famous tunes too.

I can't imagine hearing Dessay and being able to concentrate on much of anything else.   

Thanks, added to "that tiny wish list."

--Bruce

[Bulldog]

I am 100% the opposite of you. I consider his operas glorious, but object to too much use of choruses in the oratories. They lack the sensuality and too often the drama of the operas.

I don't make any significant distinction between Handel's operas and the oratorios, considering both to be vocal with orchestra (Handel's most compelling music).

[Elgarian]

I can't imagine hearing Dessay and being able to concentrate on much of anything else.   

I sympathise. If you'd like a sample, here you are:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2FLv-aVpY0

The only other version I've heard of this is by Cecilia Bartoli, who sings it with astonishing virtuosity that Dessay can't really match - and yet for all that, Dessay's version produces shivers up my spine and Bartoli's doesn't.

[bhodges]

I sympathise. If you'd like a sample, here you are:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2FLv-aVpY0

The only other version I've heard of this is by Cecilia Bartoli, who sings it with astonishing virtuosity that Dessay can't really match - and yet for all that, Dessay's version produces shivers up my spine and Bartoli's doesn't.

Oh thanks! 

I heard Dessay in La Fille du Regiment at the Met last year, and even though the opera itself really isn't my usual thing, she was charming beyond belief.  I mean, given her superb singing, she could be a terrible actress and still have a fine career, but the fact is: she's a marvelous actress.

--Bruce

[Elgarian]

I mean, given her superb singing, she could be a terrible actress and still have a fine career, but the fact is: she's a marvelous actress.

Oh yes, I share your enthusiasm. I mustn't send this Handel thread OT, but Dessay's Manon (with Villazon, and on DVD) is absolutely compelling. She becomes, now and forever, Manon.

Quick, back to Handel before anyone notices!

[bhodges]

Quick, back to Handel before anyone notices!

*[grin]*

--Bruce

[Coopmv]

I don't make any significant distinction between Handel's operas and the oratorios, considering both to be vocal with orchestra (Handel's most compelling music).

Toward his mid to late composing career, Handel was heading down the path of financial ruins with his operas since the Londoners got tired of them.  The oratorios saved him from absolute disaster.  I am not sure if the work is sung in English, then it is an oratorio.   

[The new erato]

 

Toward his mid to late composing career, Handel was heading down the path of financial ruins with his operas since the Londoners got tired of them.  The oratorios saved him from absolute disaster.  I am not sure if the work is sung in English, then it is an oratorio.   

Well, Acis and Galatea isn't an oratorio. And I don't think Hercules is considered one, either.

[Coopmv]

Well, Acis and Galatea isn't an oratorio. And I don't think Hercules is considered one, either.

Wiki Definition of Oratorio

[The new erato]

I know what an oratorio is, I've just seen those works described as a "semi-masque" and an English Opera respectively (I think Semele falls into the latter category as well) by knowledgeable people, perhaps in the booklets, which I haven't time to dig out.

The line can be thin though:

"However, opera is musical theatre, while oratorio is strictly a concert piece -- though oratorios are sometimes staged as operas, and operas are sometimes presented in concert form. In an oratorio there is generally little or no interaction between the characters, and no props or elaborate costumes."

[Elgarian]

The line can be thin though

If I'm listening (rather than watching), I don't notice a great deal of difference, with Handel, except that the oratorios have frequent recourse to choruses and the operas don't. I'm only just making a start on the oratorios, but listening to Deborah recently, in my mind's eye the characters were very 'present' and interacting - though I suppose I might have been aware of a certain kind of formality that's not present in the operas. (Not so with a masque like Acis and Galatea, which vividly brings the characters to life.) I could easily imagine these as staged dramatic performances - much as Theodora has been presented.

[Elgarian]

Flushed with the success of my experiment with Il Trionfo the other day (i.e. just whamming it into the player and listening to it as I go about my business without even reading beforehand what it's about except in the vaguest terms), I've been trying the same game with this today:



Well my goodness, I've no idea what the heck is going on, but what crackingly fine music there is here, in amongst all the thunderclaps! This is my first exposure to Minkowski's Handel, and I like it. I like everything about it. Some great tunes, some superwizzo singing, and some very unusual instrumental work going on at times. Noticing that Minkowski's Teseo can be had on Amazon for a mere £14 at the moment, I've immediately responded by ordering one.

Dark Angel - the Amadigi and Teseo are two of the recordings in that supercheap Minkowski box you bought - are you enjoying those as much as I am this? (The absurdity here is that by buying the original set I've got the libretto booklet - but haven't done more than merely glance at it so far.)

[DarkAngel]

Flushed with the success of my experiment with Il Trionfo the other day (i.e. just whamming it into the player and listening to it as I go about my business without even reading beforehand what it's about except in the vaguest terms), I've been trying the same game with this today:



Well my goodness, I've no idea what the heck is going on, but what crackingly fine music there is here, in amongst all the thunderclaps! This is my first exposure to Minkowski's Handel, and I like it. I like everything about it. Some great tunes, some superwizzo singing, and some very unusual instrumental work going on at times. Noticing that Minkowski's Teseo can be had on Amazon for a mere £14 at the moment, I've immediately responded by ordering one.

Dark Angel - the Amadigi and Teseo are two of the recordings in that supercheap Minkowski box you bought - are you enjoying those as much as I am this? (The absurdity here is that by buying the original set I've got the libretto booklet - but haven't done more than merely glance at it so far.)

I haven't listened yet, but yes those are the same versions as in the super cheap 6 CD Handel Minkowski boxset I just purchased for $16 at Amazon! I think it will turn out to be a wise investment