Getting at Handel's operas and oratorios

Started by Tancata, July 10, 2007, 01:25:37 PM

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Elgarian

Quote from: DarkAngel on June 16, 2009, 11:06:00 AM
I haven't listened yet, but yes those are the same versions as in the super cheap 6 CD Handel Minkowski boxset I just purchased for $16 at Amazon!

If you get a spare couple of minutes, take the second CD of Amadigi and give a spin to track 13 ('Tu mia speranza' in Act 2). The long driving bass notes and the jabbing higher strings produce a strange effect that I don't believe I've ever heard before in Handel - the whole thing sounds surprisingly 'modern' in fact. Or is it just me?

DarkAngel

Quote from: Elgarian on June 16, 2009, 12:17:23 PM
If you get a spare couple of minutes, take the second CD of Amadigi and give a spin to track 13 ('Tu mia speranza' in Act 2). The long driving bass notes and the jabbing higher strings produce a strange effect that I don't believe I've ever heard before in Handel - the whole thing sounds surprisingly 'modern' in fact. Or is it just me?

Sorry But I am one of the few people in USA that still must work for a living, so I will have to check that later tonight at home.

I have resolved the Curtis/Virgin Handel boxset purchase with minimal damage to my funds  :D

I placed order with Crotchet UK (no VAT for USA) for 31.91 pounds = $52.65 dollars
Shipping to USA is only a few extra dollars since they charge the same rate for boxset as single CD
And finally I can sell my new Radamisto opera set at Amazon for $20 used

So the boxset will only cost me an extra $36 total, life is good.........




Elgarian

Quote from: DarkAngel on June 16, 2009, 12:35:04 PM
So the boxset will only cost me an extra $36 total, life is good.........

Good for you! You know it makes sense ....

Coopmv

Quote from: DarkAngel on June 16, 2009, 11:06:00 AM
I haven't listened yet, but yes those are the same versions as in the super cheap 6 CD Handel Minkowski boxset I just purchased for $16 at Amazon! I think it will turn out to be a wise investment  



WarnerMusic has offered many box sets at very attractive prices.  I bought one set by Les Arts Florissants/Christe - Alcina & Orlando ...


DarkAngel

#364
Quote from: Elgarian on June 16, 2009, 12:17:23 PM
If you get a spare couple of minutes, take the second CD of Amadigi and give a spin to track 13 ('Tu mia speranza' in Act 2). The long driving bass notes and the jabbing higher strings produce a strange effect that I don't believe I've ever heard before in Handel - the whole thing sounds surprisingly 'modern' in fact. Or is it just me?

Yes I hear this same sound in numerous tracks............I suspect it is from various size theorbo as noted in booklet
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theorba

Perhaps Minkowski is using artistic liscense in various places, do you hear those distant reverberant vocals as in a far away choir loft on track 26 act III "han penetrato i detti", I noted some other unusual sounds throughout.......no problem sounds great to me

I also noted prominent woodwinds throughout and several orchestral sections reminded me of Water Music, checked dates and opera Amadigi 1715 very close to Water Music 1717............I suspect Handel recycled some ideas from Amadigi to use in Water Music.

I really liked the Minkowski Amadigi overall, so far having a hard time finding any Handel opera I do not like  :D

Coopmv

Quote from: DarkAngel on June 16, 2009, 06:30:24 PM
Yes I hear this same sound in numerous tracks............I suspect it is from various size theorbo as noted in booklet
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theorba

I also noted prominent woodwinds throughout and several orchestral sections reminded me of Water Music, checked dates and opera Amadigi 1715 very close to Water Music 1717............I suspect Handel recycled some ideas from Amadigi to use in Water Music.

I really liked the Minkowski Amadigi overall, so far having a hard time finding any Handel opera I do not like  :D

Are you familiar with MDT?  If so, how does it compare with Crotchet UK?  Shopping in the UK has become much less attractive these days as the Pound has gone up some 15% against the Dollar over the past few weeks.

DarkAngel

Quote from: Coopmv on June 16, 2009, 06:39:09 PM
Are you familiar with MDT?  If so, how does it compare with Crotchet UK?  Shopping in the UK has become much less attractive these days as the Pound has gone up some 15% against the Dollar over the past few weeks.

I only have used Presto and Crotchet in UK...........the key is what do they charge for shipping to USA?
Presto is very reasonable and Crotchet ships any boxset for same price as 1CD

That price at Crotchet of 31.91 pounds for USA is lowest I have found anywhere for Curtis/Virgin boxset, much lower that any seller at Amazon USA

Coopmv

Quote from: DarkAngel on June 16, 2009, 06:46:55 PM
I only have used Presto and Crotchet in UK...........the key is what do they charge for shipping to USA?
Presto is very reasonable and Crotchet ships any boxset for same price as 1CD

That price at Crotchet of 31.91 pounds for USA is lowest I have found anywhere for Curtis/Virgin boxset, much lower that any seller at Amazon USA


I paid a little over £24 in S&H when I ordered the mammoth 60-CD Harnoncourt Bach Cantatas set plus 2 other CD's.  That is close to $40 at current exchange rate and is the most I have ever paid for CD S&H.  But this has to do with the dollar or pound value of the shipment.  I received that order in 2 days (a record time) after it was shipped.  It arrived on a Saturday and I actually had to sign for it.  The only MDT order I have received that required a signature.  Supposedly, MDT charges 75 pence per CD but I have never really done the exact calculation.

DarkAngel

Just to clarify at Crotchet............boxset (up to 10 CDs) ships same price as 1CD
Since Curtis set is 16 discs costs more than 1CD shipping cost, but still a great deal

Elgarian

Quote from: DarkAngel on June 16, 2009, 06:30:24 PM
Yes I hear this same sound in numerous tracks............I suspect it is from various size theorbo as noted in booklet
It wasn't just the sound, as such, that surprised me, but the particular kind of harmonies, coupled with that rhythmic, pulsing effect (very fresh and exciting) - I don't know how else to describe it, but I know I haven't heard it elsewhere. (That probably just tells you how little I know!)

QuoteI really liked the Minkowski Amadigi overall, so far having a hard time finding any Handel opera I do not like  :D

Same for me. The real shock would be finding one I disliked.

Elgarian

Quote from: DarkAngel on June 13, 2009, 09:21:36 AM
I only have one Handel DVD currently:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O29B1YR8yBA

I have not sat down and watched every minute but my initial quick 20 minute chapter scan indicates I will be keeping this performance.

I was going to buy that Rousset Serse, as I threatened a couple of days ago, but now I'm dithering, wondering about this alternative:



The reason for this is that the Rousset looks rather dark, cold and grey - in fact very much like the Curtis Ariodante DVD, which I bought recently (and which also features Hallenberg). The ENO Serse, on the other hand, is visually very different, and I'm inclined to go with that. Anyone have any thoughts?

DarkAngel

Quote from: Elgarian on June 17, 2009, 08:05:56 AM
I was going to buy that Rousset Serse, as I threatened a couple of days ago, but now I'm dithering, wondering about this alternative:



The reason for this is that the Rousset looks rather dark, cold and grey - in fact very much like the Curtis Ariodante DVD, which I bought recently (and which also features Hallenberg). The ENO Serse, on the other hand, is visually very different, and I'm inclined to go with that. Anyone have any thoughts?

Could be a worthy choice, was checking some youtube vids and first thing you notice is opera is in english......
Perhaps Xerxes/Serse is just not as great as Cesare for DVD performance?

I also stumbled upon our little angel Danielle de Niese in a new 2009 ROH production of Acis and Galatea
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cc0Slt12Mx4&feature=related


Elgarian

#372
Quote from: DarkAngel on June 18, 2009, 05:55:05 AM
I also stumbled upon our little angel Danielle de Niese in a new 2009 ROH production of Acis and Galatea
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cc0Slt12Mx4&feature=related

Thanks for this. There are a lot more clips on youtube, I see. Fabulous. Apparently this Royal Opera House double bill of Dido & Aeneas (with Sarah Connolly) and this Acis & Galatea are due for release on DVD later in the year.

DarkAngel

#373
Quote from: Elgarian on June 15, 2009, 11:42:33 AM
I'm actually being a bit silly, and far too casual with my Handel backlog. I was doing some jobs this afternoon, rummaged around in the backlog heap, and popped this in the player to keep me company:



Well, really. I wasn't really listening properly, but had to keep stopping what I was doing because the music was demanding all my attention. Some fabulous singing by Natalie Dessay in this, and some pretty famous tunes too.

I suspect you have a really great version there, our friends at Naive/Opus 111 have released some great recordings in new value price series including a great Trionfo: (better than the Minkowski version in 6 CD set above)



Rinaldo Alessandrini conducts a sparkling performance with Deborah York, Gemma Bertagnolli, Sara Mingardo
Sound quality could hardly be better, listening as I type........Handel seems to be an endless goldmine of opera/oratorio  ;)



DarkAngel

Elgarian
Did your Handel Cesare DVD set come with a booklet included?
I received my used set but no booklet was inside  >:(

Still waitng for the big Curtis/Virgin boxset to arrive from UK..........

Elgarian

Quote from: DarkAngel on June 20, 2009, 10:03:22 AM
Elgarian
Did your Handel Cesare DVD set come with a booklet included?
I received my used set but no booklet was inside  >:(

How annoying. Yes, there's a 16/18-ish page booklet with photos, a 4-page essay (in various languages), and chapter listings. I'd be inclined to contact the seller about it.

Elgarian

Quoteauthor=DarkAngel link=topic=2077.msg322767#msg322767 date=1245441295]
our friends at Naive/Opus 111 have released some great recordings in new value price series including a great Trionfo: (better than the Minkowski version in 6 CD set above)



Rinaldo Alessandrini conducts a sparkling performance with Deborah York, Gemma Bertagnolli, Sara Mingardo
Sound quality could hardly be better, listening as I type

That sounds like good news - do these cheap versions come with full documentation, libretto, translation etc?

DarkAngel

#377
Quote from: Elgarian on June 20, 2009, 12:31:05 PM
That sounds like good news - do these cheap versions come with full documentation, libretto, translation etc?

The Naive 2CD "Trionfo" booklet has libretto in 3 languages including English, cardboard slipcover

Elgarian

#378
I've been listening to this:



It's pleasant enough, and quite interesting, and yet I don't feel comfortable about it. I don't know whether this is just a matter of personal preference, but often I don't feel that two voices are very well matched. The opening pair (Dessay & Gens) don't seem to these ears to complement each other particularly well. The following pair (Claycomb & Panzarella) seem a little more satisfactory, but only when the next pair begin (Petibon & Agnew) do I find myself thinking, yes - this is OK. So we have all these stars, but something doesn't quite seem to be working as I might have hoped. Also - I'm not a great judge of this, I'm sure, so this may be my incompetent listening - but sometimes the accompaniment seems not to be integrated as well as I'd expect. So in 'Ma se mendace e vana', for instance, the organ plods (and I mean plods) along too loudly, to the extent that I want it to stop so I can just listening to the singing without the booming distraction.

The closest I get to shivers up the spine is with the lovely 'Ma se l'alma sempre geme' (Claycomb & Mingardo), but even there I have reservations. When I think of the brilliant couplings I've heard from time to time - for example, Patricia Petibon & Sophie Daneman, or Didonato & Ciofi, (two pairings where the singers seem to read each other exquisitely well) these varied combinations don't seem quite to match up.

So - interesting, full of star performers, and pleasant enough - but a bit short on star performances, and short on kicks, for me.

Coopmv

Quote from: DarkAngel on June 20, 2009, 01:07:40 PM
The Naive 2CD "Trionfo" booklet has libretto in 3 languages including English, cardboard slipcover

Here is the version I recently bought.  The work was actually not conducted by Robert King and I have not quite decided if I actually like the performance ...