Getting at Handel's operas and oratorios

Started by Tancata, July 10, 2007, 01:25:37 PM

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71 dB

Quote from: Elgarian on June 23, 2009, 07:28:26 AM
Meanwhile ... I am still plodding my way through this horrible production:

Well, 20 minutes every day will take you there in a week or so.  0:)
Spatial distortion is a serious problem deteriorating headphone listening.
Crossfeeders reduce spatial distortion and make the sound more natural
and less tiresome in headphone listening.

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Bulldog

Quote from: DarkAngel on June 21, 2009, 05:11:07 AM
I have never been that impressed with Bach cantatas, I have tried many times over 20+ years to get into them but they just seem a bit bland after extended listening.......the good news is that allows me more money/time to spend on Handel/Vivaldi vocal works which seem endlessly exciting by comparison.

Listening to Vivaldi is about as exciting as watching a cricket jump around the house. :D

Elgarian

Quote from: 71 dB on June 23, 2009, 09:18:08 AM
Well, 20 minutes every day will take you there in a week or so.  0:)

For those comforting words, I thank you; though alas, the end lies further off than that because I won't be able to get in my 20 minute shifts during the next couple of days. Still, I need the break...

bhodges

Quote from: Bulldog on June 23, 2009, 10:38:34 AM
Listening to Vivaldi is about as exciting as watching a cricket jump around the house. :D

;D  ;D  ;D

--Bruce

DarkAngel

#404
Quote from: Elgarian on June 23, 2009, 07:28:26 AM
Watching and listening to this, close to terminal boredom, even though limiting myself to 20-minute stretches, I have great difficulty in believing that Ariodante is one of my favourite Handel operas. I'm now halfway through, determined to reach the end, having paid serious money for it. It's become a matter of personal pride, like climbing a mountain or reaching the south pole. But oh, golly. The costumes are so unappealling - so ill-fitting. Ariodante looks ridiculous in a uniform that seems to have been designed to fit someone else. The acting is so wooden that I can't summon any sympathy for anyone, except Dalinda who actually sings beautifully and behaves like a human being. I haven't seen the other version by English National Opera, but surely it can't be worse than this.

Don't suffer needlessly, cut your losses, admit your mistake and move to greener pastures.........

For long opera DVDs I try to pre-screen them as much as possible with youtube clips before actually buying
Then after DVD is purchased I do a quick preliminary viewing by watching segments of each DVD chapter and see if I have a "keeper" or a disappointment. If it passes these tests then full viewing is done and enters into permanent collection, life is too short to be consumed by boring opera DVDs

After about 40-50 opera DVD purchases I have sold 30% of them and only kept the best as worthy of repeated viewings and remain in the permanent collection. Fortunately most opera DVDs have good used resale value.......

Elgarian

Quote from: DarkAngel on June 23, 2009, 11:08:29 AM
Don't suffer needlessly, cut your losses, admit your mistake and move to greener pastures.........

Well, at least I'm getting a break. I'm off to see Manon tomorrow night.

QuoteFor long opera DVDs I try to pre-screen them as much as possible with youtube clips before actually buying
Then after DVD is purchased I do a quick preliminary viewing by watching segments of each DVD chapter and see if I have a "keeper" or a disappointment. If it passes these tests then full viewing is done and enters into permanent collection, life is too short to be consumed by boring opera DVDs

This is all very sensible. I did watch some Youtube bits beforehand, but somehow it seemed to look and sound so much better in small 5-minute snatches ...

I'll see what happens when I tackle it again after the break!

Lethevich

I'd just like to quickly say what a good read this thread is continuing to be. I can't really contribute, but thanks!
Peanut butter, flour and sugar do not make cookies. They make FIRE.

Elgarian

Quote from: Lethe on June 23, 2009, 01:16:15 PM
I can't really contribute

You could watch the rest of my Ariodante DVD for me, if you like.

DarkAngel



I just recently had both of these Solomons in house and after listening to both I decided to go with the Gardiner.
One advantage for Gardiner his version fits on 2CD vs 3CD for McCreesh, but even without cost considerations I prefer
Gardiner overall. I am a big McCreesh fan and have his Theodora and Messiah, but this is one of Gardiners best Handel oratorio performances and singers sound slightly more inspired and orchestral work a bit more dramatic.

I would have been happy with McCreesh, but given the choice I took Gardiner........the McCressh sold very quickly at Amazon  :D

Anyone have a favorite Solomon they can comment on............

DarkAngel

#409
My Handel new arrivals include:




And of course the Curtis boxset:


DarkAngel

Quote from: Elgarian on June 23, 2009, 01:23:21 PM
You could watch the rest of my Ariodante DVD for me, if you like.

It is time to move on to the Curtis boxset........
Unfortunately any potential customers here for used Ariodante DVD have been scared off  >:D

Coopmv

Quote from: DarkAngel on June 25, 2009, 05:47:42 AM
My Handel new arrivals include:



And of course the Curtis boxset:



These two sets should be nice.  I have never liked Renee Jacobs much.

Que

Quote from: Coopmv on June 25, 2009, 05:43:58 PM
These two sets should be nice.  I have never liked RenĂ© Jacobs much.

As a singer, as a conductor, or both?

Q

Elgarian

Quote from: DarkAngel on June 25, 2009, 05:54:11 AM
It is time to move on to the Curtis boxset........

You're right, although having just been swept away by Scottish Opera's fabulous production of Manon, I may be in for a swing back to my Massenet CD sets in the immediate future.

QuoteUnfortunately any potential customers here for used Ariodante DVD have been scared off  >:D

I was only kidding. It really is very good ... honestly ...  :'(

DarkAngel



Interesting to compare the early Italian version of Acis & Galatea by Haim/Virgin to the later expanded English 2 act pastoral opera version by Christie/Erato.

For a few reasons I prefer the early version
-I almost always prefer the sound of vocals in Italian vs English
-Haim uses two females Piau/Mingardo as the lovers Acis/Galatea, Christie uses male/female couple with Agnew/Sophie Daneman
the female version seems more beautiful and more interesting interplay of voices, more ornamentation vocally
Haim uses baritone for Polyphemus providing large contrast to two women lovers, Christie version has tenor
-the early version is slightly faster more dramatic tempo compared to the "pastoral" tempo of later version

Anyone else compared these two and have some thoughts?




Elgarian

#415
Quote from: DarkAngel on June 26, 2009, 10:06:07 AM


For a few reasons I prefer the early version
-I almost always prefer the sound of vocals in Italian vs English
-Haim uses two females Piau/Mingardo as the lovers Acis/Galatea, Christie uses male/female couple with Agnew/Sophie Daneman
the female version seems more beautiful and more interesting interplay of voices, more ornamentation vocally
Haim uses baritone for Polyphemus providing large contrast to two women lovers, Christie version has tenor
-the early version is slightly faster more dramatic tempo compared to the "pastoral" tempo of later version

Anyone else compared these two and have some thoughts?

I can't comment comparatively in the way you asked, but certainly I can comment. I stumbled across Christie's Acis and Galatea primarily because it was Christie + Daneman + Petibon - a combination I'd grown to love through their French baroque recordings and particularly because the Daneman/Petibon pairing seemed made in Heaven. Their version of Acis was quite a revelation - it was the first major 'Arcadian' Handel work I'd heard, and I loved everything about it, playing it over and over. So I really am quite devoted to the Christie recording you have there.

However, I was unaware that there existed another version with a female Acis, and I can imagine that such a combination could be very beautiful, as you say. So at this point all I can really say is thank you for pointing me towards this alternative, which I think I shall have to try. This, plus the Italian instead of English, must make them very different works.

Oh but wait! I've just realised that I've completely misunderstood the relation between these two - and that A, G and P is really a very different creature in conception (as a small-scale cantata) to the later A and G masque (very nearly an opera). So this is merely to acknowledge my error; however, the fact still stands that I need to know both.

DarkAngel

#416
Yes you have it.................the original early 1708 version was a very long Italian cantata (requires 2Cds at 99 minutes)
Handel later used same story to create the 2 act English language "pastoral" opera....the Christie/Erato version, very confusing

Did you know that Emanuelle Haim is a very attractive female conductor........what a lovely female trio of artists Haim/Piau/Mingardo

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.bach-cantatas.com/Pic-Bio-BIG/Haim-Emmanuelle-13.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.bach-cantatas.com/Bio/Haim-Emmanuelle-2.htm&usg=__3GxPJu64VSpmOzBh6yOlz6QsrQ0=&h=385&w=569&sz=50&hl=en&start=12&um=1&tbnid=Ry8T05Iv-S4-_M:&tbnh=91&tbnw=134&prev=/images%3Fq%3Demmanuelle%2Bhaim%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26rls%3Dcom.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox%26rlz%3D1I7ADBF%26sa%3DX%26um%3D1



Elgarian

Quote from: DarkAngel on June 26, 2009, 01:02:02 PM
Did you know that Emanuelle Haim is a very attractive female conductor........what a lovely female trio of artists Haim/Piau/Mingardo

Indeed I did. I have her excellent Il Trionfo, and also her (rather disappointing) recording of Handel Arcadian Duets with a collection of ill-assorted stars (reported on earlier in this thread).

On the whole, I'm still in the 'getting to know you' stage with Piau and Mingardo. Piau is flawless and a tremendous virtuoso performer, but I've yet to be moved much by her singing. Her acclaimed collection of Handel arias leaves me admiring the skill, but not really loving the music. Mingardo sounds rather stern and masculine - again, I don't immediately warm to her. I'm still trying to become fond of their recently released collection of Handel duets and arias, and making a little progress, I think ...

71 dB

Teseo DVD didn't arrive fast enough for this weekend. Damn!  :-\
Spatial distortion is a serious problem deteriorating headphone listening.
Crossfeeders reduce spatial distortion and make the sound more natural
and less tiresome in headphone listening.

My Sound Cloud page <-- NEW Jan. 2024 "Harpeggiator"

Elgarian

Quote from: 71 dB on June 27, 2009, 12:49:16 AM
Teseo DVD didn't arrive fast enough for this weekend. Damn!

"I weep for you," the Walrus said:
"I deeply sympathize."
He watched the postman walk away
With heartfelt sobs and sighs,
Holding his pocket-handkerchief
Before his streaming eyes.