Getting at Handel's operas and oratorios

Started by Tancata, July 10, 2007, 01:25:37 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Elgarian

Quote from: DarkAngel on June 25, 2009, 05:54:11 AM


It is time to move on to the Curtis boxset........

OK. Lunchtime. Sitting by the window looking out into the garden. Toasted tuna sandwiches. A really great cup of coffee. Plums and oranges. And, extracted from the Curtis box almost at random, the first act of Radamisto. I have no idea of the plot; couldn't be bothered to go through all that computer nonsense with pdfs and the like, beforehand; so I just listened to it as a piece of music, with the tracklisting in front of me so I could tell who was singing when.

Well, not to put too fine a point on it, and apologising in advance that sometimes it's necessary to use technical language in order adequately to express one's meaning, I would like to say that this is absolutely bloomin' marvellous. The cast is stellar - Dominique Labelle, Patrizia Ciofi, and Joyce DiDonato, just for starters - and they sound like stars, by golly. I'll be interested to hear what you think, DA, but if you're disappointed with this then I'll ... I'll ... well, I'll eat my pdf libretto CD.

DarkAngel

#421
Elgarian
I mentioned a couple pages back how after listening to the same Curtis/Virgin Radamisto I became convinced that I must have the entire Curtis boxset........ :D
I was able to sell Radamisto quickly used for a great price so the boxset cost me very little really. A great performance with excellent balanced sound, I don't think all 6 operas will match that same high standard but I think I (we) made a wise purchase!

Previously to that I purchased my first Curtis/Archiv opera with Handel Alcina which I mentioned very favorably here.
Rod quickly reminded me I made a mistake not getting the Christie/Erato set  >:D

Coopmv

Quote from: Elgarian on June 27, 2009, 08:58:41 AM
OK. Lunchtime. Sitting by the window looking out into the garden. Toasted tuna sandwiches. A really great cup of coffee. Plums and oranges. And, extracted from the Curtis box almost at random, the first act of Radamisto. I have no idea of the plot; couldn't be bothered to go through all that computer nonsense with pdfs and the like, beforehand; so I just listened to it as a piece of music, with the tracklisting in front of me so I could tell who was singing when.

Well, not to put too fine a point on it, and apologising in advance that sometimes it's necessary to use technical language in order adequately to express one's meaning, I would like to say that this is absolutely bloomin' marvellous. The cast is stellar - Dominique Labelle, Patrizia Ciofi, and Joyce DiDonato, just for starters - and they sound like stars, by golly. I'll be interested to hear what you think, DA, but if you're disappointed with this then I'll ... I'll ... well, I'll eat my pdf libretto CD.

So this big box of Alan Curtis's Handel is really that good?  Who on the web offers the best deal?

Elgarian

Quote from: Coopmv on June 27, 2009, 11:06:26 AM
So this big box of Alan Curtis's Handel is really that good?

Careful! Remember I've only listened to 1 CD (well, actually, two - because I've listened to the second act of Radamisto now also, which continues to be fabulously delectable). As DA says, we don't know whether the rest will live up to this standard. But even so I'm optimistic, I must say. As they point out at PrestoClassical: "No less than three of these operatic recordings have won the International Handel Recording Prize: Arminio in 2002, Deidamia in 2004 and Radamisto in 2006." It costs £45 at Presto, £39 at MDT.

Elgarian

Quote from: DarkAngel on June 27, 2009, 09:56:57 AM
I mentioned a couple pages back how after listening to the same Curtis/Virgin Radamisto I became convinced that I must have the entire Curtis boxset........ :D

Of course you're right. Sorry, I'd forgotten which one it was you'd already got. Well anyway, we're off to a great start!

Coopmv

While I am only a third of the way listening through this CD and jump around a bit, I am not convinced it is a worthy challenger to the much older recording by Christopher Hogwood and Emma Kirkby.  This CD just does not have that very melodious flow which is so characteristic of the Hogwood's CD.  While the two CD's only have the selections Tra le Fiamme (Il consiglio), cantata, HWV 170 in common, Kozena seems to force it a little at certain passage while Emma just got it right in the most natural way.  To be sure, Kozena is a much more attractive woman than Kirkby, her singing is still no match for the latter IMO.  I also do not think Les Musiciens du Lourvre is a better ensemble than the AAM under Hogwood.  AAM with Catherine MacIntosh and Monica Huggett in its rank just kicked ass ...





Elgarian

Quote from: Coopmv on June 27, 2009, 02:19:37 PM
While I am only a third of the way listening through this CD and jump around a bit, I am not convinced it is a worthy challenger to the much older recording by Christopher Hogwood and Emma Kirkby.  This CD just does not have that very melodious flow which is so characteristic of the Hogwood's CD.  While the two CD's only have the selections Tra le Fiamme (Il consiglio), cantata, HWV 170 in common, Kozena seems to force it a little at certain passage while Emma just got it right in the most natural way.  To be sure, Kozena is a much more attractive woman than Kirkby, her singing is still no match for the latter IMO.


Interesting you should say this. On the strength of Kozena's collection of Handel arias (which has some truly outstanding performances, I think - perhaps some of the best I know) I too bought this cantatas disc that you have here; and I too am disappointed by it. It does often seem forced, as you say, and becomes quite wearing. I find myself wanting to ask her to relax and let the music come through. I think it predates the arias collection by a few years, and I think a lot of change must have taken place during that time. So I'd recommend that you don't rule Kozena out on the basis of this CD.

Coopmv

Quote from: Elgarian on June 27, 2009, 11:36:28 PM
Interesting you should say this. On the strength of Kozena's collection of Handel arias (which has some truly outstanding performances, I think - perhaps some of the best I know) I too bought this cantatas disc that you have here; and I too am disappointed by it. It does often seem forced, as you say, and becomes quite wearing. I find myself wanting to ask her to relax and let the music come through. I think it predates the arias collection by a few years, and I think a lot of change must have taken place during that time. So I'd recommend that you don't rule Kozena out on the basis of this CD.

I will not rule out Kozena on the basis of one CD.  I already had a few Kozena's CD's and found them reasonably good.  But for this particular CD and the selection Tra le Fiamme (Il consiglio), cantata, HWV 170 , not only Emma Kirkby sounded superior, the playing of AAM was also vastly superior to Les Musiciens du Lourvre - more full bodied and articulate.  My last order from MDT also included a few other CD's by Minkowski and Kozena and I shall find out what they are like soon enough.

DarkAngel

I welcome these more individual and stylish performances by artists like Kozena, Danielle de Neise etc while recognizing they are not for everyone. The further you stray from convention the more feathers will get ruffled........but I would never want to clip the wings of these beautiful elegant song birds

The scathing comments that Danielle de Niese collection gets from many people at Amazon shows how entrenched conventional tastes are in classical music crowd. Of course if she had no singing skill it is understandable, but I think many just don't have an open mind to individual expression






Coopmv

Quote from: DarkAngel on June 28, 2009, 11:58:53 AM
I welcome these more individual and stylish performances by artists like Kozena, Danielle de Neise etc while recognizing they are not for everyone. The further you stray from convention the more feathers will get ruffled........but I would never want to clip the wings of these beautiful elegant song birds

The scathing comments that Danielle de Niese collection gets from many people at Amazon shows how entrenched conventional tastes are in classical music crowd. Of course if she had no singing skill it is understandable, but I think many just don't have an open mind to individual expression




I know nothing about Danielle de Niese, though I have seen this particular CD getting promoted on a number of websites.  I much prefer to deal with a known quantity like


Elgarian

Quote from: DarkAngel on June 28, 2009, 11:58:53 AM
The scathing comments that Danielle de Niese collection gets from many people at Amazon shows how entrenched conventional tastes are in classical music crowd. Of course if she had no singing skill it is understandable, but I think many just don't have an open mind to individual expression

Indeed. If there were no Danielle, there'd have been no Glyndebourne Giulio Cesare (at least, not in the form we now know it). And then where would we be?

Bulldog

Quote from: Coopmv on June 28, 2009, 12:02:52 PM
I know nothing about Danielle de Niese, though I have seen this particular CD getting promoted on a number of websites.  I much prefer to deal with a known quantity like



Take a chance on de Niese - be a risk taker.  8)

Coopmv

Quote from: Bulldog on June 28, 2009, 12:23:02 PM
Take a chance on de Niese - be a risk taker.  8)

I live in a time warp and do not always feel like getting the latest.  I drive a Honda, though I know people who are financially less well off than myself driving bimmers or MB's.  It looks like Danielle de Niese is being hailed as the new Kiri Te Kanawa ...

DarkAngel

Quote from: Elgarian on June 28, 2009, 12:05:49 PM
Indeed. If there were no Danielle, there'd have been no Glyndebourne Giulio Cesare (at least, not in the form we now know it). And then where would we be?

Great point, we would be forced to watch things like:   >:D




Elgarian

Quote from: Coopmv on June 28, 2009, 01:44:46 PM
It looks like Danielle de Niese is being hailed as the new Kiri Te Kanawa ...

More like opera's answer to Kylie Minogue, I should think. Coop, when you say you know nothing of her, that suggests you haven't seen the famous Glyndebourne Giulio Cesare DVD - is that so?

Here she is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJ-EzvZs94I&feature=related

Elgarian

Quote from: DarkAngel on June 28, 2009, 03:04:52 PM
Great point, we would be forced to watch things like:   >:D


No! No! Anything but that!  :o

DarkAngel

#436
Quote from: DarkAngel on June 25, 2009, 05:47:42 AM
My Handel new arrivals include:


Oratorio update.........

The Minkowski/Archiv Hercules did not wow me too much, I was a bit bored overall to be honest.......
Nothing to do with Minkowski's performance I suspect, I just think I am not going to be a fan of Hercules oratorio in general, some money finally saved  :)

The Jacobs/HM Saul was a dazzling performance by comparison, much more drama and forward momentum to this work
A real spontaneous feel to this with highly detailed sound recording, very impressed with this!
I have Jacobs new Mozart operas also.......this conductor is one of my very favorite for baroque opera so far!


DarkAngel

#437
Quote from: Elgarian on June 28, 2009, 10:56:29 PM
More like opera's answer to Kylie Minogue, I should think. Coop, when you say you know nothing of her, that suggests you haven't seen the famous Glyndebourne Giulio Cesare DVD - is that so?

Here she is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJ-EzvZs94I&feature=related

Almost certainly the best Handel opera DVD currently available, check this review with a very good description of Danielle's talents in paragraph 3:

http://www.classicstoday.com/review.asp?ReviewNum=10090

Danielle de Niese is just impossible to resist........she will surely cost me much money in the future!

Bulldog

Quote from: Coopmv on June 28, 2009, 01:44:46 PM


I live in a time warp and do not always feel like getting the latest.  I drive a Honda, though I know people who are financially less well off than myself driving bimmers or MB's. 

I drive a 1988 Honda - the best car I ever had and easily as good as any expensive piece of depreciating junk.  I'll never understand the "status" nonsense about certain vehicles, but it has nothing to do with reliable transporation.

Elgarian

Quote from: DarkAngel on June 29, 2009, 12:34:21 PM
Almost certainly the best Handel opera DVD currently available

Let's commit ourselves: Certainly the best Handel opera DVD currently available  ;D