Getting at Handel's operas and oratorios

[Anne]

Thank you for that recommendation.  I will get it as soon as possible.  I do appreciate the help and will stick with Handel for now.  One thing at a time.  You have a lot of experience which I respect. 

[DarkAngel]

Anne,
My love for Handel's oratorios pre-dated my serious interest in JS Bach passions by a more than a decade.  I only started to get seriously interested in St Matthew Passion a few years ago.  My 9 sets of St Matthew Passion on CD were all purchased in the past three years while the 2 sets on LP have been languishing on the shelf for the last twenty years.  Great singing in a Handel's oratorio is the prerequisite for good listening and virtuoso orchestral playing is just icing on the cake.  Here is the first Handel oratorio that I truly enjoyed that started almost 30 years ago.  Indeed, some on the forum would myopically deride it as non-HIP.  But the soprano singing by Elly Ameling was nothing short of exquisite.  After all, female vocalists like Elly Ameling and Janet Baker from the 70's were some of the greatest singers from the last 50 years ...

No we would never want to dissuade open discussion of different styles...... 0:)
but my three favorite Messiahs are all newer HIP versions:

[Elgarian]

No we would never want to dissuade open discussion of different styles......

One of my favourite versions of 'Dopo Notte' is Janet Baker's, with Raymond Leppard conducting. It's as un-HIP as they come, but who could care? The way the pace, tempo, urgency is picked up at about 1m30s is sheer rock&roll, and after that there's no looking back. You can sense Ariodante strutting back and forth, punching the air with sheer joy. This is how to do it, folks, HIP or no HIP.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GiTNGWx9rnU

[DarkAngel]

One of my favourite versions of 'Dopo Notte' is Janet Baker's, with Raymond Leppard conducting. It's as un-HIP as they come, but who could care? The way the pace, tempo, urgency is picked up at about 1m30s is sheer rock&roll, and after that there's no looking back. You can sense Ariodante strutting back and forth, punching the air with sheer joy. This is how to do it, folks, HIP or no HIP.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GiTNGWx9rnU

Looks like this performance has recently been released as a reduced price Phillips Trio:



That was very nice sample, much better than I expected as Baker has stylish and beautiful dramatic ornaments, singing both boldly and with great tonal beauty.....surely she is the best baroque female voice from the pre-HIP era singers. The orchestra playing by Leppard is nicely sprung rythms, but compared to todays HIP standards a bit smoothed out and not as clarified or transparent textures

[Elgarian]

The orchestra playing by Leppard is nicely sprung rythms, but compared to todays HIP standards a bit smoothed out and not as clarified or transparent textures

Oh yes, certainly. But it still rocks in my book.

Another way to get this is to buy the excellent Janet Baker box:



5 discs in the set, of which the second consists almost entirely of Handel arias recorded with Leppard.

[DavidRoss]

Oh yes, certainly. But it still rocks in my book.

I think the technical term for Ms Baker's performance in the youtube clip is "bitchin'!"  (Apologies to those who were not teenagers in southern California during the 1960s.)  In other words, it forced me to search Amazon and to order a copy of the complete opera recording with Baker in the title role (even though I might prefer Minkowski or McGegan at the helm).

[Elgarian]

In other words, it forced me to search Amazon and to order a copy of the complete opera recording with Baker in the title role (even though I might prefer Minkowski or McGegan at the helm).

Well the way I see it is that if I've run out of money of my own to spend, I may as well find ways to encourage other people to spend theirs, and so enjoy the spending process vicariously. Rock on with Ray and Janet, Dave!

[DarkAngel]

One of my favourite versions of 'Dopo Notte' is Janet Baker's, with Raymond Leppard conducting. It's as un-HIP as they come, but who could care? The way the pace, tempo, urgency is picked up at about 1m30s is sheer rock&roll, and after that there's no looking back. You can sense Ariodante strutting back and forth, punching the air with sheer joy. This is how to do it, folks, HIP or no HIP.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GiTNGWx9rnU

Listened a couple more times to the dazzling run of embellishments from 1:40->2:50, wonderfully exciting and dramatic yet in complete harmony with the music.......a true artist at work here

Do not hate me, but I would prefer just a touch of trill at times as some modern baroque singers use..........

[Elgarian]

Do not hate me, but I would prefer just a touch of trill at times as some modern baroque singers use..........

Of course I won't hate you.

But I am looking for something to do with this custard pie.

[Coopmv]

No we would never want to dissuade open discussion of different styles...... 0:)
but my three favorite Messiahs are all newer HIP versions:

I have had the Pinnock's Messiah for years.  Personally, I prefer the Hogwood's Messiah a bit more since the soloists are definitely better.  Gardiner's Messiah is actually my first HIP version and I also have the two versions by Harnoncourt.
The 76 Marriner's Messiah excels in the singing department, which is entirely independent of the argument of modern instruments vs. period instruments.  The beautiful soprano singing of Elly Ameling simply cannot be diminished by the modern instruments used in that recording ...

[DarkAngel]

 

I have had the Pinnock's Messiah for years.  Personally, I prefer the Hogwood's Messiah a bit more since the soloists are definitely better.  Gardiner's Messiah is actually my first HIP version and I also have the two versions by Harnoncourt.
The 76 Marriner's Messiah excels in the singing department, which is entirely independent of the argument of modern instruments vs. period instruments.  The beautiful soprano singing of Elly Ameling simply cannot be diminished by the modern instruments used in that recording ...

Can't really say anything bad about Hogwood........if I would extend list to top 6 Messiahs then Hogwood would make the list.
Historically very important since it influenced every HIP performance that followed.

The reason that I prefer Pinnock over Hogwood is that having the benefit of hindsight Pinnock takes all the best qualities of Hogwood and refines them into a more integrated hybrid style while still keeping the fresh clarified textures of Hogwood.....vocals of Von Otter and company sound very dramatic and fresh for Pinnock

[DarkAngel]

I now have all my Cesare bases covered, my Jacobs/HM CD set just arrived to join the Christie DVD..........

[Elgarian]

I now have all my Cesare bases covered, my Jacobs/HM CD set just arrived to join the Christie DVD..........

Well done, that man.

Those are the versions I have too. Wonderful stuff.

[Coopmv]

Can't really say anything bad about Hogwood........if I would extend list to top 6 Messiahs then Hogwood would make the list.
Historically very important since it influenced every HIP performance that followed.

The reason that I prefer Pinnock over Hogwood is that having the benefit of hindsight Pinnock takes all the best qualities of Hogwood and refines them into a more integrated hybrid style while still keeping the fresh clarified textures of Hogwood.....vocals of Von Otter and company sound very dramatic and fresh for Pinnock

While I like Von Otter and have many of her recordings, I think it is a stretch to say she is superior to all the sopranos and mezzo-sopranos out there for Handel operas/oratorios.  I think Pinnock generally excels in instrumental music by Handel compared with Hogwood and Gardiner. 

[Coopmv]

Well done, that man.

Those are the versions I have too. Wonderful stuff.

I will try out this version this weekend.  My first Handel's opera by Minkowski ...

[Coopmv]

Here is one of my early baroque vocal works favorites by Raymond Leppard and the ECO ...

[Anne]

Nice to see the word "Ramey" on that disc.  He is one of my favorite singers.

[Coopmv]

I am currently listening to this set.  Is anyone familiar with it?  I got this set along with most of the other King's Consort's Handel oratorios that were on sale at MDT 2 months ago ...

[Elgarian]

I am currently listening to this set.  Is anyone familiar with it?  I got this set along with most of the other King's Consort's Handel oratorios that were on sale at MDT 2 months ago ...

It's almost the only one on Hyperion's half-price list that I haven't bought ....

[knight66]

Yesterday I was listening to record review: they were comparing versions of Handel's Acis and Galatea. Listening along, despite the misgivings of the reviewer, I especially took to the extracts of the Christie version. I decided to order it and discovered that it was more cost effective to order a new compendium box that also has his version of Theodora.

I have the Glyndbourne version on DVD, but no CD version I know of has come close. In my collection I have an ancient heavily cut performance, kept due to  the singing, and the McCreech version which does not pack remotely the emotional wallop of Christie/Daniels/Hunt-Lieberson/Upshaw. I hope the CD version with different singers will be more to my taste than McCreech. Daniel Taylor is singing Dydimus, so I have some hopes.

Yesterday there must have been something in the water...I also ordered Mendelssohn Piano Trios, Suk Asrael, Greig and Schumann piano concertos...then went into town and bought, Walton's 1st Symphony, Korngold Die Tote Stadt, Martinu Scenes from Juliette and Dvorak's Mass in D minor and Te Deum.

Mike