Getting at Handel's operas and oratorios

Started by Tancata, July 10, 2007, 01:25:37 PM

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DarkAngel

Elgarian
Haim/Virgin set for Aci, Galatea e Polifemo cantata uses same vocalist arrangement

Aci - soprano (Sandrine Piau)
Galatea - alto (Sara Mingardo)

The new erato

Quote from: DarkAngel on July 20, 2009, 12:16:25 PM

It is almost impossible to find a weak work among Handel's early Italian opera/cantata output.
The English oratorios are less appealing to me in general  
My sentiments exactly.

Coopmv

Quote from: erato on July 20, 2009, 01:52:35 PM
My sentiments exactly.

Looking back, it is interesting so see that Handel switched to oratorios when the English people lost their interests in his operas, which nearly ruined him financially. 

DarkAngel

Quote from: Coopmv on July 20, 2009, 04:50:17 PM
Looking back, it is interesting so see that Handel switched to oratorios when the English people lost their interests in his operas, which nearly ruined him financially. 

More reasons for switch to english language oratorio format:

1)Much cheaper to stage an oratorio, did not use elaborate stage settings like operas, not as much money would be lost if
work had short performance run.

2)Not only did audience better understand the english language works, but also leaders in power did not like Italian culture "forced" upon the population and preferred for nationalistic reasons Handel to produce english language works

Coopmv

#584
Quote from: DarkAngel on July 20, 2009, 06:34:45 PM
More reasons for switch to english language oratorio format:

1)Much cheaper to stage an oratorio, did not use elaborate stage settings like operas, not as much money would be lost if
work had short performance run.

2)Not only did audience better understand the english language works, but also leaders in power did not like Italian culture "forced" upon the population and preferred for nationalistic reasons Handel to produce english language works

Handel was probably able to charge more for admissions to his operas and thereby offset some of the higher expenses.  The bottomline all came down to public reception.

Handel did not begin to compose oratorios in earnest until the 1740's, shortly after George III became the English monarch who was also the third British monarch of the House of Hanover who also spoke English.  Perhaps having an English speaking monarch did help ...


Elgarian

Quote from: DarkAngel on July 20, 2009, 12:16:25 PM
No you can say it...........you prefer the early Italian cantata version  ;)

Ha! I know you want me to, DA - but truly I can't say. The Christie/Daneman/Petibon/Agnew Acis & Galatea is such a superb performance that even if we were talking about the same work, I wouldn't know how to choose. I think this Brilliant classics Aci, Galatea e Polifemo is less outstanding performance-wise, but the music is certainly very fine. As I said - what a great stroke of luck to have both!

QuoteOne would normally think that a sea nymph like Galatea would get the soprano part and the shepard Aci would get the mezzo/alto
Yes - as you say later, it's the same on your Haim set. It was Handel's choice to switch the voices, I presume. Odd.

QuoteIt is almost impossible to find a weak work among Handel's early Italian opera/cantata output.

Yes. I have a fair collection now, and I wouldn't like to say there was a weak one among them.

QuoteThe English oratorios are less appealing to me in general

I don't have extensive experience of them yet, but from what I've heard so far, I find much the same.

Elgarian

#586


This will amuse DarkAngel, I think. I'm growing to love this more, and more. I tell myself to sample another opera from the Curtis box, but somehow this is what I find myself slipping into the player. It may be that this 'serenata' displaces the later Acis & Galatea masque in my affections eventually. Not in terms of performance - these singers don't, for me, reach the heights that Daneman etc reach. But for sheer lyrical delight, some of these arias take some beating, and there's a gorgeous trio in the second part. The whole thing is beautifully paced, too. My only quibble is that, at the end, I think we get just a bit too much of Polifemo, who narrates what's going on with Aci (now transformed into a river) at some length. This sort of makes sense dramatically, because he's actually the only character remaining; but since Aci and Galatea come back anyway for the last couple of minutes, it hardly seems to matter.

But who cares, really, when the music is this good. I will definitely get the Haim version; and I wonder if there are any others? I shall investigate. But if there's anyone out there reading this and wanting a quick Handelian thrill, and cheap - you can't do better than buy one of these 2CD sets on the Brilliant label.

71 dB

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knight66

Alan, I have the Haim recording. It is fine and dandy. The singers are excellent. It may sound odd when I cannot put my finger on it, but Haim's work does not really satisfy me. She garners praise, but I sense a lack of architectural grip, to my ears the piece feels episodic. But the music is nevertheless very lovely.

Mike
DavidW: Yeah Mike doesn't get angry, he gets even.
I wasted time: and time wasted me.

Elgarian

Quote from: knight on July 24, 2009, 11:27:44 PM
Alan, I have the Haim recording. It is fine and dandy. The singers are excellent. It may sound odd when I cannot put my finger on it, but Haim's work does not really satisfy me. She garners praise, but I sense a lack of architectural grip, to my ears the piece feels episodic. But the music is nevertheless very lovely.

I understand those misgivings to some extent Mike, because of my reaction to that collection of duets she did with a bundle of stars (Dessay, Petibon etc). It should have been wonderful - all those stars - and we know what we know about Handel's duets, do we not? But it remains an unsatisfactory hotchpotch.

I have Haim's Trionfo, which I enjoy very well - very well indeed, as a matter of fact - but I wonder if it too might seem episodic if compared with other versions? However, I definitely want to explore alternative versions of A, G, & Polifemo, and Haim's seems the obvious one to try unless anyone has any other suggestions?

DarkAngel

#590
Quote from: Elgarian on July 24, 2009, 01:02:15 PM
This will amuse DarkAngel, I think. I'm growing to love this more, and more. I tell myself to sample another opera from the Curtis box, but somehow this is what I find myself slipping into the player. It may be that this 'serenata' displaces the later Acis & Galatea masque in my affections eventually.

Ha ha the worm slowly turns........
There is just a certain spontaneity and excitement in his early Italian works that seems to have been subdued in his later English language period, perhaps it is just the bird of youthful fancy that was not yet reigned in

The Curtis boxset still patiently awaits my attention..........

Coopmv

#591
Just ordered this set this evening and began my quest of hopefully owning every Handel opera that is currently available.  Airmail from the UK is almost 20% of the price of this set ...    ???

I am giving a tiny shot in the arm for the UK economy.     ;D 



The new erato

Quote from: Coopmv on August 01, 2009, 04:39:54 PM
Just ordered this set this evening and began my quest of hopefully owning every Handel opera that is currently available.  Airmail from the UK is almost 20% of the price of this set ...    ???

I am giving a tiny shot in the arm for the UK economy.     ;D  



This set is now even further discounted at mdt; 27 £ .......

Elgarian

Quote from: erato on August 01, 2009, 10:32:26 PM


This set is now even further discounted at mdt; 27 £ .......

Indeed - they're almost giving them away now. We should've waited!!

I've just ordered these, to take advantage of Hyperion's July sale prices:

 

Coopmv

Quote from: Elgarian on August 02, 2009, 12:44:37 AM
Indeed - they're almost giving them away now. We should've waited!!

I've just ordered these, to take advantage of Hyperion's July sale prices:

 

I ordered the set at MDT, the only non-US e-tailer I have ever dealt with.  The airmail cost to the US is almost 20% of the price.

DarkAngel

Quote from: Coopmv on August 01, 2009, 04:39:54 PM
I am giving a tiny shot in the arm for the UK economy.     ;D 


The boxset has been cracked open finally........but all it is not perfect here for Curtis after 1st three operas

Rodrigo
Not sure if it is the work itself or the performance, but I was bored to tears with this, a cure for insomniacs, rate 3/10 only because the sound quality is very good

Radamisto
Discussed earlier in this thread as a seperate purchase great performance and sound, rate 9/10 I love it!
Hard to believe this was done by same conductor.......can't be that much better work than Rodrigo can it?

Admeto
Is also a miss but not quite as bad as Rodrigo, slow and devoid of life and dramtic impact, rate 5/10
I hope things pick up for 2nd half of this boxset  :-\


DarkAngel

#596
I see a possible reason why I am very dissappointed with 2 of 3 in this set:

Rodrigo 1997 & Admeto 1977 (yes that is right date!)
Radamisto 2003
Seems Curtis has really stepped up his baroque game from 1997-2003

Remaining operas:
Fernando 2005
Armino 2000
Deidamia 2002

Elgarian

Quote from: DarkAngel on August 07, 2009, 04:23:06 PM
I see a possible reason why I am very dissappointed with 2 of 3 in this set:

Rodrigo 1997 & Admeto 1977 (yes that is right date!)
Radamisto 2003
Seems Curtis has really stepped up his baroque game from 1997-2003

I must say, I hadn't looked at the dates of the recordings. That 1977 is remarkable! I listened to a large chunk of Deidamia recently, though not very attentively because I was doing something else at the time. It was entertaining enough, though I didn't experience any 'stop doing this and listen properly' moments.

Coopmv

Quote from: Elgarian on August 08, 2009, 12:15:34 AM
I must say, I hadn't looked at the dates of the recordings. That 1977 is remarkable! I listened to a large chunk of Deidamia recently, though not very attentively because I was doing something else at the time. It was entertaining enough, though I didn't experience any 'stop doing this and listen properly' moments.

I have Admeto on a 3 or 4-LP set, which I bought in the early to mid 80's.  I may have some other Handel's operas by Curtis on LP as well but I have to check.  At any rate, I have no complaints since I paid about $50 with shipping from the UK while most US e-tailers are selling this set for $75.

Coopmv

Quote from: Elgarian on August 08, 2009, 12:15:34 AM
I must say, I hadn't looked at the dates of the recordings. That 1977 is remarkable! I listened to a large chunk of Deidamia recently, though not very attentively because I was doing something else at the time. It was entertaining enough, though I didn't experience any 'stop doing this and listen properly' moments.

I may digitize my LP version of Admeto one of these days and do an A-B comparison with the same work in the CD-set, which will probably arrive from MDT next week.