Getting at Handel's operas and oratorios

Started by Tancata, July 10, 2007, 01:25:37 PM

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kishnevi

Quote from: nico1616 on January 25, 2013, 09:17:11 AM
Although I love the NewOlde website, John Wall can be extremely conservative in his preferences. He likes his Handel operas to be galant, even tame and always disapproves of dramatic excitement. If I read his negative reviews of some of the great Naïve Vivaldi recordings, I can only shake my head.
To prefer the boring McGegan Agrippina to Gardiner's funny and tasteful recording, does not sound logic at all.
Enjoy your Gardiner, with an almost perfect cast :)

I have neither, but I do have Rene Jacobs' recording of Aggripina.  Have you hear that, and if so,  how do you rate it?

BTW,  I find that McGegan's Ariodante delivers plenty of "real drama", as you call it;  more than the Curtis recording.  (Have not heard Minkowski's recording.)

nico1616

#801
Quote from: Jeffrey Smith on January 25, 2013, 01:12:55 PM
I have neither, but I do have Rene Jacobs' recording of Aggripina.  Have you hear that, and if so,  how do you rate it?

BTW,  I find that McGegan's Ariodante delivers plenty of "real drama", as you call it;  more than the Curtis recording.  (Have not heard Minkowski's recording.)

Let me first make another point on Minkowski's Ariodante: it is simply the best Handel recording I have ever heard. It is legendary, in the same class as the de Sabata Tosca or Solti's Ring. I read extreme postive reviews when it came out in 1998 (especially in the French press), and was blown over from the first time I listened to it: this was something that had never been done before: that kind of dramatic excitement, extreme tempos and especially the singing: the cast assembled is the best to have recorded a Baroque opera ever: Von Otter at her best, Lynne Dawson the purest of all Handel sopranos, Richard Croft a tenor with a voice like Simoneau, Eva Podles the villian who acts completely over the top but so exciting ...
I just can not listen to the McGegan or Curtis anymore, it is like eating a 5 euro Chinese meal after you have been to a top restaurant the day before :)
Just listen to the way these conductors enter the music in the ouverture: to McGegan or Curtis it is just another pleasant tune Handel wrote, while Minkowski immediately gets into the music form the first breath (you actually hear him breathe, it is a live recording).

As for Jacobs Agrippina, I can quote from my amazon.co.uk. review. I bought it with great expectations. I had seen a stage production in the Brussels Monnae opera in May 2000, directed by Robert Carsen with him in the pit. The opera was a revelation with a dream cast: Anna Catharina Antonacci was Agrippina, Rosemary Joshua sang Poppea and Lawrence Zazzo was a youthful Ottone. Very soon after this production, rumours were spread that Jacobs would record Agrippina. It took him 10 years to finally realize this recording and the only one to survive from the 2000 cast is Domique Visse in the small role of Narciso.
Alas, if only Antonacci had recorded the title role, she would have been perfect. But now, we get the shrill Pendatchanska. She gets some exciting moments, for example in the reorchestrated 'Tu Ben Degno' in Act 1, but if I listen to Della Jones, I hear the perfect incarnation of the role: cunning and funny. Her first recitative 'Nerone, amato figlio' just sets the tone. If you follow the libretto, it is bound to make you smile.

Jacobs cannot image Nerone to be sung by a countertenor, so he choose the mezzo Jennifer Rivera for that role. Nonetheless, the countertenor Derek Lee Ragin copes much better with the high lying tessitura of Nerone, Rivera struggles with the notes and is simply miscast. Another idea of Jacobs is that Claudio should be sung by a bass-baritone and not by a deep bass. The low D in his aria 'Cada il mondo' can hardly be sung by a bass-baritone, and that expresses the ridicule nature of the emperor. That may be true from a dramatical point of view, but on record I like to hear the low notes as written by the composer. Gardiner's Alastair Miles has all the notes and more than that: his interpretation can and will never be bettered. The same goes for Micheal Chance's Ottone, innocence impersonated. Again Jacobs chooses a singer, Bejun Mehta, whose voice is an acquired taste. To me, just another miscast.

I love both Poppeas equally, a great portrait of the vanity of women. Her entrance aria 'Vaghe perle' is in my opinion one of the best Handel composed.
The other roles are much smaller, although I must point out that Dominique Visse is much better than the bland countertenor Jonathan Peter Kenny in the Gardiner recording.
You certainly do not have to buy Jacobs for the better singing, but maybe there is another reason of interest: Jacobs uses another edition of the opera. There are numerous differences in the score, especially in the second half of the opera. Here, I can follow Jacobs' alterations. We get a lot of new arias, which should better reflect the intentions of the composer.

Ultimately, this recording is for Agrippina completists. If you want just one, Gardiner - though not ideal - is still the one to have.

The first half of life is spent in longing for the second, the second half in regretting the first.

Octave

I'd like to solicit some opinions about Petrou's GIULIO CESARE.

[asin]B0030CNQ4M[/asin]

A friend strongly recommended this to me, and I saw another recommendation of it recently.  I only know Minkowski's, and while I thought Jacobs' would be my next GC, my friend's opinion was overwhelmingly tilted towards the Petrou.  Just curious if there was some consensus. 
(I searched the forum but came up with nothing.)

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Coopmv

Quote from: Octave on February 08, 2013, 11:05:19 PM
I'd like to solicit some opinions about Petrou's GIULIO CESARE.

[asin]B0030CNQ4M[/asin]

A friend strongly recommended this to me, and I saw another recommendation of it recently.  I only know Minkowski's, and while I thought Jacobs' would be my next GC, my friend's opinion was overwhelmingly tilted towards the Petrou.  Just curious if there was some consensus. 
(I searched the forum but came up with nothing.)

I have 2 versions, one by Minkowski and the other by Karl Richter ...

The new erato

Quote from: Octave on February 08, 2013, 11:05:19 PM
I'd like to solicit some opinions about Petrou's GIULIO CESARE.

[asin]B0030CNQ4M[/asin]

A friend strongly recommended this to me, and I saw another recommendation of it recently.  I only know Minkowski's, and while I thought Jacobs' would be my next GC, my friend's opinion was overwhelmingly tilted towards the Petrou.  Just curious if there was some consensus. 
(I searched the forum but came up with nothing.)
You could visit newolde.com an check under Handel operas. He definitely prefers Petrou over Minkowsky (I have the Minkowski and used to be content with it, but haven't really listened to it for ages, it being one of the first Handel operas I aquired after McGegans Ariodante made me see the light).

Tsaraslondon

Just home from a superb performance of Radamisto (in the 1720 revision) at the Barbican. Harry Bickett conducted the English Concert and a superb cast of singers. David Daniels, dramtically engaged from the word go, and singing with his customary beauty and appreciation of the long legato line, fully justified the use of a countertenor in the Senesino role of Radamisto. The ladies all apologised for a cold, but there seemed little sign of trouble from any of them; Patricia Bardon, a moving Zenobia, Brenda Roe, excellent as the put upon Polisenna, and Elizabeth Watts as a sparkling Tigrane. The Italian bass-baritone, Luca Pisaroni was a terrific Tiridate, receiving a huge ovation for his spectacular 3rd Act aria.

What a shame the performance was not recorded.
\"A beautiful voice is not enough.\" Maria Callas

Octave

#806
Does anyone know and have an opinion about this recital disc:


Ewa Podles: ARIAS FROM RINALDO AND ORLANDO (w/Constantine Orbelian & Moscow Chamber Orch - Delos, 2001)

I heard her voice described (in the context of the Minkowski recording of ARIODANTE, iirc) as "paint-stripping", intended as a compliment.  This has me interested!  I am fine with raw, passionate intensity in Handel singing.  I don't see her discussed in my GMG searches, so if there are any desirable non-Handel recordings of hers, I'd enjoy knowing about them as well, off-topic though it be.  I think she's on Minkowski's Gluck's ARMIDE.

EDIT:  I now remember I have a disc of Chopin songs with her singing; part of Ohlsson's Chopin set/series for Hyperion.  I'm concerned I never listened to that disc, as I wasn't so interested in vocal music when I bought that box.   :-[  </confession>
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Coopmv

Quote from: Octave on March 23, 2013, 09:16:38 PM
Does anyone know and have an opinion about this recital disc:


Ewa Podles: ARIAS FROM RINALDO AND ORLANDO (w/Constantine Orbelian & Moscow Chamber Orch - Delos, 2001)

I heard her voice described (in the context of the Minkowski recording of ARIODANTE, iirc) as "paint-stripping", intended as a compliment.  This has me interested!  I am fine with raw, passionate intensity in Handel singing.  I don't see her discussed in my GMG searches, so if there are any desirable non-Handel recordings of hers, I'd enjoy knowing about them as well, off-topic though it be.  I think she's on Minkowski's Gluck's ARMIDE.

EDIT:  I now remember I have a disc of Chopin songs with her singing; part of Ohlsson's Chopin set/series for Hyperion.  I'm concerned I never listened to that disc, as I wasn't so interested in vocal music when I bought that box.   :-[  </confession>

Now this is getting interesting, a Russian ensemble doing Handel opera ...

Octave

#808
1.
Re: the Ewa Podles recording above:
Quote from: Coopmv on March 24, 2013, 10:05:06 AM
Now this is getting interesting, a Russian ensemble doing Handel opera ...

And recorded at Skywalker Sound!  It's a brave new world.  I'll try to say something semi-intelligible about it once I've actually listened to it.

2.
For those like me who have been interested in getting the Marcus Creed JEPHTHA, but have delayed and balked at the price (which last time I checked was maybe a bit high for new copies), it looks like Brilliant Classics will reissue that set soon.  I'm assuming there will be no libretto, unlike the OOP Berlin Classics edition, which can still be had via Amazon MP etc.

3.
RINALDO is one of the operas I've not heard, and while it would be nice to line up two recordings of it right off, that's just too much of an expense at once.  I've heard some many good things about Hogwood's (w/Bartoli and Daniels) and about Jacobs' (on HM), I think it might simply be a choice between them.  If anyone has a word to say about their preferences [for a first time through the opera], I appreciate any help.  Dark Angel enthused about the Jacobs some years back, so I'll reproduce his/her comments here for convenience:

Quote from: DarkAngel on July 05, 2009, 08:34:06 AM
The [Jacobs/HM] Rinaldo if anything is even more impressive, little for me to critique so I will extol its many virtues.
Rinaldo was the first Italian opera Handel composed after moving to London where he remained the rest of his life. As typical of baroque opera complex plot with sorcery, magic gardens, assumed idenities etc but basically details the trails and tribulations of the knight named Rinaldo who fought in the battle for Christians to take the city of Jerusalem.

Musically you will be delighted to hear Moorish themes in the music and several harpsicord solo cadenzas during the opera. Rinaldo is sung by Vivica Genaux (who is known for her castrati roles) and female character Almirena by Miah Persson who has made quite a splash with her recent Mozart work. Fortuantely the Italian style is still firmly in place and we have many exciting arias with ornamented sections freely used, the orchestra plays with great passion and drama with very rich recitativio sections. Sound quality from Harmonia Mundi could hardly be better and Jacobs keeps everything moving along with expert dramatic flair.

The wonderful packaging from Harmonia Mundi deserves special mention, you get thick hinged outer box with artwork (not just thin slip cover) Inside a very thick booklet and a beautiful 3 panel digipak to hold the 3 CDs with wonderful artwork, a first class package all the way!

Quote from: DarkAngel on July 05, 2009, 10:14:22 AM
If you want to hear what makes Jacobs/HM Rinaldo so special:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djJNBBLkumA

The brass fanfares are beautifully done and have wonderful 3D staging effect when listening on your home stereo.
Genaux does have a touch of vibrato/boxiness to her vocals, but that is part of what gives her the darker tonal pallate.
Listen to the vocal interplay between Vivica and the brass section, absolutely wonderful stuff that can make you a Handel opera fanatic.

Her ability to freely ornament the repeated aria sections (3:30-4:30 in sample) is why she is in high demand for baroque castrati roles, do not hesitate to get this [Jacobs/HM] Rinaldo if you have any interest in Handel's Italian operas..............
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Coopmv

Quote from: Octave on April 02, 2013, 04:17:15 AM
1.
Re: the Ewa Podles recording above:
And recorded at Skywalker Sound!  It's a brave new world.  I'll try to say something semi-intelligible about it once I've actually listened to it.

2.
For those like me who have been interested in getting the Marcus Creed JEPHTHA, but have delayed and balked at the price (which last time I checked was maybe a bit high for new copies), it looks like Brilliant Classics will reissue that set soon.  I'm assuming there will be no libretto, unlike the OOP Berlin Classics edition, which can still be had via Amazon MP etc.

3.
RINALDO is one of the operas I've not heard, and while it would be nice to line up two recordings of it right off, that's just too much of an expense at once.  I've heard some many good things about Hogwood's (w/Bartoli and Daniels) and about Jacobs' (on HM), I think it might simply be a choice between them.  If anyone has a word to say about their preferences [for a first time through the opera], I appreciate any help.  Dark Angel enthused about the Jacobs some years back, so I'll reproduce his/her comments here for convenience:

I have RINALDO by Hogwood and it is excellent IMO ...

Octave

#810
I'm interested in getting this HM 4cd collection, mainly for some more Lorraine Hunt Lieberson and for Andreas Scholl's OMBRA MAI FU arias disc (included in its entirety), which has been recommended to me several times.  (And I loved Scholl's participation in McCreesh's THEODORA.)

[asin]B001CCHPO4[/asin]
Handel: FAMOUS ARIAS
One disc each by: Lorraine Hunt w/McGegan; Andras Scholl w/Akademie für Alte Musik Berlin; Dorothea Röschmann w/AfAMB; Mark Padmore w/Manze.

Just curious if there are any opinions of any/all these recordings.  It seems that there might be some overlap (perhaps ~22 min?) between the Lorraine Hunt disc and her disc of arias as 'Durastanti', which was included in the other HM arias box Arias for Senesino, Montagnana, Cuzzoni, Durastanti (with a disc apiece by Lisa Saffer, Drew Minter, and David Thomas), which I got pretty cheap from BRO and really enjoyed very much.  This one:
[asin]B001CCHPNU[/asin]

I'm still pretty new to Handel, but if there are recordings of arias etc that put these in the shade, I must hear them!  (In fact I have heard very little in the way of aria showcase/recital type discs; I have Hunt-Lieberson's disc with Harry Bicket, the aforementioned Ewa Podles, and, a bit different, Carolyn Sampson's NEUN DEUTSCHE ARIEN disc, which on last hearing I had cooled on, I'm disappointed to say.  Oh, and James Bowman's HEROIC ARIAS disc on Hyperion/Helios...tremendous.  And an Emma Kirkby 3cd that, somehow, I have not yet listened to...insane.  That one really should go on the player tonight.)
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Brahmsian

Accidently exposed myself (and happily so) to an opera playing on CBC Radio Two yesterday afternoon.

I asked myself:  'Damn, what is this and which composer?'  At first I thought it might be a classical music era opera, with the harpsichord continuo.  Lo and behold, it was the 1st act of Handel's 'Giulio Cesare'.

I was extremely impressed by the music.  Wonderful!  :)

knight66

#812
That was live from the Met in NY, I was at a screening, excellent. That production is great fun and if you were interested it is available to buy. It is a Glyndbourne production with Sarah Connelly. I should think that bits of it are on Youtube. Here is my review of the DVDs

http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,2077.msg300552/topicseen.html#msg300552

Mike
DavidW: Yeah Mike doesn't get angry, he gets even.
I wasted time: and time wasted me.

Brahmsian

Quote from: knight66 on April 28, 2013, 10:51:06 AM
That was live from the Met in NY, I was at a screening, excellent. That production is great fun and if you were interested it is available to buy. It is a Glyndebourne production with Sarah Connelly. I should think that bits of it are on Youtube. Here is my review of the DVDs

http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,2077.msg300552/topicseen.html#msg300552

Mike

Thanks Mike!  :)

Rod Corkin

#814
Quote from: ChamberNut on April 28, 2013, 10:42:17 AM
Accidently exposed myself (and happily so) to an opera playing on CBC Radio Two yesterday afternoon.

I asked myself:  'Damn, what is this and which composer?'  At first I thought it might be a classical music era opera, with the harpsichord continuo.  Lo and behold, it was the 1st act of Handel's 'Giulio Cesare'.

I was extremely impressed by the music.  Wonderful!  :)

Sorry but I couldn't resist...
http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,5336.msg129817.html#msg129817

See how I've always been way ahead of the pack!  ;)

(PS the Wolves needn't bother, I won't be returning to this thread.)
"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin
https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/classicalmusicmayhem/

knight66

A bit discursive there, we were not comparing composers and I don't see the need to denigrate one in order to explain admiration for another. But we ran endlessly round those bushes a long time ago.

Mike

DavidW: Yeah Mike doesn't get angry, he gets even.
I wasted time: and time wasted me.

Brahmsian

Quote from: Rod Corkin on April 28, 2013, 11:14:26 AM
Sorry but I couldn't resist...
http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,5336.msg129817.html#msg129817

See how I've always been way ahead of the pack!  ;)

(PS the Wolves needn't bother, I won't be returning to this thread.)

Welcome back, Rod.  I see you are still in fine form!  :laugh:

knight66

As a separate matter, I see that i wrote the long Handel post prior to the issue of a CD only version of the Daniels, Hunt Lieberson Theodora. If you feel the production would not be to tour taste you can get it in sound only.

Mike
DavidW: Yeah Mike doesn't get angry, he gets even.
I wasted time: and time wasted me.

Geo Dude

If one were to name three Handel operas to start with (and recordings, preferably PI), which would you recommend?

Octave

#819
Quote from: Geo Dude on May 23, 2013, 05:04:03 AM
If one were to name three Handel operas to start with (and recordings, preferably PI), which would you recommend?



I am looking forward to the responses to your inquiry.  Terrified about the amount of money I'm going to have to part with.  I have listened to crazy amounts of the master in the past 18 months, but I still feel like I'm on Square One.  Still, let me say:

AGRIPPINA

You will receive differing opinions about the recording to get...there was some discussion a few pages or so back in this thread, in fact.  I have the Gardiner and have only sampled a couple others; but the Gardiner has already given me great pleasure.
I think I have spent more time thus far with oratorios, but that is whole 'nother kettle of fish.

With less confidence in the desert island dept., I can also say I have loved:
2. ALCINA by Hickox, Auger et al [avail. for $10 through Arkiv's EMI opera sale, fyi]...but also possibly superseded?
3. ARIODANTE by McGegan w/Lorraine Hunt Lieberson et al [some people much prefer Minkowski, cf. discussion several pages back]

And based on hearsay and mega-praise from disparate sources, I am probably going to prioritize the following as my next Handel vocal purchases:
1. SEMELE by Nelson/ECO/Battle/Horne, for the sex-kittenry
2. RINALDO by Hogwood [though I still need to sample the newer Jacobs]
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