Tchaikovsky's Symphony No. 5: reviews and thoughts

[Pat B]

I just finished the Monteux 1958/RCA, from Living Stereo box 2. I'm not an expert on this piece (yet ) but my first impression was excellent.

I only have a few BSO recordings. I know Symphony Hall has a great reputation for acoustics, but this was the first one where I specifically thought, "wow, this sounds great."

[mc ukrneal]

Next up: Mariss Jansons and the Oslo Philharmonic Orchestra. 1984.

Available in these editions:   


First movement: A slightly faster start. No lingering on this one. Clarinet has a nice, full tone. And then into the next section, they speed up a bit, but not as much contrast as some. Still, it sounds very good. Nice big sound. It does get to the climax a bit early, so while good, it loses some impact because of this. Tempo does change as expected, but the changes are natural for the most part. Phrasing of the dynamics is generally good, though there are some places where they are just too loud for too long, which reduces the impact of these types of details. Balance of the orchestra is good, though trumpets not as prominent as in some versions of the piece. Tempo generally stays on the faster side, so not a lush, romantic version (this movement at least). Ends a bit abruptly?

Second Movement: A faster pace to this one, but sounds great. Horn solo has a warm, sweet, sweet tone. The playing is perhaps a bit lacking in detail (particularly dynamics), but the sound is so good, I almost don't care (almost). There is some vibrato. Strings have a nice presence. The tendency to hit the climaxes too early is still in force. Brass are lacking in weight compared to some versions (trumpets seem to be a bit back in the sound stage). The quiet middle section is full of detail and energy (really well done). Second to last climax has tremendous energy (though tempo advances a bit too fast). Ending does not quite resolve the tension as much as others.

Third movement: Straight forward take, though definitely on the faster side. There are some unexpectedly aggressive entrances, but otherwise, it's ok. Tempo does not really change much at all with limited to no rubato.  They are really attacking this and I have not yet come across something similar (more forceful than usual).

Fourth Movement: Stately, though speedy start. However, strong attacks are continuing, as are good dynamics details (finally). It's definitely one of the faster (and relatively explosive) starts. And then we are into the allegro vivace (after a soft downbeat post-timpani roll, a bit of a letdown perhaps), and we are off at a fast clip. Tempo stays on the fast side, with good unison playing (though occasional lapses later on). While fast, this is very controlled. I think this is where a stronger brass presence might have helped in a few places (and they perhaps play too legato at times, though strangely when they cut off they can be too abrupt). Tempo is fairly inflexible (but fast) and continues pretty much unabated for some minutes. Even in the ending sections, the speed is still at a faster pace (and the differentiation is minimal across many of the sections in this respect). Ending sections stay pretty loud, so again a bit more detail or nuance would have been nice (it can be wearying). Into the final section we speed up a bit (rather than slowing) and the last four notes are in time.

Overall: Good. This is a very well done performance. I can see why a lot of people like it, but it has taken me a long time to appreciate it. I think the often repeating references to Mravinsky in comparison are ultimately misleading. He does not have the intensity of Mravinsky (though he's got the speed), nor does he have the sound that Mravinsky creates. People who want the speed without the excesses might like this one most. And it is worth mentioning the horn solo again (which sounds gorgeous even if I preferred the actual performance elsewhere).

Alternative reviews available on the net:
http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2009/May09/Chandos_Milestones_anni0030.htm
http://www.gramophone.co.uk/editorial/tchaikovskys-symphonies-selected

[jochanaan]

I've heard Tchaik 4 by Jansons over the radio--a bit rigid and undynamic for my taste, although the orchestra plays well enough...

[mc ukrneal]

I've heard Tchaik 4 by Jansons over the radio--a bit rigid and undynamic for my taste, although the orchestra plays well enough...

My guess is that you might feel similarly about the 5th.

[mc ukrneal]

Next up: Mariss Jansons and the Bavarian Radio Symphony Orchestra. 2009.

Available in these editions:   

Note: I do not have a SACD player, and so did not listen to the SACD version.
First movement: Broad start, with quite focused sound. Clarinet sounds good, though very little to no reverb (which perhaps reduces the warmness of the instrument). And then we are off at a moderate pace in the next section (a bit slower than his Oslo performance). Tempo does not abruptly flip around as much as some change it, though it speeds up and slows down as it goes along. He's a hummer here too I think (or someone is). This performance does not really change much compared to the Oslo. Again, it is not aiming for lushness or romanticism, and could even be characterized as cold. I don't find it to be a particularly warm performance as some do, but it does create excitement around the climaxes. Details are pretty good too, though perhaps too loud in some stretches, thus reducing the effectiveness (and not enough detail in the dynamics as a whole). The slower sections sometimes seem to lose energy and propulsion (like at 12:12 where the strings seem to suddenly get stuck in glue or something). Trumpets are sometimes a bit back in the overall soundstage (a problem I noticed much more on the second listen).

Second Movement: Dark beginning, but on the faster side. I dislike how the instruments enter on each note and create almost a wave effect (as if they enter in stages). Horn has a pleasant sound, quite warm. But the soloist doesn't really do much with it (not much detail or nuance), and it sounds like the same level of loudness throughout (with little variance). No vibrato. Tempos do not change too abruptly, or speed up or slow down too much. As in the previous movement, one sometimes feels the momentum stalls. The phrasing is sometimes heavily legato, which gives the impression of notes being held too long or phrases running into each other too much, which is why I think I am not falling for this approach entirely. I think sometimes the phrasing doesn't differentiate the dynamics well enough either (or add enough detail), which adds to the feeling of it being static.

Third movement: Ever so slightly slower pace gives this a better atmosphere. But the dynamics are again a bit static. Again, tempo is more consistent than most with limited to no rubato. But overall it's ok.

Fourth Movement: Stately, though somewhat faster start. Into the allegro vivace (after a downbeat from the timpani roll), we are off at a moderate to fast pace (though not as fast as with the Oslo forces). This section actually seems a bit improved. The faster tempo seems to be giving the orchestra a bit of life that is sometimes lacked. The brass is inconsistent though – sometimes they are big, round, and full, while at other times they aren't bold enough and seem to fade too far into the background (kind of frustrating). There is a shift forward in tempo at about 6:45, which is followed by a slow down soon after. Balance in the ending sections is really off, where the brass should be much more prominent. The presto is not as speedy as some, but ok. And we speed up for the last section with the last four notes in time.

Overall: So so. It's not really a bad version, but it never really got me excited either. I much preferred his Oslo performance on Chandos. It took me a good bit of the performance to figure out what I dislike about it, and I think it comes down to three main things: 1) Phrasing does not push it forward and is too linear, 2) Too loud sometimes or unchanging in dynamics (whatever level it is at), 3) The balance of the orchestra is off (particularly the brass).

Alternative reviews available on the net:
http://www.classicstoday.com/review/review-15933/?search=1
http://audaud.com/2010/11/tchaikovsky-symphony-no-5-in-e-op-64-francesca-da-rimini-op-32-%e2%80%93-bavarian-radio-symphony-orchestra-mariss-jansons-conductor-%e2%80%93-br-klassik/
http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=519580
http://www.classical-music.com/review/tchaikovsky-symphony-no-5-0
http://www.allmusic.com/album/tchaikovsky-symphony-no-5-francesca-da-rimini-mw0002044443
http://www.sa-cd.net/showtitle/6738
http://www.classical-cd-reviews.com/search/label/Tchaikovsky

[BitPerfectRichard]

Just found this interesting thread (Jan 2016).  But it seems to have stopped somewhat abruptly.  Is it defunct?

[Daverz]

Just found this interesting thread (Jan 2016).  But it seems to have stopped somewhat abruptly.  Is it defunct?

I think mc ukrneal was driving most of the thread with his reviews.  He probably moved on to other things, so anyone can pick up the baton.

[mc ukrneal]

I had a technical problem with my portable drive. I didn't lose much, but I did lose most of my Tchaikovsky 5 mp3 files as well as a few supporting files (one of the few things I had not backed up). I have also moved several times in the interval, so re-ripping them has been an issue. One of these days, I hope to resume, but I don't want to do it as long as I have so many files awol.

[Cato]

Just found this interesting thread (Jan 2016).  But it seems to have stopped somewhat abruptly.  Is it defunct?

I think mc ukrneal was driving most of the thread with his reviews.  He probably moved on to other things, so anyone can pick up the baton.

Resurrection may be at hand!   0:)

Richard:  try this!

https://www.youtube.com/v/EVWLduobOJA

[Daverz]

Resurrection may be at hand!   0:)

Richard:  try this!

https://www.youtube.com/v/EVWLduobOJA

I have this on a Great Conductors of the 20th Century set.  Toward the end of the electrical era, the engineers really got the hang of making fine recordings.

[asin]B00005V33K[/asin]

[BitPerfectRichard]

I have this on a Great Conductors of the 20th Century set.  Toward the end of the electrical era, the engineers really got the hang of making fine recordings.

[asin]B00005V33K[/asin]

Interesting.  I'll look out for it.

I originally bumped into this thread (and this site) because I was contemplating the wonderful horn solo that kicks off the Andante Cantabile.  I wondered whether Dennis Brain had ever recorded this.  I have about a dozen or so versions in all, and had played through them all to see how the horn solos would stack up when (if) I ever tracked down a Brain performance.

This horn solo needs to be played standing on the edge of a cliff with your toes overhanging the precipice.  When the French horn is played at its most expressive, it is on the edge of breaking up, so if the player wants the assurance of remaining in control he needs to hold back somewhat.  Unfortunately, such conservatism is what I am used to hearing, but it's not what I'm looking for.  Years (decades, actually) ago I watched a masterclass on this very subject, using this piece, and it made a profound impression on me.  Brain lived life on the edge, and died young in a fast car.  It struck me he would have been the perfect player for it.

It turns out that he did.  He featured in both Karajan's 1952 recording and Silvestri's 1957 recording, both with the Philharmonia.  And guess what - I already had the Karajan and didn't know that Brain was on it!  As it happened, the Karajan was right up there in my unofficial rankings, right next to Chailly & the Vienna Phil.  The tone is wonderfully dark and expressive - and Karajan gets the weight of the string intro (I call it 'the carpet') just right - but even so, what strikes you most is the tonality rather than the expressiveness, and I just wonder whether or not Karajan demanded it that way.

I haven't heard the Silvestri, and don't know anything about him to speak of, but I know someone who has it.  It would be interesting to compare it.

[BitPerfectRichard]

I had a technical problem with my portable drive. I didn't lose much, but I did lose most of my Tchaikovsky 5 mp3 files as well as a few supporting files (one of the few things I had not backed up). I have also moved several times in the interval, so re-ripping them has been an issue. One of these days, I hope to resume, but I don't want to do it as long as I have so many files awol.

I feel for you.  I have over 3TB of music files, and I have backups of my backups of my backups.  I live in terror of data loss.  But the most expensive HDs you can buy cost a small fraction of what you invest in both time and money in your music collection.

[Brahmsian]

Interesting.  I'll look out for it.

I originally bumped into this thread (and this site) because I was contemplating the wonderful horn solo that kicks off the Andante Cantabile. I wondered whether Dennis Brain had ever recorded this.  I have about a dozen or so versions in all, and had played through them all to see how the horn solos would stack up when (if) I ever tracked down a Brain performance.

Hello Richard in Montreal.  As great as the horn solo is, my favourite part of the Andante Cantabile is the intro prior to the horn solo.  One of my favourite passages in all music. 

[Daverz]

I haven't heard the Silvestri, and don't know anything about him to speak of, but I know someone who has it.  It would be interesting to compare it.

I don't think you would regret getting this Silvestri box:

[asin]B00ACHXHII[/asin]
So many wonderful recordings in there.

[SymphonicAddict]

I have listened to several recordings of this majestic creation (I think is my favorite symphony by Tchaikovsky). The recording that has no opponents, the best, the supreme, IMHO, is of Karajan with BP of the EMI label (1971). It's just PERFECT, AMAZING, POWERFUL, GORGEOUS... the tempi are accurate, the instruments sound terrific (especially the brass and timpani), with all the disproportionate passion of this Russian genius. One of the best recordings of all time.

[flyingdutchman]

There have been quite a few releases of the 5th that bear listening. One I can think of is Honeck's new 5th with the Pittsburg and on Reference Recordings. Also, get Qobuz or Tidal to listen to a lot of different recordings.