Author Topic: Chopin's mazurkas  (Read 66723 times)

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Online Mandryka

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Re: Chopin's mazurkas
« Reply #200 on: April 28, 2022, 10:06:03 PM »

I won’t be able to find these recordings.  ;D  I will look for his other recordings. The Zimerman is a high-class, delicate and nuanced performance. There is a classy cuteness as well. It is like a fine meal at a 4-5 star French restaurant. It is great, but you may occasionally miss a greasy, salty food at a popular pizzeria in your town. Anyway, it is a great recording.

I think the valses in the recording of Milosz Magin are worth listening to. There is something attractive. His mazurkas are fine as well.

Fiorentino I is all salty food. I can let you have transfers of these things, as you know.
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Offline Florestan

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Re: Chopin's mazurkas
« Reply #201 on: April 30, 2022, 02:21:57 AM »
Speaking of waltzes, cross-post from the WAYL2N thread:



This is a crackerjack. The brillante waltzes are brilliantly executed, the more introspective ones have just the right amount of bittersweet melancholy. In both cases, the voices of both hands are markedly delineated, making for a delicious, truly waltzing counterpoint. The splendid, voluptuous, almost achingly beautiful tone of a Bösendorfer (not specified as such in the booklet but clearly distinguishable in the photos) is captured in SOTA sound. An oustanding performance, highly recommended.

Check it out, guys --- or PM me for the FLACs and booklet.

FWIW, Aimo Pagin is the son of Silvia Marcovici.
You are the music while the music lasts. - T. S. Eliot

Offline Dry Brett Kavanaugh

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Re: Chopin's mazurkas
« Reply #202 on: April 30, 2022, 05:40:51 AM »
Speaking of waltzes, cross-post from the WAYL2N thread:

This is a crackerjack. The brillante waltzes are brilliantly executed, the more introspective ones have just the right amount of bittersweet melancholy. In both cases, the voices of both hands are markedly delineated, making for a delicious, truly waltzing counterpoint. The splendid, voluptuous, almost achingly beautiful tone of a Bösendorfer (not specified as such in the booklet but clearly distinguishable in the photos) is captured in SOTA sound. An oustanding performance, highly recommended.

Check it out, guys --- or PM me for the FLACs and booklet.

FWIW, Aimo Pagin is the son of Silvia Marcovici.

Great! I will check the album!



The Hatto Chopin Walzes - that’s Arthur Moreira-Lima - is especially wonderful IMO.

Again, I think this is a very fine album.

Online Mandryka

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Re: Chopin's mazurkas
« Reply #203 on: May 01, 2022, 08:46:53 AM »
I've been interested in hearing the mazurkas that Szymon Nehring has recorded (there are two Chopin Institute CDs) because he has one of my favorite performances of op. 25/12, played so tenderly that it sounds more like Rachmaninoff than a standard fare Chopin etude. This performance might be on one of those discs if they're taken from the Chopin competition he was in.

There are a handful of mazurkas recorded, and he does play very tenderly. The op 25/12 is tender too, as you say.
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Online Mandryka

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Re: Chopin's mazurkas
« Reply #204 on: May 01, 2022, 08:48:24 AM »
Speaking of waltzes, cross-post from the WAYL2N thread:



This is a crackerjack. The brillante waltzes are brilliantly executed, the more introspective ones have just the right amount of bittersweet melancholy. In both cases, the voices of both hands are markedly delineated, making for a delicious, truly waltzing counterpoint. The splendid, voluptuous, almost achingly beautiful tone of a Bösendorfer (not specified as such in the booklet but clearly distinguishable in the photos) is captured in SOTA sound. An oustanding performance, highly recommended.

Check it out, guys --- or PM me for the FLACs and booklet.

FWIW, Aimo Pagin is the son of Silvia Marcovici.

I’ll listen to this one soon, at the moment my attention is rather grabbed by Stephen Hough’s Waltzes.
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Offline Dry Brett Kavanaugh

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Re: Chopin's mazurkas
« Reply #205 on: May 08, 2022, 04:47:14 AM »
Have you ever heard Russell Sherman play the Mazurkas? I think you would find it very unique. Listened to half of disc 1 (Op. 30, 33, 41) in with some of Feldman's first SQ and it was  a nice accidental pairing. Sherman plays the Mazurkas like Nocturnes, he downplays dynamic markings. Of course many other more madening things about them, but I can say I won't mind them in small doses.

Yes, the Sherman recording is a unique and interesting performance. Accent (and occasional accelerations) are placed on the downbeat (first beat)? This makes some interpretations sound like jazz solo piano a little. Overall, likable and unique recording. Only minor problem for me is that sometimes he plays extended trills and they are not for me.


Still listening to the Magin Waltzes and like them a lot.


 
« Last Edit: May 08, 2022, 04:49:22 AM by Dry Brett Kavanaugh »

Offline hvbias

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Re: Chopin's mazurkas
« Reply #206 on: May 11, 2022, 04:41:16 PM »
Yes, the Sherman recording is a unique and interesting performance. Accent (and occasional accelerations) are placed on the downbeat (first beat)? This makes some interpretations sound like jazz solo piano a little. Overall, likable and unique recording. Only minor problem for me is that sometimes he plays extended trills and they are not for me.


Still listening to the Magin Waltzes and like them a lot.


 

Like jazz is a very good description. I should revisit these again, it is the cycle that I can only listen to in short bursts, not that I’d regularly be playing two full CDs of mazurkas. If I ever have the chance to see him again live this would be the recording that I would want to talk to him about.

BTW you should hear Szymanowski’s mazurkas if you haven’t heard them yet, in many ways I like them more than Chopin’s as they have some dissonance and modern leanings. I hear Chopin, Scriabin, and Sorabji in them, even hints of Schoenberg.

Since I haven’t posted my favorites to this thread, in general my favorite sets come from pianists that never recorded a full cycle.

Raoul von Koczalski - these are jubilant, light hearted, and with the innocence of a child. op. 33 no 4 for example (https://youtu.be/hVkw4iSwaeI), this would be ~ 5 minutes give or take for a mainstream interpretation. Koczalski forgoes any morose qualities about it. Koczalski is the one I picture in my head that I can routinely see orchestrated with Polish dancers dancing to in traditional attire! There are loads of great performances from the pre-war era.

Remainder of my favorites - Fou Ts’ong Westminster, followed by the CBS/Sony to have a full set, and then Maryla Jonas. There have been some great performances in the last few Chopin competitions as well, the great ones play them with such ease and naturalness.

There are a handful of mazurkas recorded, and he does play very tenderly. The op 25/12 is tender too, as you say.

Thanks, looking forward to hearing them.

Since the waltzes were brought up, I'd always been under the impression these were of more interest to pianists than general listeners. I used to know a girl that would play them in our student common area, she played them like Lipatti with constant speeding up slowing down; not a complaint about Lipatti as he and Alice Sara Ott are the only two cycles that have really captured my attention.

edit: on the mazurkas, Koroliov is another that if I am remembering right was a bit off the beaten path. I think his interpretations were along the lines of Michelangeli in forgoing the rhythmic aspects of the music and focusing more on the color.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2022, 05:28:02 PM by hvbias »
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Offline Dry Brett Kavanaugh

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Re: Chopin's mazurkas
« Reply #207 on: May 11, 2022, 07:03:31 PM »
^ Yes, I like Szymanowski Mazurkas! As for the Alice Sara Ott album, first time I listened to it I thought that her performance was so powerless and lacking liveliness and color. But later, I recognized her own unique, subtle nuances/beauty. Her music is like a water paint art while others are oil paintings. Funny I am not fond of her other albums.

The Koczalski sounds very Polish!
« Last Edit: May 11, 2022, 08:27:48 PM by Dry Brett Kavanaugh »

Offline hvbias

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Re: Chopin's mazurkas
« Reply #208 on: May 12, 2022, 04:17:51 PM »
^ Yes, I like Szymanowski Mazurkas! As for the Alice Sara Ott album, first time I listened to it I thought that her performance was so powerless and lacking liveliness and color. But later, I recognized her own unique, subtle nuances/beauty. Her music is like a water paint art while others are oil paintings. Funny I am not fond of her other albums.

The Koczalski sounds very Polish!

I completely agree with you on your description of Alice Sara Ott in the waltzes. They are very subtle, I listened to the Hyperion sample of Stephen Hough on Youtube and I would say she is the 180 degree opposite of him.

Her album Nightfall is actually my favorite album from her (I think I've heard everything from her and this and the waltzes are the only two I like), I love the concept and I think she executes it brilliantly. The beautiful coloring, slightly slower tempi, subtle rubato, and the pieces she selected. Strangely I don't think I would have Gaspard among my favorite interpretations but when taken with the other pieces works very well. It was in my heavy listening for late night, lights off, but just the glow of the OTL amps.
"I feel very strongly about Chopin — I just love him" - Fou Ts'ong

Offline Dry Brett Kavanaugh

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Re: Chopin's mazurkas
« Reply #209 on: May 12, 2022, 06:26:00 PM »
I will re-listen Nightfall. Yes, I think Ott’s strength is her rhythm and her artful decision/diversification of tempi. Personally, a great majority of Mazurkas and Waltz recordings sound too loud for me and I like Sex Pistols and Deep Purple. The Maryla Jonas is jazzy and cool.

Online Mandryka

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Re: Chopin's mazurkas
« Reply #210 on: May 12, 2022, 10:33:16 PM »
I will re-listen Nightfall. Yes, I think Ott’s strength is her rhythm and her artful decision/diversification of tempi. Personally, a great majority of Mazurkas and Waltz recordings sound too loud for me and I like Sex Pistols and Deep Purple. The Maryla Jonas is jazzy and cool.

I think you may like Claudio Arrau’s waltzes.
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Offline Dry Brett Kavanaugh

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Re: Chopin's mazurkas
« Reply #211 on: May 13, 2022, 05:59:53 AM »
I think you may like Claudio Arrau’s waltzes.

Likable performance, but it is not one of my favorites. I don’t know why. So far my favorite waltzes are Magin, Ott, Cziffra (a liitle loud), Moreira-Lima (Joyce Hatto), Florentino and Zimerman. Plus Entremont and Katsaris partially.

Just in case, the below is a link for Zimerman’s Waltzes in live in Japan. I think it is vg. Again, the performance is high class and aristocratic side.

https://youtu.be/bKmkYRAlhZI

Online Mandryka

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Re: Chopin's mazurkas
« Reply #212 on: May 13, 2022, 06:24:33 AM »
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Offline Florestan

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Re: Chopin's mazurkas
« Reply #213 on: May 13, 2022, 06:31:40 AM »
my favorite waltzes are Magin

Speaking of which, I have his complete Chopin series on Decca (10 discs, FLAC and booklet). If anyone is interested either in the whole stuff or specific works, just PM me, folks.
You are the music while the music lasts. - T. S. Eliot

Offline Dry Brett Kavanaugh

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Re: Chopin's mazurkas
« Reply #214 on: May 13, 2022, 06:34:12 AM »
Unbearable!

 ;D ;D ;D

Why? Nice tempi and some good ideas without annoying show-off. Tone may be slightly hard, but I am sure some/many people like it.

Offline Dry Brett Kavanaugh

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Re: Chopin's mazurkas
« Reply #215 on: May 13, 2022, 06:35:52 AM »
Speaking of which, I have his complete Chopin series on Decca (10 discs, FLAC and booklet). If anyone is interested either in the whole stuff or specific works, just PM me, folks.

Have a nice weekend, Andrei!  :)

Online Mandryka

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Re: Chopin's mazurkas
« Reply #216 on: May 13, 2022, 06:36:05 AM »
;D ;D ;D

Why? Nice tempi and some good ideas without annoying show-off. Tone may be slightly hard, but I am sure some/many people like it.

It's because he does the same thing in each waltz -- he brings out an inner voice in a repeat. I remember feeling it becomes very predictable.
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Offline Florestan

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Re: Chopin's mazurkas
« Reply #217 on: May 13, 2022, 06:38:32 AM »


I listened to that on Spotify recently and enjoyed it a lot. Haebler was first and foremost a Mozart specialist, and this can only be beneficial when it comes to playing Chopin.
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Offline Dry Brett Kavanaugh

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Re: Chopin's mazurkas
« Reply #218 on: May 13, 2022, 06:41:35 AM »
It's because he does the same thing in each waltz -- he brings out an inner voice in a repeat. I remember feeling it becomes very predictable.

Ok. I need some time to find it out. Thank you.

Offline hvbias

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Re: Chopin's mazurkas
« Reply #219 on: May 13, 2022, 06:55:40 AM »
I will re-listen Nightfall. Yes, I think Ott’s strength is her rhythm and her artful decision/diversification of tempi. Personally, a great majority of Mazurkas and Waltz recordings sound too loud for me and I like Sex Pistols and Deep Purple. The Maryla Jonas is jazzy and cool.

Understood. For me the mazurkas should be tumultuous in that pre-war style of pianists with close pedigree to Liszt and Chopin students. That's why I was so enamored by Ts'ong who is one of the very few that continues that tradition except in more palatable sound quality.

It was in my heavy listening for late night, lights off, but just the glow of the OTL amps.

This is why I also love Chopin's nocturnes, and they are my favorite of his bodies of work. The really great performances have that feeling in the air when you can listen to this music when it's dead quiet at night.
"I feel very strongly about Chopin — I just love him" - Fou Ts'ong