Chopin's mazurkas

Started by jwinter, August 02, 2012, 12:07:21 PM

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Mandryka

Quote from: hvbias on May 11, 2022, 05:41:16 PM
Alice Sara Ott

Quote from: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on May 11, 2022, 08:03:31 PM
^ Yes, I like Szymanowski Mazurkas! As for the Alice Sara Ott album, first time I listened to it I thought that her performance was so powerless and lacking liveliness and color. But later, I recognized her own unique, subtle nuances/beauty. Her music is like a water paint art while others are oil paintings. Funny I am not fond of her other albums.


Yes, very good, like Ott, thanks for mentioning.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Dry Brett Kavanaugh

Quote from: Mandryka on May 22, 2022, 10:40:09 AM
Yes, very good, like Ott, thanks for mentioning.

I thought that somehow the performances by Ott and Zimerman are on cool, aristocratic side while other players are in hot/romantic school.

Mandryka

Quote from: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on May 22, 2022, 11:22:16 AM
I thought that somehow the performances by Ott and Zimerman are on cool, aristocratic side while other players are in hot/romantic school.

Would you call Koroliov's mazurkas cool and aristo? That may work for me.  For some reason, when I listened to Ott's Waltzes I thought of Koroliov's mazurkas, that's why I mention it.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Dry Brett Kavanaugh

Quote from: Mandryka on May 22, 2022, 12:05:12 PM
Would you call Koroliov's mazurkas cool and aristo? That may work for me.  For some reason, when I listened to Ott's Waltzes I thought of Koroliov's mazurkas, that's why I mention it.

Yes, I would. The term "cool" may be misleading, my apology. I meant to suggest a dignified, non-flashy, no-loud, subtle elegance.

staxomega

The waltzes might be worth hearing from Brailowsky. Being so taken by the two Ts'ong boxes has had me in a real Chopin mood exploring recordings and reissues I haven't heard. In general I didn't think Brailowsky was all that great, but the waltzes seem to be an exception.


Florestan

Quote from: hvbias on May 27, 2022, 09:32:57 AM
The waltzes might be worth hearing from Brailowsky. Being so taken by the two Ts'ong boxes has had me in a real Chopin mood exploring recordings and reissues I haven't heard. In general I didn't think Brailowsky was all that great, but the waltzes seem to be an exception.



I listened to Brailowsky very recently in this incarnation:



I enjoyed them a lot. And the sonata is not half bad either.
Every kind of music is good, except the boring kind. — Rossini

staxomega

#226
Quote from: Florestan on May 27, 2022, 09:55:59 AM
I listened to Brailowsky very recently in this incarnation:



I enjoyed them a lot. And the sonata is not half bad either.

Thanks, just ordered it after giving the waltzes another playthrough. I think I'd characterize them as small scale, not much extremes in any expressive technique, but not as subtle as Alice Sara Ott either. Smiling performances :)

Who do you chaps like in the Preludes? My favorites below, and no Howard Shelley vs Leslie Howard cockups here I promise  :laugh: All of these compiled through notes and relistening in cases where I only had stuff written down on paper which predated GDocs.

Moravec (VAI) - very... Moravec, tumultuous, deep powerful playing
Andrea Lucchesini - dark, like imagine his Adagio of the Hammerklavier now in the Preludes
Sokolov (Naive) - serious, bordering on gravely serious
Argerich - what you'd expect from Argerich, forward moving
Russell Sherman - fluid, among the less weird Sherman recordings. You can hear him talk about the Preludes a bit on a Youtube interview with David Dubal
Rafael Orozco - huge thanks to Holden for mentioning these Preludes. He is just a phenomenal pianist (Rachmaninoff Piano Concerti, Rhapsody on a Theme of Paganini, Brahms op. 5 sonata)

Ts'ong - still evaluating

Dry Brett Kavanaugh

I only have Sofronitsky and Rafal Blechacz. I will check the Orozco.

George

I'm very happy and content with my two mono Rubinstein sets, my Wasowski and my Luisada (DG) sets.
"I can't live without music, because music is life." - Yvonne Lefébure

Todd

A few years back I went on a mini-Mazurka bender.  Among complete sets I've heard, I prefer playing with an individual, or really interventionist, sound.  Vassily Primakov, Pietro De Maria, Arthur Rubinstein's first set, Yakov Flier, and Luisada's RCA set all stand out for me, with the unabashedly self-indulgent Primakov probably my favorite.  He seems to be one of those pianists who plays music a certain way just because he can.  As such, I'd love to see him take up recording again.

Among incomplete but still substantial blobs of Mazurkas, the inimitable Michel Block (on Pro Piano), William Kapell, and the micro-managed to the Nth degree Klara Min all stand out.  For small but substantive blobs, Halina Czerny-Stefańska and Ivan Moravec stand out.

Now that I stream more and more, I may have to dive even deeper to find the one or two or three new sets that hit the spot.  No other Chopin works seem to withstand such variety of interpretation.
The universe is change; life is opinion. - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

People would rather believe than know - E.O. Wilson

Propaganda death ensemble - Tom Araya

staxomega

#230
Quote from: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on May 28, 2022, 07:05:21 AM
I only have Sofronitsky and Rafal Blechacz. I will check the Orozco.

Ah Sofronitsky   I completely forgot to include him in my survey of the Preludes, I seem to recall they were excellent, deeply passionate interpretations. He is my resounding favorite for the Scriabin Mazurkas by a wide margin. I am super thankful for the Japanese for releasing about a dozen of his Melodiya discs without NR.

Mandryka

#231
Quote from: hvbias on May 27, 2022, 04:29:44 PM
Thanks, just ordered it after giving the waltzes another playthrough. I think I'd characterize them as small scale, not much extremes in any expressive technique, but not as subtle as Alice Sara Ott either. Smiling performances :)

Who do you chaps like in the Preludes? My favorites below, and no Howard Shelley vs Leslie Howard cockups here I promise  :laugh: All of these compiled through notes and relistening in cases where I only had stuff written down on paper which predated GDocs.

Moravec (VAI) - very... Moravec, tumultuous, deep powerful playing
Andrea Lucchesini - dark, like imagine his Adagio of the Hammerklavier now in the Preludes
Sokolov (Naive) - serious, bordering on gravely serious
Argerich - what you'd expect from Argerich, forward moving
Russell Sherman - fluid, among the less weird Sherman recordings. You can hear him talk about the Preludes a bit on a Youtube interview with David Dubal
Rafael Orozco - huge thanks to Holden for mentioning these Preludes. He is just a phenomenal pianist (Rachmaninoff Piano Concerti, Rhapsody on a Theme of Paganini, Brahms op. 5 sonata)

Ts'ong - still evaluating

You should listen to Cortot (the 1955 Munich recital has good sound -- best performance is earlier probably), Demidenko, Arrau live in Prague, Perahia, Wojciec Switala, Pletnev in Dubai last week, Shura Cherkassky, Pogorelich, Vladimir Tropp, Emil Gilels possibly, Deszo Ranki's second recording (be careful, not the first), Pollini in 1975 (I can let you have it), Friedrich Gulda, Sofro in Tokyo maybe, Moiseiewitsch maybe (however it's spelt.) I haven't kept up with recent performances, but that should keep you busy for a while.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Dry Brett Kavanaugh

Quote from: Mandryka on May 28, 2022, 09:06:40 AM
You should listen to Cortot (the 1955 Munich recital has good sound -- best performance is earlier probably), Demidenko, Arrau live in Prague, Perahia, Wojciec Switala, Pletnev in Dubai last week, Shura Cherkassky, Pogorelich, Vladimir Tropp, Emil Gilels possibly, Deszo Ranki's second recording (be careful, not the first), Pollini in 1975 (I can let you have it), Friedrich Gulda, Sofro in Tokyo maybe, Moiseiewitsch maybe (however it's spelt.) I haven't kept up with recent performances, but that should keep you busy for a while.

I only see this 1982 recording. This is it?





Dry Brett Kavanaugh

Quote from: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on May 13, 2022, 06:59:53 AMPlus Entremont and Katsaris partially.


As for the Waltzes, I still think the Entremont and Katsaris are fine/decent in terms of performance. Their tones are just too bright and hard for my personal taste.

Mandryka

#234
Quote from: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on May 28, 2022, 09:46:11 AM
I only see this 1982 recording. This is it?



No, this

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=l0jLZLcRrjE

(I can let you have the files of the concert if you want. Good sound.)
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Mandryka

Quote from: hvbias on May 27, 2022, 04:29:44 PM
Thanks, just ordered it after giving the waltzes another playthrough. I think I'd characterize them as small scale, not much extremes in any expressive technique, but not as subtle as Alice Sara Ott either. Smiling performances :)

Who do you chaps like in the Preludes? My favorites below, and no Howard Shelley vs Leslie Howard cockups here I promise  :laugh: All of these compiled through notes and relistening in cases where I only had stuff written down on paper which predated GDocs.

Moravec (VAI) - very... Moravec, tumultuous, deep powerful playing
Andrea Lucchesini - dark, like imagine his Adagio of the Hammerklavier now in the Preludes
Sokolov (Naive) - serious, bordering on gravely serious
Argerich - what you'd expect from Argerich, forward moving
Russell Sherman - fluid, among the less weird Sherman recordings. You can hear him talk about the Preludes a bit on a Youtube interview with David Dubal
Rafael Orozco - huge thanks to Holden for mentioning these Preludes. He is just a phenomenal pianist (Rachmaninoff Piano Concerti, Rhapsody on a Theme of Paganini, Brahms op. 5 sonata)

Ts'ong - still evaluating

Have you heard Moravec's first recording of the preludes, the one for the Connoisseur Society? If you haven't I can let you have it: I'd be curious to know how you see his two interpretations.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

staxomega

#236
Quote from: Mandryka on May 28, 2022, 09:06:40 AM
You should listen to Cortot (the 1955 Munich recital has good sound -- best performance is earlier probably), Demidenko, Arrau live in Prague, Perahia, Wojciec Switala, Pletnev in Dubai last week, Shura Cherkassky, Pogorelich, Vladimir Tropp, Emil Gilels possibly, Deszo Ranki's second recording (be careful, not the first), Pollini in 1975 (I can let you have it), Friedrich Gulda, Sofro in Tokyo maybe, Moiseiewitsch maybe (however it's spelt.) I haven't kept up with recent performances, but that should keep you busy for a while.

I've heard some of them, the more mainstream studio ones in your list, in my post I wanted to just focus on the ones I liked most to keep the post succinct. I did not listen to Moiseiwitsch and other pre-war sets that are incomplete since there are too many complete sets. I'm going to take a break from my survey of the preludes for now, my main interest in this was wanting to gather up my favorites by compiling my paper era writing with my digital notes.

Ts'ong update since I had him on pending - I listened to this a couple of times after the Sony box came out and didn't find them particularly noteworthy so I set them aside until revisiting them this weekend. He has a gorgeous rich (but not burnished ala Moravec on VAI) tone. The interpretations are fluid like Sherman. Maybe it's unfair to include Sherman in my favorites and leave Ts'ong off of it, but I have known the Sherman for a lot longer. Both are the opposite style of Lucchesini/Sokolov/Moravec, there is less darkness in either of them. I wish Ts'ong brought some of that swagger and panache from the rest of this Chopin recordings to the preludes (mazurkas notes below which I am in complete agreement with). For instance in the F sharp minor prelude he could have played it like he plays some Chopin pieces where it sounds like things are just on the cusp of falling apart.





One other note as this is the first time I'm reading the Sony booklet, Jed Distler calls the preludes "improvisatory," but this is never how I've envisioned the preludes. For me this is what the mazurkas sound like, and why they'd be my first choice of Chopin to play for enjoyment if I were at the level of being capable of playing them. But as a listener I get more pleasure from the preludes and nocturnes.

Quote from: Mandryka on May 29, 2022, 12:36:54 PM
Have you heard Moravec's first recording of the preludes, the one for the Connoisseur Society? If you haven't I can let you have it: I'd be curious to know how you see his two interpretations.

I am pretty sure the VAI I referenced are the Connoisseur Society recordings licensed for CD. I did briefly hear some of the Supraphon performances for noteworthy preludes but cut it short since I pretty much had no change in heart in preferring the VAI over Supraphon.

edit: one other interesting quote from Ts'ong that I'm not really sure what to make of - "...I wouldn't say he [Chopin] is the greatest composer of all time. He is however, the greatest "artist" of a composer if you know what I mean. And in that sense I think he appeals very much to us Orientals. There is just that incredible quality of taste and subtlety"

Mandryka

#237
Very much enjoying Richter's 1979 preludes.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Brian

Quote from: Todd on May 28, 2022, 07:55:30 AM
A few years back I went on a mini-Mazurka bender.  Among complete sets I've heard, I prefer playing with an individual, or really interventionist, sound.  Vassily Primakov, Pietro De Maria, Arthur Rubinstein's first set, Yakov Flier, and Luisada's RCA set all stand out for me, with the unabashedly self-indulgent Primakov probably my favorite.  He seems to be one of those pianists who plays music a certain way just because he can.  As such, I'd love to see him take up recording again.

Among incomplete but still substantial blobs of Mazurkas, the inimitable Michel Block (on Pro Piano), William Kapell, and the micro-managed to the Nth degree Klara Min all stand out.  For small but substantive blobs, Halina Czerny-Stefańska and Ivan Moravec stand out.

Now that I stream more and more, I may have to dive even deeper to find the one or two or three new sets that hit the spot.  No other Chopin works seem to withstand such variety of interpretation.
Primakov on LP Classics, correct? I used to check their new releases both for his recordings and for archived stuff with his teacher Vera Gornostaeva. You're right, he kind of turned to producing others' projects instead, and it looks like the label as a whole may now be defunct.

I recently enjoyed streaming the Eugen Indjic cycle in three sittings.

Todd

Quote from: Brian on May 30, 2022, 04:59:06 AMPrimakov on LP Classics, correct?

Yes.  Sometimes, some artists just stop making widely distributed commercial recordings for whatever reason.  Look at Julia Fischer, for instance.  Hopefully, artists in their prime can make it back into the studio, or at least have some live recordings released.

Indjic is indeed excellent in this repertoire - and all repertoire I've heard him play. 
The universe is change; life is opinion. - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

People would rather believe than know - E.O. Wilson

Propaganda death ensemble - Tom Araya