Blind Comparison: Mahler Symphony no.1

[madaboutmahler]

http://www.youtube.com/v/WLR98iCcYOI


Found a good sample we could use for the third movement, this performance might win gold!

Edit: It sounds strange hearing it in a major key now!!

[DavidRoss]

and the winner is....BOULEZ 

One of my top choices, fer shure ... along with half a dozen others!    That and Boulez's 6th rekindled my interest in Mahler many years ago and led me to collect his cycle, anxiously anticipating each release and buying them unheard as issued. Got equally nutty about MTT's Mahler cycle and Gielen's (but was late to the party for that one). Seldom have to buy without hearing them first these days, thanks to Naxos, Mog, & Spotify!

[johndoe21ro]

I believe any worthy Mahler should be one conducted by Bernstein, Chailly, Bertini, Ozawa, Michael Tilson Thomas, Gielen, Tennstedt... maybe Alan Gilbert's and Honeck's too. I'm not all smiles about Boulez, Giulini, Eschenbach. I just posted this thinking someone in great search prowess might look into one of these guys and find the one ringing best. I own Bernstein's, Chailly's, Bertini's and Gielen's complete Mahler cycles. I own some MTT, less Boulez and Ozawa. Heard some interesting Eschenbach and not a very bad Giulini. Alan Gilbert's 9th (unfortunately the only one I have so far) is absolutely mind blowing. BIS is definitely on the wave sound-wise too. Any Mahler aficionado should try some Chailly, some Bertini, maybe Gilbert. Any of them might be the correct answer. Hope any reader understands I posted my personal opinions. I might be wrong. For Mahler's sake I hope I'm not.

[johndoe21ro]

As of today, I fell in love with Honeck's No.1 of Mahler.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Op95WFXnIuo

I've tried to listen to all No.1's I have these days and today, after Honeck, my eyes are definitely more wide open. This is a beautiful coloured interpretation, very natural, extremely gentle and yet so dynamic. Honeck's caress is so exhilarating. Exton is top notch when talking about sound quality, too. My version, the album version is with the Pittsburgh Symhpony Orchestra. It's definitely a must hear...

[DavidRoss]

As of today, I fell in love with Honeck's No.1 of Mahler.

Best of his lot, so far, and an alternate take that's exhilarating even if not quite consistent with my preferences. This and Fischer's new M1 represent opposite poles of the interpretive spectrum.

You might also like Suitner's M1.

[johndoe21ro]

Best of his lot, so far, and an alternate take that's exhilarating even if not quite consistent with my preferences. This and Fischer's new M1 represent opposite poles of the interpretive spectrum.

You might also like Suitner's M1.

I agree. Didn't fully appreciate his 5th (my favorite) but No.1 is great. I'll try to 'sniff' some Suitner too. Thanks.

[Sergeant Rock]

I too think Honeck's First is sensational...and agree his Fifth is a major disappointment. But I love his Fourth, too, although I understand if some think it mannered. Honeck's Third I'm still digesting.

Sarge

[johndoe21ro]

I hope I'm not OT...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DuOeSFriWfs&list=UU0pB0uVuGW35dsB7QGai_aQ&index=1&feature=plcp

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jH2FZmH-_r0&feature=relmfu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_s5ACLHW9JQ&feature=relmfu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uyMp-mlbG8w&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-EjpcFv_wQ&list=UU0pB0uVuGW35dsB7QGai_aQ&index=3&feature=plcp

[xochitl]

i haven't heard the cd version of the 5th with honeck, but his philharmonie concert on youtube has the most mindblowing first movement [probably rivalling Lenny].  the rest of the symphony kinda ran out of steam tho

[madaboutmahler]

I hope I'm not OT...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DuOeSFriWfs&list=UU0pB0uVuGW35dsB7QGai_aQ&index=1&feature=plcp

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jH2FZmH-_r0&feature=relmfu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_s5ACLHW9JQ&feature=relmfu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uyMp-mlbG8w&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-EjpcFv_wQ&list=UU0pB0uVuGW35dsB7QGai_aQ&index=3&feature=plcp

Thanks for posting these links, Radu. 'Conducting Mahler' looks particularly interesting, I'll try to get hold of the  whole film some time. It's great to read your enthusiasm for Mahler!

Right, all audios sorted now, just need to upload them. You can be expecting the message early this evening! What a joy it has been to listen to 24 different performances of the first movement!  

[madaboutmahler]

Ok, all of the links have now been sent out. If you have not recieved your link, please let me know as soon as possible!

Let's put the first voting deadline at Saturday 8th September, is that ok with everyone? Of course, if you wish to, and have the time, please let me know if you would like to do more than one group.

Just so you are aware, only 4 recordings from each of the groups will be going through to Round 2. So, the 4 in your group with the least number of votes shall be eliminated.

Happy Voting everyone!

[johndoe21ro]

Forgive me for not searching backwards... What do you mean by me being in the 'X' Group. Why are more groups? What's the difference?

[madaboutmahler]

Forgive me for not searching backwards... What do you mean by me being in the 'X' Group. Why are more groups? What's the difference?

No worries - there are 3 groups. A, B, C. The 24 performances selected are shared equally between those three groups, so there shall be 8 different performances in each different group. You are allocated to one of these groups to begin with, but if you have the time, and wish to, you can compare another of the groups too, or even all 3!

[trung224]

  Here is my vote
B1:  What the performance! The opening with quite and pause creat the sense of mystery. The rest is full of angst, powerful. Rank 1. I have heard so many Mahler 1 but none of those like this. Rank 1
B2: The first hearing make me think that performance is too leisure and underplayed, but the rhapsodic character (which IMHO is important in Mahler 1 ) is clearly demonstrated. The portamenti in the string (which is disappeared in 21st century) create the dance-feel for this performance. I guess this is performed by the first generation of Mahler conductor like Barbirolli, Horenstein or possibly Kubelik. Rank 2
B3: Detail but routine, underplayed. Rank 8
B4: the performance is underplayed, but in some moment tempo is slow down to creat the tension in next section, very convincing. The brass is so great, energetic but detail, emotional , I guess this is from Chicago Symphony Orchestral. Rank 4
B5: Great opening with so much tension, but the second section is too restrained though tempo is right and the detail is well-judged. Rank 5
B6: Great opening, tempo is somewhat erratic but still impressive, especially in the ending, remind me of the marverick conductor like Scherchen but in better sound, possibly Gergiev. The performance underlined on the dark side, aggressive character with expense of the lightness, youthfulness. Rank 3
B7: Energetic but still in control. Good but not special. Rank 6
B8: Underplayed, sometimes detail is very distinctive and convincing, but that all. Rank 7

To sum up, B1>B2>B6>B4>B5>B7>B8>B3

[johndoe21ro]

I'm quite excited. Hope I didn't blow it too bad. The judgement was made solely on headphones listening, last night...
B1. quite well balanced. Nothing special about it, yet nothing wrong. I'm afraid I couldn't find anything special. No faults whatsoever so this is my no.1
B6. pretty heavy and veiled opening. Lot of tension and mistery into it. Interesting ending with some slow pacing for energy build up.
B3. a little sterile or artificial but I liked it. Besides that, nothing wrong with it. Can't surely tell why I liked it. Could this be Chailly?
B7. strange linear tension build up. A little too fast paced at times. Maybe a little sterile...
B8. not bad at all but a little sterile. Powerful yet artificial.
B4. a little too colourful and unengaging. Needs more contrast.
B5. a little too fast paced. Lacks power. Some colours. The end is definitely better.
B2. worst of all. Very rustic and colourful. Totally unengaging. Mahler is definitely explosive. It needs contrast, power, depth. It's too floral, too joyful for my taste...

B1>B6>B3>B7>B8

I am pretty sure my results are pretty messed up. Mahler is quite difficult to judge and the great choice of interpretations are overwhelming. Can't take any decision without listening to all 8 pieces at a time... and 8 is a little too much for such a complex piece. I'll try to listen again one of these days. Maybe I'll change my mind a little.

[DavidRoss]

Okay, Daniel -- I listened to each of the selections ONCE, making some notes and then ranking them.  I liked only three of them: B8, B7, and B1. B3 and B6 round out my preferred 5, less because of their virtues than because of the other choices' vices. I'd like the links to the other groups, if you please, for what I welcome most about this exercise is the chance to observe my own responses to these samples without knowing who's playing. I see it as a gut check of my own tastes, rather than an effort to rank contenders from best to worst.

Ranking (most liked to least liked):
B8
B7
B1
B6
B3
B5
B4
B2

This is an interesting exercise and I see now why the results of the M6 comparison were so puzzling to some of us who love recordings that did not fare well. It's very difficult to make meaningful judgments about a 60 minute long piece from just a couple of short excerpts.  (Where's Paul Best when we need him? )

Notes:


#3 B1 (live) – opening damned near perfect, strings a little soft/quiet, timing/tempo right on, off-stage horns right on, cuckoo call could be a touch saucier, low strings could be a bit more ominous, could be a bit more swing into stroll
--closing could be a bit edgier but emphasis and balance are well-chosen, beautiful build into the big finale with wonderful whooping brass, nice raucous edge, basses seem a bit underpowered, overall very good!

#8 B2—opening: WTF is that droning in the background—a DC10? And what's with the somnambulant "bubbling" winds? Horns sound awful (crappy recording quality). Is this orchestra on 'ludes?
--closing: still sleepwalking and with abominable sound quality. Weak horn calls at end. Tinny sound. Awful pacing. How can I put this kindly?  Oh, yeah – everything about this recording sucks!

#5 B3—opening:  same droning—awful balance. Also a bit drowsy, but better than 2 and with much better SQ.
Horns are lovely, full-bodied, resonant, plucked strings properly brisk, nicely ominous basses. But falls apart just before swinging into jaunty stroll
Ending—Love the strings here, winds a bit weak. Horn call very good. Pacing of buildup to finale good. Overall pretty good. Nothing to write home about but nothing drastically wrong, either. Nice timpani at end.

#7 B4—better balances at opening (no DC 10 taking off), but a bit perfunctory, dampening the mystery. Off stage brass a bit too enthusiastic/brisk, cuckoo thin & shrill, horns sound like they're under Wagner's Rhine.  Swing into country stroll well managed but a bit lethargic.
Closing—lovely at first (but don't like sound of horns—muddy), buildup a little brisk, no mystery, no sense of the ominous implacable, just a bit heavy-handed and rhythmically inflexible.

#6 B5—just a touch fast and perfunctory, diminishing the mystery of primordial awakening, the horns sound nostalgic—not right at all, Winds squawky & lifeless
Closing—still too hurried, no savoring of buildup, sound thin, all a bit brusque, not a unified effect leading to finale, as if different sections of orchestra are doing their own thing

#4 B6—too perfunctory, intrusive audience coughing, poor SQ, DC10, good hunting horns, phrases unfinished--brusque instead of lingering, savoring; low strings much too fast;  Swing is lackluster—doesn't swing at all
Closing—sounds fine at first, build up good, just a touch fast, but good sense of implacable momentum;
Whooping horns nice but too smooth, no raucous edge, pacing good throughout this section, orchestra on same page. Finish very good.

#2 B7- opening good, more time to breathe and build, good bubblies, off stage good, all good so far, cuckoo tone could be a lot better, horns good,  balances good, nicely ominous bass strings, fine swing into jaunt, could be a bit brisker but still good
Closing—good enough that I found myself caught up in listening instead of judging –all quite good!

#1 B8—opening:  beautiful, perfect—timing, tempo, balances, pacing, nice graceful swing into stroll
Closing—very good, damned near perfect again!

[mc ukrneal]

Wow, you guys were quick! First day and already three votes!

[DavidRoss]

Wow, you guys were quick! First day and already three votes!

No problem finding an hour and a half to fit this in on the weekend but it might not be so easy to find the time later on!

[johndoe21ro]

Okay, Daniel -- I listened to each of the selections ONCE, making some notes and then ranking them.  I liked only three of them: B8, B7, and B1. B3 and B6 round out my preferred 5, less because of their virtues than because of the other choices' vices. I'd like the links to the other groups, if you please, for what I welcome most about this exercise is the chance to observe my own responses to these samples without knowing who's playing. I see it as a gut check of my own tastes, rather than an effort to rank contenders from best to worst.

Ranking (most liked to least liked):
B8
B7
B1
B6
B3
B5
B4
B2

This is an interesting exercise and I see now why the results of the M6 comparison were so puzzling to some of us who love recordings that did not fare well. It's very difficult to make meaningful judgments about a 60 minute long piece from just a couple of short excerpts.  (Where's Paul Best when we need him? )

Notes:


#3 B1 (live) – opening damned near perfect, strings a little soft/quiet, timing/tempo right on, off-stage horns right on, cuckoo call could be a touch saucier, low strings could be a bit more ominous, could be a bit more swing into stroll
--closing could be a bit edgier but emphasis and balance are well-chosen, beautiful build into the big finale with wonderful whooping brass, nice raucous edge, basses seem a bit underpowered, overall very good!

#8 B2—opening: WTF is that droning in the background—a DC10? And what's with the somnambulant "bubbling" winds? Horns sound awful (crappy recording quality). Is this orchestra on 'ludes?
--closing: still sleepwalking and with abominable sound quality. Weak horn calls at end. Tinny sound. Awful pacing. How can I put this kindly?  Oh, yeah – everything about this recording sucks!

#5 B3—opening:  same droning—awful balance. Also a bit drowsy, but better than 2 and with much better SQ.
Horns are lovely, full-bodied, resonant, plucked strings properly brisk, nicely ominous basses. But falls apart just before swinging into jaunty stroll
Ending—Love the strings here, winds a bit weak. Horn call very good. Pacing of buildup to finale good. Overall pretty good. Nothing to write home about but nothing drastically wrong, either. Nice timpani at end.

#7 B4—better balances at opening (no DC 10 taking off), but a bit perfunctory, dampening the mystery. Off stage brass a bit too enthusiastic/brisk, cuckoo thin & shrill, horns sound like they're under Wagner's Rhine.  Swing into country stroll well managed but a bit lethargic.
Closing—lovely at first (but don't like sound of horns—muddy), buildup a little brisk, no mystery, no sense of the ominous implacable, just a bit heavy-handed and rhythmically inflexible.

#6 B5—just a touch fast and perfunctory, diminishing the mystery of primordial awakening, the horns sound nostalgic—not right at all, Winds squawky & lifeless
Closing—still too hurried, no savoring of buildup, sound thin, all a bit brusque, not a unified effect leading to finale, as if different sections of orchestra are doing their own thing

#4 B6—too perfunctory, intrusive audience coughing, poor SQ, DC10, good hunting horns, phrases unfinished--brusque instead of lingering, savoring; low strings much too fast;  Swing is lackluster—doesn't swing at all
Closing—sounds fine at first, build up good, just a touch fast, but good sense of implacable momentum;
Whooping horns nice but too smooth, no raucous edge, pacing good throughout this section, orchestra on same page. Finish very good.

#2 B7- opening good, more time to breathe and build, good bubblies, off stage good, all good so far, cuckoo tone could be a lot better, horns good,  balances good, nicely ominous bass strings, fine swing into jaunt, could be a bit brisker but still good
Closing—good enough that I found myself caught up in listening instead of judging –all quite good!

#1 B8—opening:  beautiful, perfect—timing, tempo, balances, pacing, nice graceful swing into stroll
Closing—very good, damned near perfect again!

@ David: Glad to see that there's a slight resemblance in our ranking. At least we agree that B2 is the worst performance and B1 is a damn good one. It's my first blind comparison and I was in doubt about my capacity to discern anything... Really anxious to find out about who's conducting what piece...

@Daniel: Fire another group of performances! I'm sure I can find some spare time to listen to another group before the deadline.

[xochitl]

b1
b8
b4
b2
b7
b6
b3
b5

im pretty sure i know what recording b1 is so bias probably played part...but it's just so perfect!
after that i only really liked b8 b4 and b2.  the rest were either missing that 'special' feeling or badly played imo