Opera: Is It Live or Is It Memorex ... er ... Blu-Ray?

[DavidRoss]

Howdy, opera fans!

Elsewhere on this forum a newbie recently expressed his wish to learn to enjoy opera. (The relevant posts begin here: http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,18008.msg661035.html#msg661035

A few posters offered their advice. (Ain't this a great site?!) One fellow claimed, repeatedly, that "opera on blu ray is better than opera in the opera house."

To me that statement was absurd, indicating at best muddy thinking trapped in a category error, but he insisted not just that he, personally, enjoys watching opera videos more than attending live opera, but that his preference reflects an absolute superiority of the video representation to what I naïvely call "the real thing."

My question for you dedicated opera buffs is this:

What do you think about the difference between live opera and opera reproduced via media such as blu ray or webcast? And how do you compare your own experience of opera via such media with your experience of opera in the flesh?

And if you wish to comment further on future developments in opera "transmission" and their probably consequences for the art, I would love to see your thoughts!

Thanks!

[Mirror Image]

I never experienced opera live, so I couldn't say what I'm missing, but I think seeing opera would be an incredible experience, especially if it's an opera that I've been really wanting to see live like Shostakovich's Lady Macbeth of Mtsensk, Debussy's Pelleas et Melisande, or Berg's Wozzeck, but all of these can easily be purchased on Bluray or DVD and watched in the comfort of your own home.

[Tsaraslondon]

Opera is a tricky thing to bring off, so many elements have to be right to bring it off, but when it all goes right, nothing can replace the live experience. Sometimes it's difficult to know why one night goes better than another. I have often seen the same production (whether it be opera, ballet or a play) on different nights, and the two nights have produced completely different results, even though all the elements were the same. I can only ascribe this to the audience, as no two audiences will ever be the same. When something really works, and you feel that the audience are as a single body, almost on stage with the performers, then it can be one of the most exciting experiences in the world.

This is surely true of sport as well. I thoroughly enjoyed the BBC's excellent coverage of the 2012 Olympic Games, and you could quiet well argue, that, watching it on TV, I got a better view than if I'd been there. No doubt I did, but I'm willing to bet that the live experience of being there in the stadium, on the occasion that Jennifer Ennis, for instance, got her gold was far more thrilling than anything I could experience via the medium of television.

[Sammy]

I never experienced opera live, so I couldn't say what I'm missing, but I think seeing opera would be an incredible experience, especially if it's an opera that I've been really wanting to see live like Shostakovich's Lady Macbeth of Mtsensk, Debussy's Pelleas et Melisande, or Berg's Wozzeck, but all of these can easily be purchased on Bluray or DVD and watched in the comfort of your own home.

No live opera?  Now's your opportunity to attend one (and bring a date!).

My view is that live opera is a much more rewarding experience than watching at home which I tend to find rather boring.

[Mirror Image]

No live opera?  Now's your opportunity to attend one (and bring a date!).

My view is that live opera is a much more rewarding experience than watching at home which I tend to find rather boring.

I'm sure there's nothing that can replace the feeling and atmosphere of a live opera performance, but not all of us have the luxury of seeing opera performed live by top-notch vocalists, conductors, and orchestras. It's not like I live in Vienna, Berlin, or London. I live in Georgia of the United States, which I like to call the end of civilization.

[bigshot]

I like how the thread was diverted and my comments were paraphrased without actually presenting any of my points. Nice technique!

Here is where I'm discussing this topic. If the mods want to move it, they can.

http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,18008.100.html

[DavidW]

I like theater, opera and music performed live.  Regardless of production values.  It is art that enriches the community as a whole.

It's not just about which is better for personal education, enlightenment, entertainment and reflection... and while dvd/bds gladly serve that personal purpose with excellent fidelity they can not bring culture to the communities that we live in.

Now is something lost in the translation to home video?  Besides the feeling of spontaneity and occasion, perhaps so... but I tire of that debate.

[DavidRoss]

I'm sure there's nothing that can replace the feeling and atmosphere of a live opera performance, but not all of us have the luxury of seeing opera performed live by top-notch vocalists, conductors, and orchestras. It's not like I live in Vienna, Berlin, or London. I live in Georgia of the United States, which I like to call the end of civilization.

Here you go: http://www.atlantaopera.org/1213season.aspx Three perennial favorites with package prices as low as $75 for the entire series. Granted, it might not be as great an orchestra or production as the San Francisco Opera, but it's close to hand, you'd be directly supporting the arts in Georgia, and you might be very pleasantly surprised by how much you enjoy it.

[DavidRoss]

I like how the thread was diverted and my comments were paraphrased without actually presenting any of my points. Nice technique!

Paraphrasing? What paraphrasing?  I directly quoted your comment and paraphrased nothing. I then summed up your point of view repeatedly espousing an absolute qualitative superiority of opera videos over live opera and classified it, correctly, as a category error. And I linked directly to the thread so that interested parties could easily see it for themselves rather than content themselves with a brief summary of it.

Did I misrepresent your position? If so I apologize, even though my summary was made in good faith and accurately depicts your position to the best of my understanding. If I am wrong then I look forward to your restatement of it, clarifying the misunderstanding.

[Drasko]

In my experience live opera and recorded one and incomparable. The excitement and being caught up in the moment with that time-suspended feeling just never happens with me when watching opera on screen, no matter how good the sound system.

And when we talk of recorded opera I actually prefer audio-only to video. Close-ups of singers and sets shot in hi-definition have on me the verfremdungseffekt and in a bad way. Unless the production is especially going for some sort of unique visual statement like with Robert Wilson or has an abundance of theatrical flair like Laurent Pelly's or these recent baroque re-creations, I much prefer to just hear it.

[DavidRoss]

Opera is a tricky thing to bring off, so many elements have to be right to bring it off, but when it all goes right, nothing can replace the live experience. Sometimes it's difficult to know why one night goes better than another. I have often seen the same production (whether it be opera, ballet or a play) on different nights, and the two nights have produced completely different results, even though all the elements were the same. I can only ascribe this to the audience, as no two audiences will ever be the same. When something really works, and you feel that the audience are as a single body, almost on stage with the performers, then it can be one of the most exciting experiences in the world.

This is surely true of sport as well. I thoroughly enjoyed the BBC's excellent coverage of the 2012 Olympic Games, and you could quiet well argue, that, watching it on TV, I got a better view than if I'd been there. No doubt I did, but I'm willing to bet that the live experience of being there in the stadium, on the occasion that Jennifer Ennis, for instance, got her gold was far more thrilling than anything I could experience via the medium of television.

Thanks! As you are one of the leading opera advocates on this forum, and one who enjoys both live opera and opera recordings, I especially hoped you would share your experience and well-considered opinions on the topic.

[TheGSMoeller]

Nothing beats a live performance, of anything, ever. I've seen many operas live, and at home (TV, Blue-ray, DVD, computer...) the nice thing about home viewing is that the camera allows more visual details to appear, facial expressions, costumes, set pieces. But to me, the most important factor is, and always will be the music. The emotion is truly communicated through the notes, the voices, the orchestra. That's why staged performances of operas are successful in the concert hall, because the performers can still convey those emotions sans costumes and sets.

Most of the operas I've bought for home viewing are those that I've never seen programmed near me or more than likely will never see as they are rarely performed.

Side note: Best operas I've seen live...Wozzeck and Tales of Hoffman

[Sammy]

I'm sure there's nothing that can replace the feeling and atmosphere of a live opera performance, but not all of us have the luxury of seeing opera performed live by top-notch vocalists, conductors, and orchestras. It's not like I live in Vienna, Berlin, or London. I live in Georgia of the United States, which I like to call the end of civilization.

Don't you ever go on vacation?  I've seen operas in Poland, Budapest and Stockholm.  And no, I'm nothing more than a middle-class guy.  Point is that if you want to see opera live, that's what you'll do.  Also, don't forget that date.  Any live performance is better when you're with a special lady.

[bigshot]

If I am wrong then I look forward to your restatement of it, clarifying the misunderstanding.

Okie doke. Here ya go...

http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,18008.120.html

[DavidRoss]

Don't you ever go on vacation?  I've seen operas in Poland, Budapest and Stockholm.  And no, I'm nothing more than a middle-class guy.  Point is that if you want to see opera live, that's what you'll do.  Also, don't forget that date.  Any live performance is better when you're with a special lady.

My special lady loves the opera. She loves the excuse to dress up, even if it's just in our newest Hawaiian shirts, and she loves going out for a nice dinner before, even if it's just at Max's Opera Cafe. But she especially loves the music and the theatricality of it all!

On the other hand, she has never sat through an entire opera DVD with me. Doesn't like 'em. Not the same.

[DavidRoss]

Okie doke. Here ya go...

http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,18008.120.html

Bad link. Doesn't lead to wherever you restated and clarified your position to correct my misunderstanding of it.

[Mirror Image]

Here you go: http://www.atlantaopera.org/1213season.aspx Three perennial favorites with package prices as low as $75 for the entire series. Granted, it might not be as great an orchestra or production as the San Francisco Opera, but it's close to hand, you'd be directly supporting the arts in Georgia, and you might be very pleasantly surprised by how much you enjoy it.

Thanks for digging this up and I frankly had forgotten about the Atlanta Opera, but they're not performing anything I'm particularly interested in.

[Mirror Image]

Don't you ever go on vacation?  I've seen operas in Poland, Budapest and Stockholm.  And no, I'm nothing more than a middle-class guy.  Point is that if you want to see opera live, that's what you'll do.  Also, don't forget that date.  Any live performance is better when you're with a special lady.

Thanks for your kind candor and for your advice. You're so full of wisdom.

[Tsaraslondon]

Thanks for digging this up and I frankly had forgotten about the Atlanta Opera, but they're not performing anything I'm particularly interested in.

When I was a young student in Newcastle upon Tyne we didn't get much opera, but some of the companies used to visit occasionally. I would go and see anything and everything they performed, whether it was something I thought I'd like or not, often from the cheapest seats in the house.  It was the best introduction I could have had. I saw modern pieces that never saw the light of day again, and popular operas like La Boheme. I am eternally grateful for that experience. In fact seeing an opera live was often my first experience of that opera, before I ever acquired a recording and listened to it. Indeed I describe one such event in the Der Rosenkavalier thread below. Sometimes I could be disappointed in something I wanted to see, and on others be completely bowled over by something I expected not to enjoy. Henze's Elegy for Young Lovers springs to mind. So I repeat, nothing can quite replace the live experience. Just go, even if it's something you think doesn't interest you. You may be pleasantly surprised.

[Mirror Image]

When I was a young student in Newcastle upon Tyne we didn't get much opera, but some of the companies used to visit occasionally. I would go and see anything and everything they performed, whether it was something I thought I'd like or not, often from the cheapest seats in the house.  It was the best introduction I could have had. I saw modern pieces that never saw the light of day again, and popular operas like La Boheme. I am eternally grateful for that experience. In fact seeing an opera live was often my first experience of that opera, before I ever acquired a recording and listened to it. Indeed I describe one such event in the Der Rosenkavalier thread below. Sometimes I could be disappointed in something I wanted to see, and on others be completely bowled over by something I expected not to enjoy. Henze's Elegy for Young Lovers springs to mind. So I repeat, nothing can quite replace the live experience. Just go, even if it's something you think doesn't interest you. You may be pleasantly surprised.

You see, here's the rub: I don't waste my hard earned cash on music I care nothing about. I know I don't want to see Puccini or Bizet or Verdi. I know these composers well enough to say they're not for me. For me, I don't see any logical reason why I would subject myself to music I don't enjoy. I'm simply not going to do if I have the choice which, in this case, I do.