Author Topic: Musical Offering BWV 1079  (Read 35152 times)

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Offline Mandryka

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Re: Musical Offering BWV 1079
« Reply #120 on: February 06, 2019, 06:23:29 AM »


Imagine a bunch of young British toffs playing Bach’s musical offering, maybe in a private concert in an Oxford SCR, and you’ll get the style of this recording from The Bach Players.

I love the sound in the ensemble pieces, the flute sounds fabulous to me, and it’s very truthfully and beautifully engineered. I’m not sure what to make of the keyboard player in solo pieces, when he has nowhere to hide,  I enjoyed hearing the recercar à 6 for the way he rolls the chords, the ricercar à 3 less so - generally his approach is the opposite of flamboyant. The instrument is fine if limited in the bass department.

The approach generally suits me very well, maybe because I am both British and a gent. And indeed it may not be totally inappropriate given the context of the first performance
« Last Edit: February 06, 2019, 06:36:15 AM by Mandryka »
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Offline Mandryka

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Re: Musical Offering BWV 1079
« Reply #121 on: July 25, 2019, 04:55:33 AM »
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/J69f-LdsacE" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/J69f-LdsacE</a>

The above is Rosalyn Tureck's BBC recording of WTC 2. At the end of it (2:47 or thereabouts) there's an interview with Michael Oliver where she says that, according to Wolf, there is internal evidence in the music of the keyboard part of the trio sonata in opfer to show that it was "conceived" for the piano. "In the actual figuration of this work it's very clearly a pianistic kind of conception," she says. Is that right? I don't have Wolf's book.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2019, 04:58:59 AM by Mandryka »
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Offline (: premont :)

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Re: Musical Offering BWV 1079
« Reply #122 on: July 25, 2019, 06:22:12 AM »

The above is Rosalyn Tureck's BBC recording of WTC 2. At the end of it (2:47 or thereabouts) there's an interview with Michael Oliver where she says that, according to Wolf, there is internal evidence in the music of the keyboard part of the trio sonata in opfer to show that it was "conceived" for the piano. "In the actual figuration of this work it's very clearly a pianistic kind of conception," she says. Is that right? I don't have Wolf's book.

Wolff writes (Bach,The learned musician page 429):

Moreover the motivic material of the interludes in the three-part Ricercar, significantly different from Bach's  other keyboard works, was inspired by and conceived for the fortepiano and its new - unlike the harpsichord's - dynamically flexible sound.

The words "significantly different from Bach's other keyboard works" may be questioned. Like all human beings Wolff sees what he wants.

He also argues, like so many before him, that the three-part Ricercare more or less is similar to the fugue Bach improvised on the kings fortepiano. Obviously this can't be proved.



« Last Edit: July 25, 2019, 06:26:44 AM by (: premont :) »
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Offline Mandryka

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Re: Musical Offering BWV 1079
« Reply #123 on: July 25, 2019, 06:44:20 AM »
Interestingly that's not what Tureck says, she specificly attributes to him the idea that the keyboard part in the trio sonata is for piano.

Just by the by the piece that seems to me "significantly different from Bach's  other keyboard works", or indeed anyone else's, is the solo keyboard movement in BWV 1019.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2019, 06:46:37 AM by Mandryka »
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Offline (: premont :)

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Re: Musical Offering BWV 1079
« Reply #124 on: July 25, 2019, 07:26:17 AM »
Interestingly that's not what Tureck says, she specificly attributes to him the idea that the keyboard part in the trio sonata is for piano.

There is no specific keyboard part in the trio sonata, only the figured bass part (continuo) which can be played on gamba or cello and any keyboard instrument.

Quote from: Mandryka
Just by the by the piece that seems to me "significantly different from Bach's  other keyboard works", or indeed anyone else's, is the solo keyboard movement in BWV 1019.

I agree very much with this.
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Offline Mandryka

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Re: Musical Offering BWV 1079
« Reply #125 on: July 25, 2019, 08:50:05 AM »
There is no specific keyboard part in the trio sonata, only the figured bass part (continuo) which can be played on gamba or cello and any keyboard instrument.



I never knew that -- I wonder what Tureck was talking about then.  She must have just got confused, but still that's surprising given she knew she was being recorded etc.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2019, 08:53:37 AM by Mandryka »
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Offline Mandryka

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Re: Musical Offering BWV 1079
« Reply #126 on: February 14, 2020, 08:19:51 AM »
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/vEhdwBslkXU&amp;t=787s" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/vEhdwBslkXU&amp;t=787s</a>

This is a concert in Munich with Johann Sonnleitner, Gudrun Schaumann, and Linde Brunmayr. Johann Sonnleitner will be familiar through his AoF

It's rapt and "deepy felt" -- I think it's a real achievement, and it must have been quite a night.

The sound on youtube is pretty terrible, though in a sense it's quite realistic. Imagine yourself at the back of the church, or maybe made to wait outside because you arrived late.

It helps greatly to play it through a good hifi, and not through computer speakers etc.
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Offline Mandryka

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Re: Musical Offering BWV 1079
« Reply #127 on: March 18, 2021, 03:07:40 AM »
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/2eKh8i8Y7xg&amp;ab_channel=AmiYamasaki" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/2eKh8i8Y7xg&amp;ab_channel=AmiYamasaki</a>

AMI YAMASAKI / J.S. Bach Musical Offering BWV1079
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Offline (: premont :)

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Re: Musical Offering BWV 1079
« Reply #128 on: March 18, 2021, 04:29:33 AM »
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/2eKh8i8Y7xg&amp;ab_channel=AmiYamasaki" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/2eKh8i8Y7xg&amp;ab_channel=AmiYamasaki</a>

AMI YAMASAKI / J.S. Bach Musical Offering BWV1079

What's the point here?
As soon as a word has left the lips, not even the fastest horse can catch up with it.

Offline Mandryka

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Re: Musical Offering BWV 1079
« Reply #129 on: March 18, 2021, 05:01:22 AM »
What's the point here?

She's clearly exploring some very original voice techniques, sometimes the sounds don't even seem to come from her body. I think an artist like Yamasaki is essentially within a tradition of self expression, a long tradition in the west which goes at least as far back as Fluxus.

Maybe someone here who understands Japanese could say whether there are any words involved in the performance, especially at the start where she seems to me to be putting words to the Bach tune.
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Offline T. D.

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Re: Musical Offering BWV 1079
« Reply #130 on: March 18, 2021, 02:52:13 PM »
I don't understand the Ami Yamasaki piece, but it appears to have been part of some kind of social media event.

Notes from the full Youtube page
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2eKh8i8Y7xg

National Kaohsiung Center for the Arts - Weiwuying
"Music Playing of Musical Offering"

I'm really honored to join this big challenge to play Musical Offering composed by J.S. Bach.

For participating, simply follow these steps:
1. Place your mobile phone or any devices for recording, and START
 ▸ Say Hi to everyone
 ▸ Start playing your Musical Offering version
 ▸ You can share some words before STOP
2. Upload the video to your social media.

#musicalofferingweiwuying

Offline Mandryka

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Re: Musical Offering BWV 1079
« Reply #131 on: March 19, 2021, 02:08:18 AM »
I don't understand the Ami Yamasaki piece, but it appears to have been part of some kind of social media event.

Notes from the full Youtube page
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2eKh8i8Y7xg

National Kaohsiung Center for the Arts - Weiwuying
"Music Playing of Musical Offering"

I'm really honored to join this big challenge to play Musical Offering composed by J.S. Bach.

For participating, simply follow these steps:
1. Place your mobile phone or any devices for recording, and START
 ▸ Say Hi to everyone
 ▸ Start playing your Musical Offering version
 ▸ You can share some words before STOP
2. Upload the video to your social media.

#musicalofferingweiwuying


Here's one from the same idea which sounds like James Tenney, a bit.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/Nkp_F-bSYAc&amp;ab_channel=%E7%B6%AD%E6%B1%80%E6%98%A0%E5%83%8F" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/Nkp_F-bSYAc&amp;ab_channel=%E7%B6%AD%E6%B1%80%E6%98%A0%E5%83%8F</a>

and another one which drags it kicking and screaming into the world of jazz

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/FaihimOoGP4&amp;ab_channel=NedRothenberg" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/FaihimOoGP4&amp;ab_channel=NedRothenberg</a>
« Last Edit: March 19, 2021, 02:12:43 AM by Mandryka »
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Offline bioluminescentsquid

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Re: Musical Offering BWV 1079
« Reply #132 on: March 19, 2021, 02:27:22 PM »
Here's one from the same idea which sounds like James Tenney, a bit.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/Nkp_F-bSYAc&amp;ab_channel=%E7%B6%AD%E6%B1%80%E6%98%A0%E5%83%8F" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/Nkp_F-bSYAc&amp;ab_channel=%E7%B6%AD%E6%B1%80%E6%98%A0%E5%83%8F</a>

and another one which drags it kicking and screaming into the world of jazz

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/FaihimOoGP4&amp;ab_channel=NedRothenberg" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/FaihimOoGP4&amp;ab_channel=NedRothenberg</a>

There's more of them under the mandarin hashtag, although they generally seem less interesting than the ones you posted. https://www.youtube.com/hashtag/%E8%A1%9B%E6%AD%A6%E7%87%9F%E6%8E%A5%E5%8A%9B%E8%81%AF%E6%BC%94%E9%9F%B3%E6%A8%82%E7%9A%84%E5%A5%89%E7%8D%BB

Offline Mandryka

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Re: Musical Offering BWV 1079
« Reply #133 on: April 16, 2021, 08:26:15 AM »
Leon Doeselaar plays the ricercar A3 on a piano

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/Lv5A1gy2oys&amp;vl=en" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/Lv5A1gy2oys&amp;vl=en</a>
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Offline Mandryka

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Re: Musical Offering BWV 1079
« Reply #134 on: May 13, 2021, 12:06:41 AM »


A middle of the road, and perfectly interpretation, well enough recorded, with no new bold insights as far as I can hear, but with one feature which makes it stand out as worth hearing: the harpsichord. It sounds good, not much bass but it sounds good nonetheless,  and when it plays in ensemble it twinkles, gleams, very nicely.

The violin and cello are well caught - you can hear the texture of the string - maybe too close for realism but still, rather fun to hear. And everyone plays in an engaged way.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2021, 12:09:13 AM by Mandryka »
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