Chopin Recordings

Started by George, April 06, 2007, 06:00:36 AM

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George

Quote from: Holden on December 06, 2021, 05:08:56 PM
Can't seem to find this anywhere - tired Qobuz, Spotify and Youtube with no success.

I have recordings by Rubinstein (x3) Moravec, Ciani, Fiorentino, Cziffra, Ashkenazy, Ginsburg (Op 25 only) and have heard online complete sets by Lisiecki, Arrau, Pires, Harasiewicz, Askenase, Tipo and a few others.

There are two favourites - Rubinstein stereo and Moravec. They are similar in so many ways but different tonally. I do not like the Arrau, I find the way he plays with the tempo frustrating, it breaks up the natural lines of Chopin's music.

Hi Holden,

Based on what you shared in this thread, I would suspect that you would not like Wasowski's interpretations. His set is OOP and yes, very hard to find, even to stream.

"I can't live without music, because music is life." - Yvonne Lefébure

JBS

Quote from: George on December 06, 2021, 01:03:46 PM
Hi JBS,

I sampled some of her Chopin on youtube. I find it just OK, though with nice sound. Her tempos are slower than I generally prefer and her interpretations seem rather unexciting.
Quote from: Mandryka on December 06, 2021, 01:22:17 PM
Her etudes and mazurkas are colourful, they ripple and sway. I haven't heard more, I'll try to have a listen to the preludes and nocturnes and the third sonata sometime soon. She was made for the barcarolle! The etudes are outstanding I think.

Thanks to both of you for the comments.

Hollywood Beach Broadwalk

George

Quote from: JBS on December 06, 2021, 06:26:22 PM
Thanks to both of you for the comments.

You're welcome.

I think it matters far more what you think of her Chopin. I'm also curious what Chopin recordings you own/enjoy.

I think with Chopin it is best to buy each genre (Nocturnes, Mazurkas, Ballades, Preludes, Polonaises, Etudes, Waltzes, Sonatas, Concertos) in separate CDs/CD sets. 
"I can't live without music, because music is life." - Yvonne Lefébure

JBS

Quote from: George on December 06, 2021, 06:54:43 PM
You're welcome.

I think it matters far more what you think of her Chopin. I'm also curious what Chopin recordings you own/enjoy.

I think with Chopin it is best to buy each genre (Nocturnes, Mazurkas, Ballades, Preludes, Polonaises, Etudes, Waltzes, Sonatas, Concertos) in separate CDs/CD sets.

I've got DeMaria's set and the Brilliant complete works with various pianists, everything Rubinstein recorded (because I have the Big Red Box of Everything He Recorded), about 5 installments of Ashkenazy's traversal, and the Fou Tsong set that just came out (which I haven't listened to yet). Beyond that there's a big hodge podge of Arrau, Perahia, Tharaud [I think I've got all the Chopin he's recorded], Lisiecki, Weissenberg, Pollini, Moravec, etc etc etc.  The most unfamiliar pianist out of  any of them is Ricardo Castro (Nocturnes). The only clear favorites I have are Rubinstein (II) for the Nocturnes and Vasary for the Ballades and Scherzos (probably for no deeper reason than his recording was my first for those).

I tend to agree with you about going for genres. But the Shebanova set popped into view and made me curious about her.

Hollywood Beach Broadwalk

George

Quote from: JBS on December 06, 2021, 07:45:48 PM
I've got DeMaria's set and the Brilliant complete works with various pianists, everything Rubinstein recorded (because I have the Big Red Box of Everything He Recorded), about 5 installments of Ashkenazy's traversal, and the Fou Tsong set that just came out (which I haven't listened to yet). Beyond that there's a big hodge podge of Arrau, Perahia, Tharaud [I think I've got all the Chopin he's recorded], Lisiecki, Weissenberg, Pollini, Moravec, etc etc etc.  The most unfamiliar pianist out of  any of them is Ricardo Castro (Nocturnes). The only clear favorites I have are Rubinstein (II) for the Nocturnes and Vasary for the Ballades and Scherzos (probably for no deeper reason than his recording was my first for those).

I tend to agree with you about going for genres. But the Shebanova set popped into view and made me curious about her.

Cool, Vasary was my first, although incomplete, set of the Nocturnes.
"I can't live without music, because music is life." - Yvonne Lefébure

Iota

Quote from: JBS on December 06, 2021, 07:45:48 PM
I tend to agree with you about going for genres. But the Shebanova set popped into view and made me curious about her.

I agree with Mandryka (#15330), her Chopin Mazurkas are one of the most pleasing sets I've heard. As fresh and real as they come imo.


Quote from: George on December 07, 2021, 08:19:45 AM
Cool, Vasary was my first, although incomplete, set of the Nocturnes.

Ditto. On a DG double LP.


staxomega

#1546
A Stravinsky and Ravel detour to go through some Chopin.

Stephen Hough Nocturnes - solid, mainstream. Wasn't running out to mash the buy button so I'll probably give it a couple of more listens, but leaning towards a pass.

Fou Ts'ong - only listened to his Chopin that was new to me, Ballades, Preludes are exceptional (Westminster, CBS respectively). It was Chopin's Piano Sonata 2 (CBS, Sony) that really stunned me. I've never heard it played like this before, sounds prewar except I don't think his very low level playing could be captured with noise floor limitation of 78. Exceptional Piano Sonata 3 as well. Not new to me, but had them on Essential Classics - Mazurkas are possibly my favorite complete cycle and Nocturnes are in the top 5. So the Eloquence and CBS boxes are very easily making my best of 2021 and of course all the other great non Chopin on the Westminster box.

staxomega

Quote from: Holden on April 23, 2021, 04:01:16 PM
OK, answered my own question. Even though I can hear this recording of the Preludes on Qobuz I still decided to get a physical copy which I've just purchased from Presto UK. I get the Etudes as well which I've never heard. In fact I wasn't aware that Orozco even recorded them. A pity there is no digital download.

Listening on Qobuz these are as good as I remember them. Lyrical, warm and full of nuance and inflection without any showy rubato. Worth getting IMO but YMMV.

I hadn't heard of this pianist until you mentioned him in this thread or another wrt to the Chopin Preludes. I just got in his Philips double CD with all of Rachmaninoff's Piano Concerti, fabulous!

JBS

I'm currently listening to the final CD of this set.  I'm less enthusiastic about it than others.

The Mazurkas are excellent and on their own are good enough to justify getting the set. The Ballades are also well above average. Much of the rest of the set is decent but not above average, and the Nocturnes were a disappointment: too brisk for me, at a quick pace that robs the music of its magic (timing was 101 minutes 33 seconds, compared to other pianists who can take a full 120 minutes or more).

Hollywood Beach Broadwalk

milk

Quote from: JBS on January 01, 2022, 06:07:10 PM
I'm currently listening to the final CD of this set.  I'm less enthusiastic about it than others.

The Mazurkas are excellent and on their own are good enough to justify getting the set. The Ballades are also well above average. Much of the rest of the set is decent but not above average, and the Nocturnes were a disappointment: too brisk for me, at a quick pace that robs the music of its magic (timing was 101 minutes 33 seconds, compared to other pianists who can take a full 120 minutes or more).
How does the piano sound on these recordings? I heard some other releases of Ts'ong and the piano sounded awful.

George

Quote from: JBS on January 01, 2022, 06:07:10 PM
I'm currently listening to the final CD of this set.  I'm less enthusiastic about it than others.

The Mazurkas are excellent and on their own are good enough to justify getting the set. The Ballades are also well above average. Much of the rest of the set is decent but not above average, and the Nocturnes were a disappointment: too brisk for me, at a quick pace that robs the music of its magic (timing was 101 minutes 33 seconds, compared to other pianists who can take a full 120 minutes or more).

Yeah, I sampled that set on Spotify and also did not like his nocturnes. 
"I can't live without music, because music is life." - Yvonne Lefébure

premont

Quote from: George on January 02, 2022, 07:12:42 AM
Yeah, I sampled that set on Spotify and also did not like his nocturnes.

Good to know, as we share tastes as to this  :)
γνῶθι σεαυτόν

JBS

Quote from: milk on January 02, 2022, 05:30:50 AM

How does the piano sound on these recordings? I heard some other releases of Ts'ong and the piano sounded awful.

He may have used that piano in some of these recordings; some of it was a bit plonky. I wouldn't call it awful, but I can see why it would turn you off.

Quote from: George on January 02, 2022, 07:12:42 AM
Yeah, I sampled that set on Spotify and also did not like his nocturnes. 
Quote from: (: premont :) on January 02, 2022, 10:23:15 AM
Good to know, as we share tastes as to this  :)

Try his Mazurkas, they're much better.

ATM I'm listening to Lisiecki's Nocturnes. Very much what I like.

Hollywood Beach Broadwalk

Brian

As a person who finds the Lisiecki approach snoozarific, I genuinely appreciate the comments. Helpful descriptions from someone who disagrees with me are more valuable than vague descriptions from someone who agrees  :)

JBS

Quote from: Brian on January 02, 2022, 05:53:51 PM
As a person who finds the Lisiecki approach snoozarific, I genuinely appreciate the comments. Helpful descriptions from someone who disagrees with me are more valuable than vague descriptions from someone who agrees  :)

Chaconne a son gout, as the French don't say.

Hollywood Beach Broadwalk

George

Quote from: JBS on January 02, 2022, 05:51:49 PM
Try his Mazurkas, they're much better.

I sampled his whole set when I was trying to convince myself to get the set. The sound and playing turned me off. Not saying the playing is bad, just not for me. And my Chopin shelf is already bulging.
"I can't live without music, because music is life." - Yvonne Lefébure

Brian

The ClassicsToday review of 2021 Chopin competition winner Bruce Liu's debut album contains an eye-popping set of comparisons to pianists past:

"As a daily blogger for the 18th International Chopin Competition in Warsaw, I was fascinated by one particular contestant, whose impetuous and colorful virtuosity harked back to such capricious interpreters as Shura Cherkassky and Georges Cziffra. To be honest, I didn't think the jury would take Bruce Liu's garishly detailed pianism seriously: after all, respectable modern day Chopin players aren't supposed to reverse dynamics and alter accents, or pull more inner voices out of the hat in one hour than Josef Hofmann did in his entire career. Yet the jury gave Liu first prize...The Grande Polonaise matches Hofmann's litheness and rhythmic élan note for note. The Mazurkas evoke Ignaz Friedman's timing and accentuation, minus the old master's added octaves and filled in chords."

- by Jed Distler

-

Today, stuck back at the stupid office, I'll be streaming samples of Liu and Ts'ong.

Brian

Wow, Ts'ong is very much a 19th century romantic, taking lots of liberties, letting the music float away from the bars and note values written by Chopin, almost improvised in phrasing. But to my surprise, given the timings Jeffrey mentioned, when I sampled Op. 27 No. 1, it was the slowest version I'd ever heard, close to stopped in its tracks. Maybe he is really inconsistent from one piece to the next.

The recorded sound here and in the mazurkas simply is not up to the standards of the era, sadly.

Bruce Liu is full of surprises, the Scherzo No. 4 is soft and fleet and salon-like rather than Big and Loud, the mazurkas capture some of the improvisatory spirit of Ts'ong but without so much obvious fiddling and overthinking. Definitely would like to hear more.

staxomega

#1558
Quote from: Brian on January 03, 2022, 10:52:26 AM
Wow, Ts'ong is very much a 19th century romantic, taking lots of liberties, letting the music float away from the bars and note values written by Chopin, almost improvised in phrasing.

Strongly agree, this is what impressed me so much when I first got his recording of the Mazurkas on Sony Essential Classics, then immediately went and bought the Nocturnes on the same series.

I wouldn't normally have Ts'ong's Nocturnes in my top 5 cycles*, it's because they are so radically different ala Jan Smeterlin or Cortot (sadly no cycle :( ), which is why I like them quite a bit. Nearly all those pre-war pianists took the Nocturnes at a much brisker tempo than how they're played now and Ts'ong being that style of pianist does the same. I actually wish the Eloquence Westminster box had more Chopin.

*My favorite cycles of Nocturnes are more mainstream interpretations not the pre-war style. I agree with you on Lisiecki, and I suspect I would have bought Stephen Hough, but like Arrau, Bridget Engerer, etc I don't really need another set in that style.

Ts'ong's control of dynamics is one thing that I really like, Moravec and Pascal Amoyel are two others that manage this extremely well.

So far for everything that he recorded twice, I prefer the earlier recordings he made on Westminster; Ballades, Piano Sonata 2, incomplete Mazurkas, etc.

The least interesting to me on the CBS/Sony box were the Preludes which were a bit lacking in imagination like the Mazurkas, Nocturnes, Ballades and Piano Sonatas. Though I do tend to like an overall darker conception of the Preludes. I agree with vers la flamme about the two Fantasies and Berceuse (Russell Sherman is another that really impresses me with the Berceuse). I was really hoping he recorded the Waltzes as Alice Sarah Ott's cycle is the only one that impresses me as much as Dinu Lipatti.

Quote
Bruce Liu is full of surprises, the Scherzo No. 4 is soft and fleet and salon-like rather than Big and Loud, the mazurkas capture some of the improvisatory spirit of Ts'ong but without so much obvious fiddling and overthinking. Definitely would like to hear more.

I saw the ClassicsToday email for this, I am now much more keen to hear this after reading what you wrote. Distler mentioning Cziffra, Horowitz and Hofmann didn't leave me with a feeling that these would be to my taste. Though it was a bit refreshing to read that another expert wrote what I've been feeling about Hofmann for a long time, though I'd never voluntarily write that on my own, I'm too much of a coward to criticize Hofmann in public like that  :laugh: ("... or pull more inner voices out of the hat in one hour than Josef Hofmann did in his entire career")

I don't hear the fiddling with Ts'ong. What I like is he sounds very free as if he is just playing for himself. What Jed Distler has written in the Westminster box notes when asked why he played like it didn't sound like he was deliberately trying to do something different like Fazil Say writes in the Beethoven box liner notes, his answer was along the lines of "this is the only way I know how to play" which to me makes sense given the Polish musicians he studied under. It sounds like a pre-war Polish pianist that stepped into a time machine and started making recordings 30 or 40 years later.


This is what I wrote in his RIP thread (https://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,30523.0.html)

I've been listening to his recordings of the Nocturnes and Mazurkas on the Sony Essential Classics discs, I'm not sure if these are re-recordings or the earlier made ones from the LP era. They're bloody incredible. He uses the perfect amount of rubato where in places it sounds like things are on the verge of being just about to collapse but it doesn't. But both sets sound quite natural as a whole and not like some caricature saloon music.

Quote
But to my surprise, given the timings Jeffrey mentioned, when I sampled Op. 27 No. 1, it was the slowest version I'd ever heard, close to stopped in its tracks. Maybe he is really inconsistent from one piece to the next.

I agree that op 27/1 from Ts'ong is not that great. Interestingly Bruce Liu is nearly identical timing to one of my favorites for that which comes in at 5:54.

Making my way through the Warner Camille Saint-Saëns box at the moment, I will come back to Bruce Liu and Ts'ong's Chopin Etudes after this.

Holden

I agree with vers la flamme about the two Fantasies and Berceuse (Russell Sherman is another that really impresses me with the Berceuse)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LxjqxnrDi0

The best Berceuse I've ever heard and from a pianist you would not normally associate with Chopin
Cheers

Holden