Chopin Recordings

Started by George, April 06, 2007, 06:00:36 AM

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Pohjolas Daughter

Quote from: Mandryka on November 20, 2022, 07:59:34 AM
The sound on those DG nocturnes which Ciani released is so disappointing that I too have found it hard to appreciate them.
I really enjoyed the live nocturne recording that I just listened to by him (via youtube).  Not a name that I had heard of before now, but not surprised that I enjoyed it as I see that one of his instructors was Cortot (whose Chopin recordings I adore).  Thanks for bringing up his name!  :)

PD

Mandryka

#1641
Quote from: Pohjolas Daughter on November 21, 2022, 12:25:09 AM
I really enjoyed the live nocturne recording that I just listened to by him (via youtube).  Not a name that I had heard of before now, but not surprised that I enjoyed it as I see that one of his instructors was Cortot (whose Chopin recordings I adore).  Thanks for bringing up his name!  :)

PD

I'm glad you enjoyed it -- but be aware that it is not the same as the one on the CD which George and I were discussing, which was this. I love the performances, but somehow the sound is a bit off-putting for me -- though not everyone has a problem with it though.

https://open.spotify.com/album/1Uv3dOuTkBYjUFbBfTvGXM

(I'm listening now to the op 62/1 on that big set of complete nocturnes by Ciani. I think it's wonderful. The time has come to revisit some Ciani recordings!)
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Pohjolas Daughter

Quote from: Mandryka on November 21, 2022, 03:58:58 AM
I'm glad you enjoyed it -- but be aware that it is not the same as the one on the CD which George and I were discussing, which was this. I love the performances, but somehow the sound is a bit off-putting for me -- though not everyone has a problem with it though.

https://open.spotify.com/album/1Uv3dOuTkBYjUFbBfTvGXM

(I'm listening now to the op 62/1 on that big set of complete nocturnes by Ciani. I think it's wonderful. The time has come to revisit some Ciani recordings!)
Yes, I saw that you had mentioned not liking the sound of the DG recordings.  Alas, I'm not on Spotify so I can't listen to it.

PD

Mandryka

#1643
Quote from: Pohjolas Daughter on November 21, 2022, 04:13:00 AM
Yes, I saw that you had mentioned not liking the sound of the DG recordings.  Alas, I'm not on Spotify so I can't listen to it.

PD

Well PD, I think you should remedy that PD . . . Q.

But in the meantime, they're here on the tube

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brQ6kyJHsM0&ab_channel=Narinternational
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Pohjolas Daughter

Quote from: Mandryka on November 21, 2022, 06:13:42 AM
Well PD, I think you should remedy that PD . . . Q.

But in the meantime, they're here on the tube

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brQ6kyJHsM0&ab_channel=Narinternational
Thanks.  I had found at least one live recording of the Nocturnes.  Is this link to the same recording that you own M?  Or is that a different one?  I did see a boxed set (also available as a download) online of various composers' works.

PD

Mandryka

You're right to question. This is the one I have and think is very good

https://www.discogs.com/release/11430078-Dino-Ciani-Plays-Chopin-Nocturnes-Waltzes-Barcarolle-Mazurkas-Polonaise-Fantaisie

and I thought it was it's the same nocturnes as the one on that youtube, which is here

https://www.discogs.com/release/19989166-Dino-Ciani-Chopin-Nocturnes

but I was wrong. I have never heard it in fact.


The op 62/1 you heard before is in this -- which I've had for years and years, but don't well enough to comment, apart from the op 62 nocturne.

https://www.discogs.com/release/15612682-Dino-Ciani-A-Tribute

Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Mandryka

#1646
Well having just listened to the Ciani D G Italia nocturnes - all of them - it is a single concert where he played all the nocturnes, so that's what he wanted, he made a cycle of them like some people do with the Scriabin sonatas  - I can confirm that it is wonderful and you all must beg, borrow and steal to hear it. Not to be confused with imitations (see above) The sound is not as bad as I'd remembered, certainly pleasurably listenable after a glass or two of wine, admittedly through a forgiving hifi.

The downside is that they are deep nocturnes, but not Brucknerian, heaven forbid. So that's OK.

His etudes on the Tribute box are also extremely poetic, I need some time to come to terms with the poetry.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Pohjolas Daughter

Quote from: Mandryka on November 21, 2022, 08:16:20 AM
You're right to question. This is the one I have and think is very good

https://www.discogs.com/release/11430078-Dino-Ciani-Plays-Chopin-Nocturnes-Waltzes-Barcarolle-Mazurkas-Polonaise-Fantaisie

and I thought it was it's the same nocturnes as the one on that youtube, which is here

https://www.discogs.com/release/19989166-Dino-Ciani-Chopin-Nocturnes

but I was wrong. I have never heard it in fact.


The op 62/1 you heard before is in this -- which I've had for years and years, but don't well enough to comment, apart from the op 62 nocturne.

https://www.discogs.com/release/15612682-Dino-Ciani-A-Tribute
The one that you had originally linked to (on Spotify) showed this cover--hence my confusion as to whether or not we were referring to the same recordings or is it just a case of it being on different labels (which could also mean that there's a mastering and or other issues).



PD

EDIT:  I just enlarged the image on Discogs and see that it's the same label as the one that I had posted an image of.  :)

Mandryka

Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Pohjolas Daughter

Quote from: staxomega on November 02, 2022, 04:26:41 AM
That wasn't me that said they were played without feeling, to me it sounds like he is really in love with the music and all the Chopin he plays. I think this is the only way he knew how to play Chopin seeing who he was taught by in Poland. The mazurka-like comment from me is because of the amount of rubato he uses instead of following the longer harmonic lines (Amoyel, Wasowski) combined with the brisker tempi. I'd take Ts'ong in Chopin any day over some bland "note perfect" pianists. That style of playing Chopin was starting to fall out of favor as early as the 1940s, for instance you can hear Cortot's late performances are not the same as his earlier ones due to the brow beating from myopic critics as pianists started to change their style of interpretation. It's amazing that Ts'ong lived as long as he did carrying on that old tradition.

I preordered both the Sony and Eloquence boxes the moment I saw them and like I was telling Pohjolas Daughter I've got 100+ hours of listening enjoyment from them (my preference for his Chopin performances is Westminster where Chopin is duplicated, but the Sony recordings were my introduction to him and I was immediately in love). I've seen several of his LPs sell for considerably more than the prices of both those boxes combined and I wasn't going to miss out on them.

On a brighter note I think we're starting to get back to where more creativity is encouraged, like Beatrice Rana's Chopin Scherzi are the best I've heard in 30 years.
Hi, and I hope that you see this.  We're all a bit confused here and are truly hoping that you will contribute here as we all do appreciate your voice.

Best,

PD

MickeyBoy

Quote from: Mandryka on November 20, 2022, 07:33:26 AM
I think this is a really valid point.

Just a minute, s.v.p. The vicissitudes of recording 78s influenced the playing of Cortot? I am not old enough to have heard Cortot in recital, but I would be surprised - very surprised - if there he weren't more spontaneous and conveyed that je-ne-said-quoi of musicality that exuded through his fingers.
...the sound of a low whisper

Mandryka

#1651
Quote from: MickeyBoy on November 21, 2022, 02:35:22 PM
Just a minute, s.v.p. The vicissitudes of recording 78s influenced the playing of Cortot? I am not old enough to have heard Cortot in recital, but I would be surprised - very surprised - if there he weren't more spontaneous and conveyed that je-ne-said-quoi of musicality that exuded through his fingers.

Ah well there's no reason not to hear Cortot live - though admittedly he was nearly 70.

https://open.spotify.com/album/2ZtKPzdGMs1lpdsEx357Wv

There's also the mystery of who is playing the keyboard in his 1930s recording of Brandenburg 5.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Holden

Quote from: Mandryka on November 21, 2022, 08:16:20 AM
You're right to question. This is the one I have and think is very good

https://www.discogs.com/release/11430078-Dino-Ciani-Plays-Chopin-Nocturnes-Waltzes-Barcarolle-Mazurkas-Polonaise-Fantaisie

and I thought it was it's the same nocturnes as the one on that youtube, which is here

https://www.discogs.com/release/19989166-Dino-Ciani-Chopin-Nocturnes

but I was wrong. I have never heard it in fact.


The op 62/1 you heard before is in this -- which I've had for years and years, but don't well enough to comment, apart from the op 62 nocturne.

https://www.discogs.com/release/15612682-Dino-Ciani-A-Tribute

I've got the tribute box set and while some of the sound on it is good there is some poor SQ recordings. He certainly is a pianist worth listening to.
Cheers

Holden

(: premont :)

Quote from: Mandryka on November 21, 2022, 07:03:53 PM
There's also the mystery of who is playing the keyboard in his 1930s recording of Brandenburg 5.

Mystery? The label tells that it's himself.

From this page:
http://trmsolutions.co.kr/music/Cortot/discography-cortot.htm?ckattempt=1

6 Brandenburg Concertos, BWV.1046~51(conducting)
1) École Normale de Musique, Paris
   * Recording date ; 1st Jun. 1933(No.1), 30th May & 2nd Jun. 1933(No.2), 2nd Dec. 1931(No.3), 29th May 1933(No.4),
         16,18th May 1932(No.5), 4th Dec. 1931(no.6)
   * with  Gabriel Georges Bouillon(vn; No.4), Jacques Thibaud(vn; No.5), Roger Cortet(fl), Pierre Morseau(fl; No.4), Alfred Cortot(p, No.5 only) /
Orchestre de l'École Normale de Musique
   * 78s info ; HMV DB 2033~34 - 2PG 806~09(-2,-1,-1,-1)(No.1)
                                DB 2035~36 - 2PG 801~04(-2,-4,-2,-3)(No.2)
                                DB 1259~60 - 0W 1024~27(-2,-2,-2,-2)(No.3)
                                DB 2037~38 - 2PG 797~80(-2,-2,-1,-1)(No.4)
                                DB 1783~84 - 2L 411~14(-2,-1,-3,-2)(No.5)
                                DB 1626~27 - 2W 1033~36(-1,-2&3,-2-1)(No.6)
    * LP ; Toshiba GR-2211(no.5)
   * CD ; EMI CHS 5 67211 2(2 set) 7049072(40 set), Koch H1-7705-2(2 set) / #7610(No.5, 2nd mvt.), Toshiba TOCE-7311~20
         (No.5; 10 set)
   * transfer from 78s ; Andrew Walter(EMI set)
As soon as a word has left the lips, not even the fastest horse can catch up with it.

Mandryka

I have seen it disputed - I saw someone argue that it is Wanda Landowska playing.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

(: premont :)

Quote from: Mandryka on November 21, 2022, 11:21:34 PM
I have seen it disputed - I saw someone argue that it is Wanda Landowska playing.

Where?

To let Landowska play the part on piano would be to miss the point. She would almost certainly have wanted to play the part on her harpsichord. But in the recording the part is played on piano, whereas the other concertos are blessed with an inaudible harpsichord continuo, as far as I have read. Maybe she plays the continuo, but I have not seen any reliable information as to whom plays the harpsichord continuo. 
As soon as a word has left the lips, not even the fastest horse can catch up with it.

(: premont :)

https://www.ebay.com/itm/363999528475

Here is a picture of the original 78rpm release of concerto no. 5. It is possible to read the names of the performers on it.
As soon as a word has left the lips, not even the fastest horse can catch up with it.

Mandryka

Ah yes, maybe I'm misremembering and the claim was that she played continuo.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Mandryka

Quote from: Holden on November 21, 2022, 11:06:46 PM
I've got the tribute box set and while some of the sound on it is good there is some poor SQ recordings. He certainly is a pianist worth listening to.

Strange op 10 etudes, sweet and cute. I enjoyed them at first but about half way through I got a bit distracted.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen