Chopin Recordings

Started by George, April 06, 2007, 06:00:36 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 16 Guests are viewing this topic.

Mandryka

Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

George

Quote from: orbital on March 26, 2009, 10:00:11 PM
He also has a live nocturnes set. It may be one of the very few instances where listening to their recording may beat actually being there  :D

Why is that?

orbital

Quote from: George on March 27, 2009, 02:32:07 AM
Why is that?
21 nocturnes in a row is not the ideal Chopin program IMO. Too one dimensional... put a scherzi in there between every 4 or so op.  $:)

George

Quote from: orbital on March 27, 2009, 02:57:22 AM
21 nocturnes in a row is not the ideal Chopin program IMO. Too one dimensional... put a scherzi in there between every 4 or so op.  $:)

Oh, OK, I see what you mean.

Mandryka

#564
I just brushed the dust off this CD -- hadn't heard it for years.

And yes, it is very very good (at least in the Etudes . Haven't played the Waltzes yet.)


There's a great pulse and verve to the Etudes. Tempos seem always just right. He makes a really clear clean sound from the piano. All the voices are really nicely layered. You get a  good sense of the structure to the longer Etudes.  Technically he's pretty damn good. He can play the fast etudes fast. The singing passages flow. And there's never too much cloying melancholy -- I think he's really at his best in the Etudes which sparkle -- The Revolutionary etude was very nice, as was the Butterfly (I like those nicknames!)

I think I prefer him to Cherkassky, and I think I like him more than Ginsberg in the Opus 10s. In fact, it may just be the best complete Opus 10 set I know.

It's harder to comment about his Opus 25s -- the competition seems stronger there (Sokolov, Ginsberg, Ashkenazi )

Can anyone recommend any other good Abbey Simon Chopin records?
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Holden

Quote from: Mandryka on March 28, 2009, 11:54:38 AM
I just brushed the dust off this CD -- hadn't heard it for years.

And yes, it is very very good (at least in the Etudes . Haven't played the Waltzes yet.)


There's a great pulse and verve to the Etudes. Tempos seem always just right. He makes a really clear clean sound from the piano. All the voices are really nicely layered. You get a  good sense of the structure to the longer Etudes.  Technically he's pretty damn good. He can play the fast etudes fast. The singing passages flow. And there's never too much cloying melancholy -- I think he's really at his best in the Etudes which sparkle -- The Revolutionary etude was very nice, as was the Butterfly (I like those nicknames!)

I think I prefer him to Cherkassky, and I think I like him more than Ginsberg in the Opus 10s.


Ginsberg recorded Op 10?
Cheers

Holden

Herman

If I may ask: when Simon plays the "complete" Waltzes, how many are we looking at? Fourteen or more?

Mandryka

#567
Quote from: Herman on March 28, 2009, 01:02:42 PM
If I may ask: when Simon plays the "complete" Waltzes, how many are we looking at? Fourteen or more?

You get 19 waltzes. I think that's the whole shooting match, except for one which is of disputed authenticity, and, of course, the lost waltzes.

Talking of waltzes, I am curious to hear Gianluco Cascioli's waltzes -- there are three of them on his scherzo CD, but I know he recorded more on LP. Does anyone have them/know where I can get a copy?  (I don't have a turntable any more.)

Quote from: Holden on March 28, 2009, 12:48:37 PM
Ginsberg recorded Op 10?

Ah. That explains why Ginsburg's record of the  Opus 10s hasn't registered positively with me. It doesn't exist.

In that case I'll tentatively go one step further than I did in the original post -- Abbey Simon's CD is the best non historical (i.e. not Cortot or Moiseiwitsch )  Opus 10 performance I know (there are big lacunas to what I've heard though -- I haven't heard Cziffra, for example)

Quote from: Peregrine on March 26, 2009, 11:13:04 AM
No worries, hope you enjoy what you hear  :)

Well I've only listened to the sonata so far and I do like what I hear.

My initial reaction is that the first movement is rather turbulant (no problem with that) and that it has the an outstanding final movement.

Thanks again.

Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

DarkAngel

#568
Quote from: Mandryka on March 29, 2009, 08:47:49 AM
You get 19 waltzes. I think that's the whole shooting match, except for one which is of disputed authenticity, and, of course, the lost waltzes.

In that case I'll tentatively go one step further than I did in the original post -- Abbey Simon's CD is the best non historical (i.e. not Cortot or Moiseiwitsch )  Opus 10 performance I know (there are big lacunas to what I've heard though -- I haven't heard Cziffra, for example)

The best way to get more Abbey is with two more Vox Box releases:



I own two of the three and think he is a real sleeper among Chopin performers, almost unknown. His waltzes as you say are about the best stereo versions available (I like them better than Cziffra). My preferred versions are historical with Lipatti/EMI and Cortot/Naxos getting the most play time for waltzes


Herman

I really don't need to hear more than one or two wlatzes in a recital, but the thing all recordings I have are 1 - 14 and maybe I'd like to have the post-posthumous ones, too.

BTW I seem to recall there was a discussion on the old forum in which a surprizing number of people agreed that the Lipatti Waltzes is rather overrated. The recording may be a self-perpetuating legend.

Holden

Quote from: Herman on March 30, 2009, 12:35:04 AM
I really don't need to hear more than one or two wlatzes in a recital, but the thing all recordings I have are 1 - 14 and maybe I'd like to have the post-posthumous ones, too.

BTW I seem to recall there was a discussion on the old forum in which a surprizing number of people agreed that the Lipatti Waltzes is rather overrated. The recording may be a self-perpetuating legend.

I was one of those but have slightly revised my opinion since hearing the almost complete set from the Besancon recital. These are actually quite passable but would still not rate in my top 3. (Ashkenazy, Anievas and Cziffra). The two studio recordings also differ from each other with one of them being what I call 'effeminate' in its approach. Overall, I find Lipatti to be very overrated.
Cheers

Holden

Dr. Dread

Quote from: Holden on March 30, 2009, 12:08:37 PM
The two studio recordings also differ from each other with one of them being what I call 'effeminate' in its approach.

This is music, not wrestling.  ;D

aquablob

Quote from: Holden on March 30, 2009, 12:08:37 PM
I was one of those but have slightly revised my opinion since hearing the almost complete set from the Besancon recital. These are actually quite passable but would still not rate in my top 3. (Ashkenazy, Anievas and Cziffra).

Which Cziffra—early '60s (14 waltzes) or late '70s (19 waltzes)?

Holden

Quote from: aquariuswb on March 30, 2009, 01:44:52 PM
Which Cziffra—early '60s (14 waltzes) or late '70s (19 waltzes)?

I feel that Cziffra lets the waltzes breathe much better in his 1962 recording and some of the insights he shows don't appear in the recordings he made 15 years later. If you compare him directly with Lipatti in the '14' he wins hands down. This is true dance music and Cziffra really brings this out whereas Lipatti tends to try and emphasise the lyrical side. This is why I like the recordings that Ashkenazy and Augustin Anievas made, the music sparkles and dances.
Cheers

Holden

Mandryka

Quote from: orbital on March 16, 2009, 01:12:30 AM


I think my favorite b minor sonata is that of Virsaladze's on her Russian Piano school CD.


Listenting to it now,  and it makes quite an impact.

Thanks for putting me on to it.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

orbital

Quote from: Mandryka on April 02, 2009, 03:14:47 AM

Listenting to it now,  and it makes quite an impact.

Thanks for putting me on to it.
I'm glad you enjoyed it :)

Mandryka

#576
I've decided that I like Weissenberg's Chopin -- a lot.

I haven't heard the concertos, but in the solo music it's marvelous the way he takes away all the fuzzy romantic mist -- and you can hear so clearly the harmonies, the different voices.

It's as if he finds the counterpoint -- but I think it still sings.

I have heard some people say his Chopin is monochromatic, mechanical, angry. Well -- not what I have heard.

He's not perfect like Michelangeli.  But he does something with the music that I find really interesting and expressive. And although it may fly in the face of performance traditions and (for all I know) the score itself, I think it is so authentically and poetically done that I am happy  to hear it.

Anyway -- I thought I'd just see if there were any other Weissenberg fans around.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

George

#577
Quote from: Mandryka on April 18, 2009, 07:12:43 AM
I've decided that I like Weissenberg's Chopin -- a lot.

I haven't heard the concertos, but in the solo music it's marvelous the way he takes away all the fuzzy romantic mist -- and you can hear so clearly the harmonies, the different voices.

It's as if he finds the counterpoint -- but I think it still sings.

I have heard some people say his Chopin is monochromatic, mechanical, angry. Well -- not what I have heard.

He's not perfect like Michelangeli.  But he does something with the music that I find really interesting and expressive. And although it may fly in the face of performance traditions and (for all I know) the score itself, I think it is so authentically and poetically done that I am happy  to hear it.

Anyway -- I thought I'd just see if there were any other Weissenberg fans around.

Thanks for your description, I am now curious to hear some of his Chopin, especially the Ballades or Scherzos. His Rachmaninov preludes were not quite my cup of tea so I am cautious... 

I know that orbital is a big fan of the pianist. He should be along soon... 8)

orbital

Quote from: Mandryka on April 18, 2009, 07:12:43 AM
Anyway -- I thought I'd just see if there were any other Weissenberg fans around.

You talkin' to me? You talkin' to me? You talkin' to me? Then who the hell else are you talking... you talking to me?   ;D

I'm a Weissenberg fan, definitely. But I am not sure about his Chopin. His 2nd concerto is good, but my view is that a detached Chopin is better served by Francois (whom I assume you like in Chopin?)

orbital

Quote from: George on April 18, 2009, 07:20:36 AM
Thanks for your description, I am now curious to hear some of his Chopin, especially the Ballades or Scherzos. His Rachmaninov preludes were not quite my cup of tea so I am cautious... 

I am not sure if I've heard his Ballades  ::) I have to check. But his nocturnes and sonatas are not very interesting. If you want to hear something, I'd recommend you start with the concerti (but you don't like them much, right?)

I like his Rachmaninov. If you want something you are not going to like for sure, try his Debussy  >:D