Chopin Recordings

Started by George, April 06, 2007, 06:00:36 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 11 Guests are viewing this topic.

George

Thanks for your thoughts, Mandryka!  :)

Mandryka

#661
I just listened again to Francois in the Preludes and the Second sonata.

I was not impressed. The Preludes seemed to lack the necessary gravitas, and I didn't notice any interesting musical ideas to compensate.

The second sonata is taken at breakneck speed. That's quite promising in the first movement, which is really exciting. But somehow it all seems pretty vapid in the end. He never seems to find the serenity that Pletnev and Michelangeli find. The tone is hard (problematically for the first time for me) and relatively monochromatic.

I won't listen again unless someone posts to say I have missed something.

I'll try and hear the third sonata and the etudes tomorrow.

It maybe worth checking the dates of the recordings. I think Francois took to the bottle and the pipe towards the end of his life -- with resulting poor performances. Maybe the Preludes and sonatas are from this period.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

George

Today DG released a CD that those rascals conveniently left out of the solo box that was released last year. It's from the very beginning of her career and is all Chopin. Samples sound great!



http://www.amazon.com/Argerich-Plays-Chopin-Martha/dp/B002KL3G1C/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1266338760&sr=1-1

George


Coopmv

Quote from: George on February 16, 2010, 07:52:48 AM
Today DG released a CD that those rascals conveniently left out of the solo box that was released last year. It's from the very beginning of her career and is all Chopin. Samples sound great!



http://www.amazon.com/Argerich-Plays-Chopin-Martha/dp/B002KL3G1C/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1266338760&sr=1-1

George,  any plan to buy this one?

George

Quote from: Coopmv on February 16, 2010, 05:07:56 PM
George,  any plan to buy this one?

Yes, the samples sound excellent.

Coopmv

Quote from: George on February 16, 2010, 05:49:17 PM
Yes, the samples sound excellent.

I find it hard to believe this recording has never been released before ...

George

Quote from: Coopmv on February 16, 2010, 05:53:15 PM
I find it hard to believe this recording has never been released before ...

I'm pissed that it wasn't included in the solo DG box that was released last year.  >:(

Lilas Pastia

Samson François in the 24 Études. To my ears this sounds better (sonically) than some of his other recordings. Fanciful and dramatic, more interesting than most.

Drasko

Quote from: Barak on February 16, 2010, 07:16:46 PM
Samson François in the 24 Études. To my ears this sounds better (sonically) than some of his other recordings. Fanciful and dramatic, more interesting than most.

Haven't heard the Etudes but fanciful and dramatic sounds like apt description of Francois' Chopin. He is one of rare pianists who manages to convey spur of the moment feeling in studio recordings, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't but it's almost always more interesting than most. Have you heard his waltzes, op.70/3 is one of the most fanciful Chopin recordings I heard, and I'm sure many hate it. Don't know if it has been already mentioned but EMI France should be coming out with set of his complete recordings, 30 something CDs I'm told, later this year.

Coopmv

Quote from: George on February 16, 2010, 06:49:55 PM
I'm pissed that it wasn't included in the solo DG box that was released last year.  >:(

Yeah, the same set we both bought ...    :(

Scarpia

#671
Quote from: Drasko on February 17, 2010, 12:39:32 AMEMI France should be coming out with set of his complete recordings, 30 something CDs I'm told, later this year.

Really?  They just released a box with his complete Chopin recordings (10 CDs) are they doing a second box with all EMI recordings?  (I have a copy of the old "collectors edition" of the Francois/Chopin collection, but it would be nice to have the rest of it as well.)



George

Quote from: Scarpia on February 18, 2010, 07:33:32 AM


I just listened to his Ballades 1 and 2 at lunch for the first time. At first, I thought it sounded a bit crude, a bit rushed, but as I continued to listen, I liked it a lot more. I love his intensity.

Scarpia

Quote from: George on February 18, 2010, 09:00:30 AM
I just listened to his Ballades 1 and 2 at lunch for the first time. At first, I thought it sounded a bit crude, a bit rushed, but as I continued to listen, I liked it a lot more. I love his intensity.

Those are some of the oldest recordings in the set and the technical quality of the recordings is an obstacle for me.  The Sonatas are more recent stereo recordings and have impressive intensity.

Mandryka

#674
Quote from: Scarpia on February 18, 2010, 09:03:45 AM
Those are some of the oldest recordings in the set and the technical quality of the recordings is an obstacle for me.  The Sonatas are more recent stereo recordings and have impressive intensity.

What do you think of his way with the Second Sonata?

To me, it lacked any sort of repose -- and I felt that was a real shortcoming.

But maybe I have been brainwashed by Michelangeli and by Cortot  and by Pletnev in this. Maybe you don't need to ever really relax in that sonata. I heard Rachmaninoff again recently, and his reading seemed pretty dramatic and energetic  all the way through.

So maybe I should open my mind a bit. I don't know.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Scarpia

Quote from: Mandryka on February 18, 2010, 10:15:51 AM
What do you think of his way with the Second Sonata?

To me, it lacked any sort of repose -- and I felt that was a real shortcoming.

I am hard pressed to imagine where one would  be reposing in that Sonata.

Drasko

Quote from: Scarpia on February 18, 2010, 07:33:32 AM
Really?  They just released a box with his complete Chopin recordings (10 CDs) are they doing a second box with all EMI recordings?

That's what I heard, probably one of those boxes like Nat, Ciccolini, Meyer and Cziffra, toward end of the year.

Mandryka

#677
Quote from: Scarpia on February 18, 2010, 10:34:27 AM
I am hard pressed to imagine where one would  be reposing in that Sonata.

Well one place I have in mind is in the second subject of the Funeral March.

Maybe repose isn't the word -- relax maybe.

Listen to Michelangeli, starting at about 2:34 of this clip

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0O0TA2G3tk8

And contrast Francois (at about 2:19), who remains kind of driven passim I think.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2VkMClzQ5IM&feature=related


Pletnev is another good reposer

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=692HE3UDee0&feature=related

Cortot is more like Francois, but still, more relax/repose/relief

(at about 2:18 and especially at 2:33 or thereabouts)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWa1bEobmxM


Rachmaninov doesn't chill at all.  But he's so good he can do what he wants.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6mIk90ORmw&feature=related

Of course -- I bet you hear it all very differently :)
There are some other places as well -- in the first movement.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Herman

IMO repose is a better word than relax. You can repose and retain intensity. And I think a certain degree of repose is a necessity.

I haven't heard those François recordings in a long time; I don't think I have any anymore. I used to think they were terrible (I like his Debussy and Ravel, which I have had from the late seventies), and I have the feeling this whole François craze here is just a fatigue symptom. If you want to keep making new Chopin interp discoveries, at some point you wind up with guys like Samson 'Steel Fingers' François.

Years ago I would have gotten this EMI box and checked it out one more time, but I won't. Perhaps it's my loss, but I haven't been losing any sleep over it.

Mandryka

#679
Quote from: Herman on February 19, 2010, 12:25:18 AM

I have the feeling this whole François craze here is just a fatigue symptom. If you want to keep making new Chopin interp discoveries, at some point you wind up with guys like Samson 'Steel Fingers' François.

Years ago I would have gotten this EMI box and checked it out one more time, but I won't. Perhaps it's my loss, but I haven't been losing any sleep over it.

I strongly disagree. You should start losing sleep.

The recordings are a mixed bunch -- but I will defend the Mazurkas against all attackers. And the Waltzes and Nocturnes.

What do you think of this? The late Mazurkas are particularly fine I think -- but they are not on youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bf0t-Usp5cc

I think he smoked and drank to much in later life -- hence the deterioration.

Quote from: Herman on February 19, 2010, 12:25:18 AM
IMO repose is a better word than relax. You can repose and retain intensity. And I think a certain degree of repose is a necessity.


So what do you think of the Rachmaninov performance?
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen