Chopin Recordings

Started by George, April 06, 2007, 06:00:36 AM

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Dancing Divertimentian

Quote from: Mandryka on March 18, 2010, 11:18:27 PM
You forgot four of the best: Pletnev and Virsladze and Pollini and Weissenberg.

I've never really cared for Pollini's Chopin - lacks some of the angularity I prefer.

The other three I haven't heard yet in Chopin but will definitely do some investigating. Thanks. :)
Veit Bach-a baker who found his greatest pleasure in a little cittern which he took with him even into the mill and played while the grinding was going on. In this way he had a chance to have the rhythm drilled into him. And this was the beginning of a musical inclination in his descendants. JS Bach

Scarpia

Quote from: George on March 18, 2010, 11:39:33 AMIf you are after an inexpensive Chopin set, I suggest the budget Rubinstein box on RCA or the somewhat more expensive set by Ashkenazy on Decca.

Expense is not the motivation, I've lot's of Chopin on the shelves (including most of the Ashkenazy).  Just wondering if it is interesting.  Cursory listening to excerpts seems to confirm you characterization.


George

Quote from: Dancing Divertimentian on March 19, 2010, 09:18:42 AM
I've never really cared for Pollini's Chopin -

Me neither. Except for his Etudes, which are impressive IMO.

I still need to hear his earlier EMI Chopin CD, as I have heard that it's good.

DarkAngel

Someone mentioned Zoltan Koscics set of Chopin Waltzes earlier.......I really love these spirited readings, in the same exaulted class as Cortot and Dinu Lipatti for me. Very cheap way to get them is in this dirt cheap 5 CD Chopin set at Amazon:

 

Also check the dirt cheap Rachmaninov set which has Kocsis performances of piano concertos 1,2,3,4

Scarpia

Quote from: George on March 19, 2010, 10:51:51 AM
Me neither. Except for his Etudes, which are impressive IMO.

I still need to hear his earlier EMI Chopin CD, as I have heard that it's good.

In my opinion, Pollini has improved with age, his early recordings strike me as technically impeccable but lacking in style or expression, while in his later recordings he has mellowed a lot.   I actually have Pollini's Etude disc, but I don't think I have listened to it, or any other recording of the Etudes, in 20 years or more.

Clever Hans

Quote from: Mandryka on March 18, 2010, 11:18:27 PM
I hate them. He plays them like they are peasant dances.

Not recommended by me -- he's lost the magic touch by then I think.

Who do you like in the Mazurkas, then? Chopin himself played them with extremely bent time. Have you heard Kapell?

In any case, I agree with the veto on Rubinstein. Personally, I think he is overrated and can't think of a single set of works in which he is better than anyone else. Except maybe the polonaises, where there are better individual interpretations.

Despite the fact that, as some people frame it, he championed a salon composer,
to put it politely, he mellowed as he aged and his interpretations became more and more uniform and urbane.

To put it strongly, he perfected a more commercial sound for his vast audience--i.e. he sold out.

I just think, even in his early recordings, he hides a lot of the edge and intensity of Chopin, making the music sound too genial and unambiguous. Sofronitsky is a great antidote to this.

Although, if one really wanted to hear Rubinstein at his best, I would point to the early Mazurkas and the middle mono Waltzes (for which I still prefer Cortot, Hofmann, Rosenthal, Sofronitsky, and Lipatti).




Mandryka

#706
Quote from: Clever Hans on March 19, 2010, 12:36:26 PM
Who do you like in the Mazurkas, then? Chopin himself played them with extremely bent time. Have you heard Kapell?


No -- I haven't heard Kapell.

Mazurkas = First Rubinsten; François; Horszowsky; Sofronitsky; Jonas; Michelangeli; Horowitz (some); Malcuzynski (some); Weissenberg; Luisada.

Mazurkas ≠  Fou Ts'Ong ; Friedman; Rubinstein's stereo; Zilberstein; Pogorelich.

Jury's out on Rubinstein's 50s and Wasowsky and Koroliov (but suspect he's for the reject list soon); Cherkassky, Wirsaladze; Moravec.

Quote from: DarkAngel on March 19, 2010, 11:39:50 AM
Someone mentioned Zoltan Koscics set of Chopin Waltzes earlier


Yes -- it's nice the way he plays them so fast. Very exciting.

The most interesting modern Waltz surveys I have heard are from Kocsis and Katsaris. And François (but maybe he's not modern.)

Katsaris really makes the music his own -- when I listen I am often surprised by his nuances, by melodies which he brings out which I hadn't noticed before.  Speeds are inclined to be slow.

Has anyone here heard any other Chopin from him?  (I haven't)

Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Scarpia

#707
Quote from: Mandryka on March 19, 2010, 12:56:02 PMKatsaris really makes the music his own -- when I listen I am often surprised by his nuances, by melodies which he brings out which I hadn't noticed before.  Speeds are inclined to be slow.

Has anyone here heard any other Chopin from him?  (I haven't)


I had this once, no more.  (It is currently available on Apex.)

Dancing Divertimentian

Quote from: George on March 19, 2010, 10:51:51 AM
Me neither. Except for his Etudes, which are impressive IMO.

Dang, I just recently let go of his Etudes...oh well, too late for another go-round... :(
Veit Bach-a baker who found his greatest pleasure in a little cittern which he took with him even into the mill and played while the grinding was going on. In this way he had a chance to have the rhythm drilled into him. And this was the beginning of a musical inclination in his descendants. JS Bach

George

Quote from: Dancing Divertimentian on March 19, 2010, 08:32:50 PM
Dang, I just recently let go of his Etudes...oh well, too late for another go-round... :(

No matter, it's mostly his technical prowess that is impressive. Like here, where he's crystal clear and clean - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwHgeDPhkts

Check out Ashkenazy for a comparison - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpZr_cbYbXo

After hearing Ashy (who is regarded by many as being one of the very best in the Chopin etudes, as I am sure you know) one hears how Pollini has this in the palm of his hand.

Herman

Quote from: George on March 19, 2010, 08:45:28 PM
After hearing Ashy (who is regarded by many as being one of the very best in the Chopin etudes, as I am sure you know) one hears how Pollini has this in the palm of his hand.

The only problem with Pollini's DG Etudes and Preludes is there is no music there.

As I'm writing this the 10/1 link you posted is playing, and it is completely bereft of any nuance. This piece can be played in such a way that it becomes a beautiful opening of a enchanting narrative. Pollini's just playing a ton of notes, with perfect control, indeed, but that's just typing.

George

Quote from: Herman on March 20, 2010, 12:54:36 AM
The only problem with Pollini's DG Etudes and Preludes is there is no music there.

That's why I began the post you quoted with this:

Quote from: George on March 19, 2010, 08:45:28 PM
No matter, it's mostly his technical prowess that is impressive.

Any reason you chose to edit that statement from the post you quoted of mine?


Herman

a habit of keeping the quotes brief.

George

Quote from: Herman on March 20, 2010, 12:39:12 PM
a habit of keeping the quotes brief.

I know what you're saying, but my post was only three lines long. Editing it, in this case, misrepresented my point.

Renfield

Quote from: George on March 20, 2010, 12:52:38 PM
I know what you're saying, but my post was only three lines long. Editing it, in this case, misrepresented my point.

In all fairness, he never said he explicitly disagreed with you, or interpreted your comment to begin with. :)

(So as to represent your point in any way.)

George

Quote from: Renfield on March 20, 2010, 01:11:10 PM
In all fairness, he never said he explicitly disagreed with you, or interpreted your comment to begin with. :)

That's partly my point. It appears that he does disagree, based on the fact that he only quoted part of my post.

Renfield

Quote from: George on March 20, 2010, 01:21:09 PM
It appears that he does disagree, based on the fact that he only quoted part of my post.

You lost me, here.

Dancing Divertimentian

Quote from: Renfield on March 20, 2010, 01:26:48 PM
You lost me, here.

Well, I certainly see George's point but perhaps nothing derisive was intended by lopping off part of his post. Just a mousing/snipping error, maybe... :)
Veit Bach-a baker who found his greatest pleasure in a little cittern which he took with him even into the mill and played while the grinding was going on. In this way he had a chance to have the rhythm drilled into him. And this was the beginning of a musical inclination in his descendants. JS Bach

kishnevi

#718
Quote from: Dancing Divertimentian on March 20, 2010, 06:31:52 PM
but perhaps nothing derisive was intended by lopping off part of his post.

Agreed.
I tend to snip off anything not related to the point I'm directly addressing, which means that generally I'm agreeing with it (or at least, don't think it necessary to state any disagreement) or that I think it does not need to be expanded upon: I'll just keep what is necessary for the reader to understand what I'm talking about. 

(edited your brief reply to give an example)

Holden

Quote from: Herman on March 20, 2010, 12:54:36 AM
The only problem with Pollini's DG Etudes and Preludes is there is no music there.

As I'm writing this the 10/1 link you posted is playing, and it is completely bereft of any nuance. This piece can be played in such a way that it becomes a beautiful opening of a enchanting narrative. Pollini's just playing a ton of notes, with perfect control, indeed, but that's just typing.


I agree. As an example of pure bravura it is stunning but Gavrilov is even more impressive.

But if you want nuance in Op 10/1 combined with stunning technique it's hard to go past Anievas.
Cheers

Holden