Chopin Recordings

Started by George, April 06, 2007, 06:00:36 AM

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Mandryka

#720
Quote from: George on March 19, 2010, 08:45:28 PM
No matter, it's mostly his technical prowess that is impressive. Like here, where he's crystal clear and clean - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwHgeDPhkts

Check out Ashkenazy for a comparison - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpZr_cbYbXo

After hearing Ashy (who is regarded by many as being one of the very best in the Chopin etudes, as I am sure you know) one hears how Pollini has this in the palm of his hand.

Ashkenazy sounds to me as though he has an anger management problem -- but I can see there are nice things in it.

For nuance, Richter is outstanding. Just listen to that sadness which pervades the interpretation:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSKTG3ptpyU

And Cziffra plays it relatively monochromatic and uncharismatic. But this isn't aggressive and he makes it sound like real exciting music -- adventurous like a Liszt TE.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTwRyYIPmj4
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Herman

Speaking of Katsaris, there is this video of him playing the 3d sonata.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtYUaHm1fak

it's not just that the interpretation strikes me as overly fussy, I don't get the video either, with CK making faces at the camera and casting glances towards the audience, and weird camera pans. It's almost as if this is some kind of vanity video, with the audience pasted in, later.

mc ukrneal

Quote from: Mandryka on March 20, 2010, 10:51:43 PM
Ashkenazy sounds to me as though he has an anger management problem -- but I can see there are nice things in it.

For nuance, Richter is outstanding. Just listen to that sadness which pervades the interpretation:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSKTG3ptpyU

And Cziffra plays it relatively monochromatic and uncharismatic. But this isn't aggressive and he makes it sound like real exciting music -- adventurous like a Liszt TE.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTwRyYIPmj4

It's funny how we all hear different stuff in the same peformances. If I had to order those 4 performances in order of preference, I'd go:
1. Pollini
2. Ashkenazy
3. Richter
4. Cziffra

I had never heard any of these interpretations before so no bias in that sense. Pollini shaped the line better. I also felt it was smoothest on the top line. And I also felt like I was getting the nuances of the music more. The Ashkenazy and Richter were similar to my ears (wish the Richter had been in better sound, which may have hurt it).  If one is more interested in a more 'violent' version, then I could understand preferring one of the others.

I curently own two versions: Perahia and Ashkenazy. I prefer the Perahia (on Sony) hands down between them. Of course, once I had listened to all these versions, I had to go listen to Godowsky's Study on Chopin's Etudes (on which he has two studies for this one etude).
Be kind to your fellow posters!!

George

Quote from: Holden on March 20, 2010, 07:30:17 PM

I agree. As an example of pure bravura it is stunning but Gavrilov is even more impressive.

I'll have to listen to Gavrilov (and Anievas) again. To me, this prelude is mostly bravura, so I prefer an interpretation along those lines.

Coopmv

Quote from: George on March 21, 2010, 05:00:59 AM
I'll have to listen to Gavrilov (and Anievas) again. To me, this prelude is mostly bravura, so I prefer an interpretation along those lines.

I am tempted to give Vlado Perlemuter a try, though I know you are not too crazy about his Chopin playing ...

George

Quote from: Coopmv on March 21, 2010, 05:05:14 AM
I am tempted to give Vlado Perlemuter a try, though I know you are not too crazy about his Chopin playing ...

I have never heard his Chopin.

George

Quote from: Holden on March 20, 2010, 07:30:17 PM
I agree. As an example of pure bravura it is stunning but Gavrilov is even more impressive.

I agree. Side by side, it's no contest. Gavrilov sounds big, bold and confident. And more musical than Pollini. He makes this prelude sound like a Rachmaninoff prelude. 

QuoteBut if you want nuance in Op 10/1 combined with stunning technique it's hard to go past Anievas.

I just listened to him for the second time and I can't say I like it. It's weird because I love his Rachmaninoff preludes, so I assumed that I'd love his Chopin.   

zamyrabyrd

Quote from: Mandryka on February 07, 2010, 07:13:50 AM
I don't know a better modern reading of the Mazurkas...
I'm into those Mazurkas big time.

Yes, indeed, Samson François is the man for the Mazurkas! My recording has the Sonatas 2&3 as well, what a bargain!!! Rachmaninoff used to play Chopin's second sonata with great success.

For those who may be jaded by Chopin Waltzes, Geza Anda's interpretation (in the first set of the Great Pianists of the 20th century) is quite a revelation. He gets more music from them that quite a few often miss.

Also, I liked very much Askenazy's recording of the Polonaises that includes quite a few early compositions and later ones that don't appear in most anthologies.

ZB (right now breaking my head & fingers over the 2nd Impromptu...found this in the meantime, the eccentric, but lovable Vladimir de Pachmann:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3WuBOtCsYs )
"Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, one by one."

― Charles MacKay, Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds

zamyrabyrd

Quote from: Herman on March 21, 2010, 01:03:13 AM
Speaking of Katsaris, there is this video of him playing the 3d sonata.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtYUaHm1fak
it's not just that the interpretation strikes me as overly fussy, I don't get the video either, with CK making faces at the camera and casting glances towards the audience, and weird camera pans. It's almost as if this is some kind of vanity video, with the audience pasted in, later.

Ditto, completely agree. A friend of mine a while ago suggested I see this "fantastic pianist". After viewing the above, I was definitely turned off. I searched out the Lipatti recording just to clean out my ears.
ZB
"Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, one by one."

― Charles MacKay, Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds

Mandryka

#729
Quote from: zamyrabyrd on March 21, 2010, 10:40:03 AM
Ditto, completely agree. A friend of mine a while ago suggested I see this "fantastic pianist". After viewing the above, I was definitely turned off. I searched out the Lipatti recording just to clean out my ears.
ZB

Completely disagree.

I rather like the sonata performance. Whenever he does something personal it always sounds musical and intelligent.

I don't much care for the Lipatti recording of it. If I wanted to hear this sonata I would probably go for Gilels. Or Pletnev.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Herman

I know it's supposed to be irrelevant, but the way Katsaris seems to be communicating he's just having fun with the op 58 is quite as unsettling as his weird accents.

To me the B minor is the ultimate heroic sonata, about beauty and suffering, and to see Katsaris almost winking at the camera or the audience in the finale  -  hey I can do this and have fun too!  -  is so wrong.

Perhaps if I just heard the audio it would be different.

Drasko

Quote from: Herman on March 21, 2010, 01:03:13 AM
Speaking of Katsaris, there is this video of him playing the 3d sonata.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtYUaHm1fak

it's not just that the interpretation strikes me as overly fussy, I don't get the video either, with CK making faces at the camera and casting glances towards the audience, and weird camera pans. It's almost as if this is some kind of vanity video, with the audience pasted in, later.

Don't know if it is pasted but do know that he does all those antics in perfectly normal live performance as well. Glancing and smiling at the audience, raising and waving his hands, looking at the ceiling, conducting something with one hand while playing with the other ...

But his playing is as bizarre (in Chopin at least). I listened to some Scherzi on radio and he played them in such exaggerated contrapuntal manner that I couldn't tell anymore what is melody, what is accompaniment and with all voices given same importance sounded like utter mess.
Now, making some unexpected accent here or there, bringing some details to foreground over which everybody else glosses over or giving more prominence to accompaniment can result in truly memorable performances, even revelatory: Sofronitsky's Schubert or Natan Brand's Kreisleriana or Kemal Gekic's Chopin Etudes, but Katsaris is going into extremes and result is mostly grotesque in my opinion.   

Bulldog

I've always found Katsaris a very interesting and unique pianist.  I have a Sony disc of him playing the Op. 28 Preludes that's out of this world - a must have as far as I'm concerned.

Holden

Quote from: George on March 21, 2010, 05:15:47 AM
I agree. Side by side, it's no contest. Gavrilov sounds big, bold and confident. And more musical than Pollini. He makes this prelude sound like a Rachmaninoff prelude. 

I just listened to him for the second time and I can't say I like it. It's weird because I love his Rachmaninoff preludes, so I assumed that I'd love his Chopin.

now I've never heard his Rachmaninov - can you upload samples of Op 23/5 and op 32/10 for me so I can listen? After Richter it's very hard to listen to someone else play Rachmaninov.
Cheers

Holden

George

Quote from: Bulldog on March 21, 2010, 01:14:03 PM
I've always found Katsaris a very interesting and unique pianist.  I have a Sony disc of him playing the Op. 28 Preludes that's out of this world - a must have as far as I'm concerned.

I just grabbed the last reasonably priced copy from amazon! Thanks for the tip!  :)

George

Quote from: Holden on March 21, 2010, 01:30:48 PM
now I've never heard his Rachmaninov - can you upload samples of Op 23/5 and op 32/10 for me so I can listen? After Richter it's very hard to listen to someone else play Rachmaninov.

Sure!

Opus 23/5

Opus 32/10

after clicking on the link, just click the triangle at the bottom left to listen. Or right click on the link and choose save as to download the prelude.

Herman

Quote from: Bulldog on March 21, 2010, 01:14:03 PM
I've always found Katsaris a very interesting and unique pianist.  I have a Sony disc of him playing the Op. 28 Preludes that's out of this world - a must have as far as I'm concerned.

If this is not a parody I don't get it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYY47zdi8So&feature=related

Scarpia

Quote from: Herman on March 21, 2010, 02:04:25 PM
If this is not a parody I don't get it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYY47zdi8So&feature=related

He is an odd, quirky guy.  I don't see how that excludes him being a talented pianist.

Herman

Quote from: Scarpia on March 21, 2010, 02:08:57 PM
He is an odd, quirky guy.  I don't see how that excludes him being a talented pianist.

since no one said he had no talent, that's not a question you need to ponder.

The question is more: is this the kind of Chopin playing you're looking for?

This is the kind of performing that (to me) is only about talent. That's ok when you're sicteen, but not when you're sixty.

kishnevi

Quote from: George on March 21, 2010, 05:15:47 AM
I agree. Side by side, it's no contest. Gavrilov sounds big, bold and confident. And more musical than Pollini. He makes this prelude sound like a Rachmaninoff prelude. 

That's a bit confusing.    Do you think Gavrilov or Pollini "makes it sound like a Rachmaninoff prelude"?

To me, I'd rather not have a pianist make a Chopin prelude come out like a Rachmaninoff prelude.  I want to hear Chopin.  If I wanted to hear a Rachmaninoff prelude, I'd put on Rachmaninoff preludes.    And vice versa, of course.  (To make it clear, I'm not being negative about R., only being negative about playing music by other composers as if it was music by R.)