Chopin Recordings

Started by George, April 06, 2007, 06:00:36 AM

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Mandryka

Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Verena

QuoteSorry  (I made the post early in the morning.)

It's on Classound -- here

Thanks!
Don't think, but look! (PI66)


cosmicj

FYI, there's one used version of that Classound CD on amazon (us) right now.  I'm very interested in hearing it after Mandryka's praise but won't order it just yet so it's yours if you want it.

ccar

#884
Quote from: Mandryka on June 09, 2010, 09:33:56 PM
I can't recommend this recording too enthusiastically.

It comes from a period when Sofronitsky's Chopin  style was rather austere. But the drama of the music making is unbelievable.

The mazurka set seems to me to be a real summit of Chopin playing. Same for the Waltzes.

Sound quality is excellent by anyones's standards.
Being a long time fan of Sofronitsky and collecting most of his recordings, I still remember how difficult it was to get them outside Russia.  Nowadays, Sofronitsky is widely regarded as one of the major piano interpreters of the last century and we are fortunate to have many of his recordings more easily available.  But with the profusion of editions and deficient information on the recording sources it is also more challenging to avoid overlaps.

The Sofronitsky Classound Chopin CD includes:

1. Polonaise in C sharp minor, op. 26 No. 1
2. Nocturne op. 27 No. 1 in C sharp minor
3. Nocturne op. 27 No. 2 in D flat major
4. Impromptu No. 4 in G flat major, op. 51
5. Barcarole in F sharp major, op. 60
6. Waltz in A flat major, op. 69 No. 1
7. Waltz in F minor, op. 70 No. 2
8. Waltz in D flat major, op. 70 No.3

Mazurkas
9. in C sharp minor, op. 41 No. 1
10. in E minor, op. 41 No. 2
11. in F minor, op. 63 No. 2
12. in C major, op. 33 No. 3
13. in B minor, op. 33 No. 4
14. in F minor, op. 68 No. 4
15. in B minor, op. 30 No. 2
16. in D flat major, op. 30 No. 3
17. in C sharp minor, op. 30 No. 4
18. in C sharp minor, op. 50 No. 3

I suspect all these pieces have been previously released in other labels (Brilliant, Philips, Vista Vera, Arlecchino, Denon, ...). If the reference to 1961 as the date of some Classound tracks is true it could only mean the very last Sofronitsky's recital in January 1961, but I never saw any mention to any Chopin being recorded on this date ??  Does anyone in the forum has some better information on this? 



Mandryka

Where did you get the idea that it's from 1961? (Did I say that somewhere?!) I think it is from 1960.

I investigated a bit before I bought the CD and as far as I can see the Mazurkas and Waltzes are no where else. The Barcarole may well be.

The booklet which comes with the CD isn't helpful to me as it's in Russian.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

ccar

Quote from: Mandryka on June 13, 2010, 09:47:33 PM
Where did you get the idea that it's from 1961? (Did I say that somewhere?!) I think it is from 1960.

I investigated a bit before I bought the CD and as far as I can see the Mazurkas and Waltzes are no where else. The Barcarole may well be.

The booklet which comes with the CD isn't helpful to me as it's in Russian.

The possibility of a different source for the Classound Mazurkas is referred in the "Mazurka project" site. http://mazurka.org.uk/info/discography/. But the 1961 date must be wrong ! 
I didn't had the time to do a comparative track by track audition but the Classound programme, particularly with the same Mazurkas selection, is most probably from the January-February 1960 studio recordings. Assuming the 1960 source all this pieces were already included in other Sofronitsky editions, particularly in the Philips GPOC (in the GPOC the Chopin disc has exactly the same programme as the Classound). Most of the pieces from the 1960 sessions were also already included in the Denon (83673-4) and the Arlecchino (ARL41) series. 


Mandryka

Quote from: ccar on June 14, 2010, 01:26:53 PM
The possibility of a different source for the Classound Mazurkas is referred in the "Mazurka project" site. http://mazurka.org.uk/info/discography/. But the 1961 date must be wrong ! 
I didn't had the time to do a comparative track by track audition but the Classound programme, particularly with the same Mazurkas selection, is most probably from the January-February 1960 studio recordings. Assuming the 1960 source all this pieces were already included in other Sofronitsky editions, particularly in the Philips GPOC (in the GPOC the Chopin disc has exactly the same programme as the Classound). Most of the pieces from the 1960 sessions were also already included in the Denon (83673-4) and the Arlecchino (ARL41) series. 



I suspect that the mazurkas are the same as the ones in his GPE -- better sound on Classound.

I just tried to compare Op 44/1 -- GPE and Classound. they are certainly very similar.

What do you think of the Barcarolle on Classound? Do you prefer it to the 1949 live Barcarolle?
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

ccar

Quote from: Mandryka on June 14, 2010, 09:23:06 PM
What do you think of the Barcarolle on Classound? Do you prefer it to the 1949 live Barcarolle?

In my view, the studio 1960 has much better sound and is a more polished reading, with magnificent phrasing, colors and many wonderful details. But in the 1949 recital the sheer drive is astonishing - don't mind the sound, forget the notes and  just let you be carried in an almost hallucinatory dream.

         

Mandryka

#889
Quote from: ccar on June 15, 2010, 04:15:05 PM
In my view, the studio 1960 has much better sound and is a more polished reading, with magnificent phrasing, colors and many wonderful details. But in the 1949 recital the sheer drive is astonishing - don't mind the sound, forget the notes and  just let you be carried in an almost hallucinatory dream.

       

I agree completely. That 1949 Barcarolle is very special, unique, for intensity of feeling and technique.


Everything about Sofronitsky's Chopin seems to be unique, and I can imagine some listeners are offended by his style -- either in 49 or in 60.

All I can say is that people who want ravishing beauty and a  singing line should go elsewhere. It's as if Sofronitsky was deliberately avoiding anything so naively seductive.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

ccar

It is not easy to match the combination of intensity and poetic phrasing of Sofronitsky in the Barcarolle.

Some performances are very beautiful, but many may lack the kind of mediterranean folly I imagine in this piece.   

But listening to Dino Ciani's progression until the final coda, we may feel we are again carried in a swift gondola ride.



There are (AFAIK) 2 live recordings of the Barcarolle by Dino Ciani - November 1971 Firenze (STR10016) and December 1971 Roma (DG 457102-2 / AG 232.2). The last one has better sound.   
   

Mandryka

#891
Yes – I have a Ciani's DG Barcarolle – I like Ciani's Chopin  a lot. Somehow the nocturnes are very alive, fresh, awake.

Do you know Moiseiwitsch's 1939 Barcarolle?  If not, do try it. It's very good. Rather  better than his well known 41 one.

http://www.mediafire.com/?3wghznzdmk0

There are lots of other Barcarolles I like – Richter's one from  Salzburg on Orfeo  is surfused with melancholy. Also Pletnev's/ which is extremely spacious and Schumannesque (when I hear it I always think of the Schumann Fantasie.)
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Drasko

Quote from: Mandryka on July 03, 2010, 12:09:54 PM
Do you know Moiseiwitsch's 1939 Barcarolle?  If not, do try it. It's very good. Rather  better than his well known 41 one.

http://www.mediafire.com/?3wghznzdmk0

Thanks for this! Moiseiwitsch was always superb in Barcarolle. I like very much even later one from mid 50s.

ccar

Quote from: Mandryka on July 03, 2010, 12:09:54 PM
Do you know Moiseiwitsch's 1939 Barcarolle?  If not, do try it. It's very good. Rather  better than his well known 41 one.
The Naxos "Moiseiwitsch edition" - vol 13 - includes the 1939 and 1941 Barcarolle. And I think I may understand your preference. For me the 1939 is much more intimate, more poised, with exquisite details of the phrasing and colors. Benno gives the Barcarolle an extraordinary "inner" tension, without the more usual "outer" effects on volume or dynamics. And apart from the studio 1939 and 1941, there is also a very good (studio 1958 ?) GPOC Barcarolle.

But I confess I am always fascinated by the "wild" Benno Moiseiwitsch. And his live Barcarolle, included in the Pearl collection of recitals, is a completely different experience. He carries the "Barcarolle" on fire. Perhaps closer to the 1949 Sofronitsly we both commented before.   


               

Drasko

Quote from: ccar on July 04, 2010, 05:57:49 AM
... there is also a very good (studio 1958 ?) GPOC Barcarolle.

19th February 1956. Moiseiwitsch GPOC volume is messy with dates.

ccar

Quote from: Drasko on July 04, 2010, 08:45:44 AM
19th February 1956. Moiseiwitsch GPOC volume is messy with dates.

Thanks Drasko. You're quite right.

You prompted me to check the rest of the BM GPOC Chopin programme and other dates may also be wrong.
According to Bryan Crimp's BM discography the correct dates should be:

      - 19 Feb 1956 - Barcarolle, Nocturne Op.62, Ballade No.4,
      - 19 & 21 Dec 1958 - Ballade No.3, Fantasie-Impromptu, Scherzo No.4, Nocturne Op.37, Scherzo No.2.   

   

George

#896
Quote from: Mandryka on June 10, 2010, 07:07:49 AM
Sorry  (I made the post early in the morning.)

It's on Classound -- here

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/SOFRONITSKY-Chopin-Polon-Waltzes-Mazurkas-CD-RUS-NEW-/350360652997?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Music_CDs&hash=item51931f4cc5

Thanks very much for this recommendation. My copy arrived yesterday and I am enjoying it!  :)

Mandryka

Quote from: George on July 07, 2010, 04:48:46 PM
Thanks very much for this recommendation. My copy arrived yesterday and I am enjoying it!  :)

I'm pleased because I know that you haven't enjoyed VVS so much before.

I suspect that the Brilliant box, Scriabin apart, doesn't show him at his best.

If you find yourself getting interested in him, try his Symphonic Etudes.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Clever Hans

#898
Quote from: Mandryka on July 08, 2010, 11:02:26 AM
I'm pleased because I know that you haven't enjoyed VVS so much before.

I suspect that the Brilliant box, Scriabin apart, doesn't show him at his best.

If you find yourself getting interested in him, try his Symphonic Etudes.

But the Brilliant set also has his other most famous performance of Chopin's Mazurkas ('49) and then the Preludes ('51, date correct? but same recording except clearer transfers as classound 001-024, MVT032), plus some Waltzes. Aside from the recording technology itself and the not very warm transfers, they sound pretty amazing to me, anyway.

Mandryka

#899
I haven't got the set, but I know three people, all quite sophisticated listeners, who say"I have the Brilliant VVS set and I don't like VVS".

I also saw that my favourite recordings -- the Symphonic Etudes, Schubert Impromptus, Beethoven 111 and Pastoral, 1949 Chopin Op 28,  1951 Schumann Op 17, Beethoven Op 57 from 1952 . . . aren't included.


The late mazurkas in the set -- are they the ones from 1949? If so, I think he surpassed himself in the studio recordings of Chopin mazurkas on Russian Piano School, and the ones on the Classound recording we have been discussing.



Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen