Chopin Recordings

Started by George, April 06, 2007, 06:00:36 AM

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Clever Hans

Quote from: Mandryka on July 08, 2010, 10:30:14 PM
I haven't got the set, but I know three people, all quite sophisticated listeners, who say"I have the Brilliant VVS set and I don't like VVS".

I also saw that my favourite recordings -- the Symphonic Etudes, Schubert Impromptus, Beethoven 111 and Pastoral, 1949 Chopin Op 28,  1951 Schumann Op 17, Beethoven Op 57 from 1952 . . . aren't included.


The late mazurkas in the set -- are they the ones from 1949? If so, I think he surpassed himself in the studio recordings of Chopin mazurkas on Russian Piano School, and the ones on the Classound recording we have been discussing.

Yes, the biggest lack is the '59 Symphonic Etudes on Classound and the '49 barcarolle. I will have to get the 1960 Mazurkas, then, if they are that good.

The op. 28, however, included in the brilliant set and dated 1951 is the same as in the vista vera release, dated 1949, and the Classound release (001-024, MVT032) with the yellow and gray cover. I only have the Denon Scriabin, unfortunately, so I cannot compare its Chopin "legendary" '49 Preludes with the others (must order it from Japan soon). I would guess the '49 Denon Chopin Preludes is the same also, and someone got the date wrong.   

In any case, I think the Brilliant set is fairly representative, although not the be-all and end-all. Still, probably best to get the individual Denon Scriabin and Chopin Releases and the classound Schumann. 

ccar

Quote from: Clever Hans on July 09, 2010, 06:34:10 AM

The op. 28, however, included in the brilliant set and dated 1951 is the same as in the vista vera release, dated 1949, and the Classound release (001-024, MVT032) with the yellow and gray cover. I only have the Denon Scriabin, unfortunately, so I cannot compare its Chopin "legendary" '49 Preludes with the others (must order it from Japan soon). I would guess the '49 Denon Chopin Preludes is the same also, and someone got the date wrong.   

In any case, I think the Brilliant set is fairly representative, although not the be-all and end-all. Still, probably best to get the individual Denon Scriabin and Chopin Releases and the classound Schumann.

Looking at my Sofronitsky's recordings of the Chopin Preludes, the live set (Op.28 Preludes No. 1-24) from the 21 Nov 1949 Chopin recital (Great Hall of The Moscow Conservatory – on Chopin's death centenary) is more easy to date.
There are other recordings of the Op.28 Preludes but these are much more difficult to confirm and date precisely:
                     - No. 1-23 - studio 1950 / 1953 (?)  - Arlecchino (ARL95)
                     - No.2 & No13 – 1946 (?);  No.1 – 1950 (?); No.12- 1951 (?) -  Denon (83672)

On comparative timings and listening the Brilliant "edition" , Vista Vera (00118), Denon (83968) and Classound (032) they all included the same live 1949 set. If sound is an issue I would prefer the Denon and would reject the Classound (for me the sound is too filtered and compacted).   

I also relistened my Arlecchino CD and the sound is quite good, suggesting it could indeed be a studio recording. The timings for each prelude are different from the 1949 set and comparing the C minor prelude on all my "editions" the Arlecchino and the "alternative" Denon 1946(?) are indeed different from the 1949. Contrary to what we may expect the Arlecchino (studio?) is quite interesting and probably with a  more free rubato compared to the live 1949.

    

Mandryka

Quote from: ccar on July 09, 2010, 09:09:18 AM
Looking at my Sofronitsky's recordings of the Chopin Preludes, the live set (Op.28 Preludes No. 1-24) from the 21 Nov 1949 Chopin recital (Great Hall of The Moscow Conservatory – on Chopin's death centenary) is more easy to date.
There are other recordings of the Op.28 Preludes but these are much more difficult to confirm and date precisely:
                     - No. 1-23 - studio 1950 / 1953 (?)  - Arlecchino (ARL95)
                     - No.2 & No13 – 1946 (?);  No.1 – 1950 (?); No.12- 1951 (?) -  Denon (83672)

On comparative timings and listening the Brilliant "edition" , Vista Vera (00118), Denon (83968) and Classound (032) they all included the same live 1949 set. If sound is an issue I would prefer the Denon and would reject the Classound (for me the sound is too filtered and compacted).   

I also relistened my Arlecchino CD and the sound is quite good, suggesting it could indeed be a studio recording. The timings for each prelude are different from the 1949 set and comparing the C minor prelude on all my "editions" the Arlecchino and the "alternative" Denon 1946(?) are indeed different from the 1949. Contrary to what we may expect the Arlecchino (studio?) is quite interesting and probably with a  more free rubato compared to the live 1949.

   

On reflection I think you're right -- the preludes om Brilliant are from the 1949 concerts. My bad.

It would be great if someone would put together a VVS discography.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Maciek

Quote from: Brian on March 30, 2010, 08:24:40 PM
Cross-posting: I will always, always associate the nocturne in C sharp minor (my favorite of all the nocturnes) with Wladyslaw Szpilman, aka "The Pianist"; it was the work which quite literally saved his life in the Warsaw Ghetto when he played it to a German officer who had discovered his hiding place.

Sorry, haven't been to this thread in a long while so this is a late reaction. PLUS it's a completely minor quibble not related to the thread topic. BUT I just can't stop myself:

At the point when Szpilman was found by the German officer the Warsaw Ghetto no longer existed - most of its remaining inhabitants had been expelled (to death camps) or killed in 1943. It also no longer existed in a "physical" sense. Well, as a matter of fact, since this was both after the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising (1943) and the Warsaw Uprising (1944), most of Warsaw no longer existed - most buildings had been burned/destroyed. Anyway, what I wanted to say is that Szpilman was at that point hiding in the burned down ruins of a house somewhere on al. Niepodległości, quite a long way from the (then already former) ghetto.

Thank you for your attention, carry on.

rubio

#904
Anybody know these two women and their Chopin?

First Jeanne-Marie Darre and her set of preludes. I have seen it highly praised somewhere (by quite reliable Amazon reviewer Hiram Gomez Pardo).



And then Guiomar Novaes and her set of Nocturnes on Vox. Some has commented on bad sound.

"One good thing about music, when it hits- you feel no pain" Bob Marley

Bulldog

Quote from: rubio on July 14, 2010, 09:31:03 AM
Anybody know these two women and their Chopin?

First Jeanne-Marie Darre and her set of preludes. I have seen it highly praised somewhere (by quite reliable Amazon reviewer Hiram Gomez Pardo).



I've had the Darre Preludes for a few years, and they are certainly excellent.  However, I do find her a little lacking in passion and intensity.  Sound quality is good for the time period, although a bit bass-heavy.

George

Quote from: rubio on July 14, 2010, 09:31:03 AM
Anybody know these two women and their Chopin?

First Jeanne-Marie Darre and her set of preludes. I have seen it highly praised somewhere (by quite reliable Amazon reviewer Hiram Gomez Pardo).



I had picked this one up, but hadn't heard it yet. So I popped it in and will report back.

rubio

Quote from: George on July 14, 2010, 12:49:37 PM
I had picked this one up, but hadn't heard it yet. So I popped it in and will report back.

Looking forward to hear your comments, George! And thank you for the feeback, Bulldog.
"One good thing about music, when it hits- you feel no pain" Bob Marley

George

Quote from: rubio on July 15, 2010, 09:48:56 AM
Looking forward to hear your comments, George! And thank you for the feeback, Bulldog.

I agree with Bulldog. Not one of the best preludes, but one of the better ones. Worth the $3.99 that mine cost me.

rubio

Quote from: George on July 15, 2010, 10:46:03 AM
I agree with Bulldog. Not one of the best preludes, but one of the better ones. Worth the $3.99 that mine cost me.

Thanks!
"One good thing about music, when it hits- you feel no pain" Bob Marley

George

Quote from: rubio on July 15, 2010, 10:59:03 AM
Thanks!

For the Preludes, I'd say get the Sokolov, download the Fiorentino (google is your friend) check out Barto and of course grab one of the earlier Cortot's, the 1926 or the 1933. 

Mandryka

#911
Quote from: George on July 15, 2010, 11:40:49 AM
For the Preludes, I'd say get the Sokolov, download the Fiorentino (google is your friend) check out Barto and of course grab one of the earlier Cortot's, the 1926 or the 1933.

In fact, since I had a binge of listening to Op 28s earlier this year, I've  come to appreciate Gilels's preludes considerably more than Sokolov's or even Fiorentino's

I'm enjoying Gilels in Chopin a  lot right now. most of all in the 3rd sonata. All the recordings I have heard of this music from him are excellent. Maybe the one I enjoy the most is from a 1977 recital, at the Moscow Conservatoire.

And then there are the Op 28 Preludes. Fiorentino's. recording is astounding in some of the preludes (I'm still astonished by how he takes Op 28/2 for example.) But Gilels is, for me, more satisfying I think.  The reasons: the unforced naturelness of the music making, the intensity of the concentration, the seriousness, the authentic candour of the expression, the huge glowing sonority. 

Sokolov is not for me.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Coopmv

Quote from: Mandryka on July 15, 2010, 11:01:09 PM
In fact, since I had a binge of listening to Op 28s earlier this year, I've  come to appreciate Gilels's preludes considerably more than Sokolov's or even Fiorentino's

I'm enjoying Gilels in Chopin a  lot right now. most of all in the 3rd sonata. All the recordings I have heard of this music from him are excellent. Maybe the one I enjoy the most is from a 1977 recital, at the Moscow Conservatoire.

And then there are the Op 28 Preludes. Fiorentino's. recording is astounding in some of the preludes (I'm still astonished by how he takes Op 28/2 for example.) But Gilels is, for me, more satisfying I think.  The reasons: the unforced naturelness of the music making, the intensity of the concentration, the seriousness, the authentic candour of the expression, the huge glowing sonority. 

Sokolov is not for me.

What is wrong with Sokolov?

Mandryka

Quote from: Coopmv on July 20, 2010, 06:12:18 PM
What is wrong with Sokolov?



Thinking of particular preludes, Sokolov takes 17 so slowly  he  sounds stuck. And I hate Sokolov's pointless crashing chords at 1.30 and 2.20. Richter by comparison is faster, more alive, more lyrical in this. And Cortot much much much better.

I think generally Sokolov really comes a cropper  in the calmer, more gentle preludes.  I think Prelude 13 is a particularly awful low point.

More generally he's too slow in the slow ones for me. I lose attention! And there's not enough variety of mood -- it's all rather sombre.

Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

George



New Chopin release, due out September 14, 2010. amazon link

More Info Here - http://www.arbiterrecords.com/

Still waiting impatiently for Marston's Chopin release too.  :-[

George


Dancing Divertimentian

Quote from: Dancing Divertimentian on August 11, 2010, 10:35:14 PM
Chopin Ballades 1 & 2. Masterful interpretations by Gavrilov, in warm, pearly sound (unlike the fuzzy sonics given poor Pollini on the same label).





Quote from: George on August 12, 2010, 05:07:46 AM
I wonder how those compare to the ones he did for EMI? (hint, hint)  :)

I figured I'd answer you here George since the mods might move our discussion anyway. :) 

This DG recording comes later in Gavrilov's career but I couldn't say how it compares to his earlier EMI Ballades disc since I haven't heard it.

Although I DO have Gavrilov's EMI disc of the Etudes and based on that I figured I'd pull the trigger on this DG disc, seeing as he has the requisite poetry I admire in the Etudes, though not forgetting the necessary fire and angularity that catapults Chopin into the visionary and out of the salon.

The Ballades however are of a completely different temperament than the Etudes and I wondered if Gavrilov would adjust to meet the music's requirements, but as it stands, he does. Admirably.

The poetry just oozes off the page in his renditions but not of the sappy, sentimental kind. It's a poetry drawn straight from the inner fantasy that Chopin concocts so meticulously in his music and practically demands be entered into and navigated to the fullest else the music suffers.

Gavrilov jumps right in and makes the most of what he encounters and I had a MOST enjoyable time listening to these renditions.

Sadly this disc is long OOP (probably only IN print for a mere five seconds) but to my ears fully deserves NEVER to have been allowed to go out of print at all.

First of all, as I mentioned, the sonics on this disc deserve the highest acclaim, being rich, pearly, and warm. Sadly, as I compared this disc to the Pollini disc of Ballades I nearly fainted as a disc recorded seven years later than the Gavrilov suffered from scratchy, fuzzy sonics and did zero justice to what sounds to me like committed performances by Pollini.

But as Gavrilov's playing is of the visionary kind AND has committed sonics I see no reason whatsoever to bury this disc in DG's OOP vault. Criminal.
Veit Bach-a baker who found his greatest pleasure in a little cittern which he took with him even into the mill and played while the grinding was going on. In this way he had a chance to have the rhythm drilled into him. And this was the beginning of a musical inclination in his descendants. JS Bach

George

Thanks for your thoughtful and informative response, Don.   :)

Verena

QuoteI figured I'd answer you here George since the mods might move our discussion anyway. :)

This DG recording comes later in Gavrilov's career but I couldn't say how it compares to his earlier EMI Ballades disc since I haven't heard it.

Although I DO have Gavrilov's EMI disc of the Etudes and based on that I figured I'd pull the trigger on this DG disc, seeing as he has the requisite poetry I admire in the Etudes, though not forgetting the necessary fire and angularity that catapults Chopin into the visionary and out of the salon.

The Ballades however are of a completely different temperament than the Etudes and I wondered if Gavrilov would adjust to meet the music's requirements, but as it stands, he does. Admirably.

The poetry just oozes off the page in his renditions but not of the sappy, sentimental kind. It's a poetry drawn straight from the inner fantasy that Chopin concocts so meticulously in his music and practically demands be entered into and navigated to the fullest else the music suffers.

Gavrilov jumps right in and makes the most of what he encounters and I had a MOST enjoyable time listening to these renditions.

Sadly this disc is long OOP (probably only IN print for a mere five seconds) but to my ears fully deserves NEVER to have been allowed to go out of print at all.

First of all, as I mentioned, the sonics on this disc deserve the highest acclaim, being rich, pearly, and warm. Sadly, as I compared this disc to the Pollini disc of Ballades I nearly fainted as a disc recorded seven years later than the Gavrilov suffered from scratchy, fuzzy sonics and did zero justice to what sounds to me like committed performances by Pollini.

But as Gavrilov's playing is of the visionary kind AND has committed sonics I see no reason whatsoever to bury this disc in DG's OOP vault. Criminal.

Thanks. Bought!  8) (amazon marketplace is a good thing  ::)
Don't think, but look! (PI66)

George

Quote from: Dancing Divertimentian on August 12, 2010, 10:19:55 AM
This DG recording comes later in Gavrilov's career but I couldn't say how it compares to his earlier EMI Ballades disc since I haven't heard it.

The EMI has the  exact same program. Maybe they are the same recordings? Mine was from 1985 and is marked DDD.

Here's the timings on my EMI CD -

Piano Sonata
6:45
6:19
8:43
1:05

Ballades
8:47
7:08
6:52
10:16