Chopin Recordings

[Holden]

I like Rubinstein in the specifically Polish and political music -- Polonaises and mazurkas.

Pletnev and Cortot have found a way of playing some of the other music which gives it tremendous psychological depth -- I'm thinking of Pletnev in the Barcarolle and Cortot in Op. 27/ 1.  After them, Rubinstein won't do for me: he's too straight.

Your Amsterdam Sokolov is Op 28 -- right?

Actually, it isn't and I am at work at the moment so I can't give the details. This was a CD sent to me without cover or booklet notation, just the list of works on the front and a recording date and venue. I'll check it out when I get home. It's a recital I listen to often which is why I am sure it's Amsterdam though maybe my memory is playing tricks on me. I remember that the recital started witha stunning version of Op66 and just carried on from there.

[Drasko]

Actually, it isn't and I am at work at the moment so I can't give the details. This was a CD sent to me without cover or booklet notation, just the list of works on the front and a recording date and venue. I'll check it out when I get home. It's a recital I listen to often which is why I am sure it's Amsterdam though maybe my memory is playing tricks on me. I remember that the recital started witha stunning version of Op66 and just carried on from there.

Then it is most likely 2005 recital, consisting of all four Impromptus, op.62 Nocturnes and Polonaise-fantasie.

... and this little beauty as an encore
http://www.youtube.com/v/YXhhYLMVMAc

[Mandryka]

Mandryka sums up this Pollini recording when he talks about simplicity, no attempt to add unnecessary colorations, extra rubato etc and this is in essence how Chopin probably played it himself (and anecdotal evidence does tend to back this up).

Raoul Koczalski  was taught by someone who was taught by Chopin and some people say he's the best indication we have of an authentic Chopin style. Here he is in the Double Thirds, Op 25/6

http://www.youtube.com/v/Vg_en2UvNHQ

And here's Pollini in 1976  for comparison

http://www.youtube.com/v/ir1LGur9LQs

One thing I want to say  is that on my Pearl recording of the Koczalski, played through good hi-fi, you can hear each voice very clearly. I felt that was obscured by the youtube sound on my computer.

For me it's interesting to compare them side by side because what I hear is that  Pollini declaims forcefully, while Koczalski  charms the birds off the trees.  It's like the difference between sprechgesang and bel canto.

In opera sprechgesang is very emotionally rich, diverse, humane and powerful.  More so than bel canto I would say, though bel canto is seductive.

[Holden]

The Pollini 1960 is far closer to the Koczalski recording where you can hear Pollini bringing out the left hand. That said, the Koczalski is simply delightful with simply being the operative word.

[George]

Mandryka sums up this Pollini recording when he talks about simplicity, no attempt to add unnecessary colorations, extra rubato etc and this is in essence how Chopin probably played it himself (and anecdotal evidence does tend to back this up).

The best single recording I've ever heard of Chopin is by a pianist we don't usually associate with romantic music - Solomon Cutner.

[asin]B000003XIC[/asin]

The Berceuse alone is an absolute masterpiece. Where the vast majority of pianists pull the tempo this way and that in an attempt to wring every single ounce of beauty out of this work, Solomon achieves this by playing it very steadily and letting his control of tonal palette make this work for him. I hear similar things with many parts of this new recording of the etudes - colour as opposed to bombast.

Yes, I heard this today. A serene, aristocratic Chopin for sure. I wish they hadn't filtered the sound so much, though. Even the GPOTC mastering of Berceuse has notably more high frequency info and overall sounds less muddy. I wonder if Beardsley did much better for the Pearl issue of most of this material?

[Mandryka]

The Pollini 1960 is far closer to the Koczalski recording where you can hear Pollini bringing out the left hand. That said, the Koczalski is simply delightful with simply being the operative word.

Yes but fundamentally, in terms of the rhetoric, it's worlds apart. You can hear just how audacious Pollini is.

It would be good to know what he's said or written about his approach to Chopin -- it must have taken enormous courage and clarity of vision  to play like that.

By the way, from post war OP 25/6s I love Richter and Cziffra play it, and maybe Pogorelich most of all

http://www.youtube.com/v/7Vx-m0V1lsY

[Mandryka]

Mandryka sums up this Pollini recording when he talks about simplicity, no attempt to add unnecessary colorations, extra rubato etc and this is in essence how Chopin probably played it himself (and anecdotal evidence does tend to back this up).

George Hogarth, a contemporary and friend of Sir Walter Scott, reviewed Chopin in concert saying  " This performer seemed to abandon himself to the impulses of his fancy and feeling, to indulge in a reverie and pour unconsciously, as it were, the thoughts and emotions that pass through his mind..."

[Mandryka]

In this interview Pollini seems to say that his influences are Rubinstein and Toscanini. And that he's restrained with rubato in Chopin because he wants to be "faithful to the composer"

http://rthktheworks.wordpress.com/2009/04/15/interview-pianist-maurizio-pollini/

Of course there may be a confusion between faithfulness to the composer and playing the written score -- but nevertheless the connection between de-romanticisation and HIP is interesting to me.

A propos, here's Pollini playing Ballade 4

[ http://www.youtube.com/v/xoNnDHj_CkA

Monochromatic, hard tone in the loud music, but the voicing is clear, the counterpoint very transparent. Shame we don't have some Mozart sonatas from Pollini. 

To  see how audacious Pollini's vision  is, just compare him with Hamelin in the same music. Hamelin is harldly the most romantic pianist, but  he is freer and more colourful than Pollini.

http://www.youtube.com/v/qd53eF_V_ZE

Above all for me Hamelin is more delicate. But the Hamelin performance is deadly dull I think. 

[Cascade]

Has anyone here heard Piano Concerto no.1 by Christopher Kite with The Hanover Band? Is it worth having?

I just orderd both piano concertos by Emanuel Ax with the OAE, which, judging from the samples sound very good. I also heard the recordings by Dang Thai Son with Frans Bruggen which are also quite good... but they're live recordings and come with audiance noise.

I think those three are the only recordings of the piano concertos on period instruments available, am I right?

[Mandryka]

Is this part of the 40 CD set George?

Yes.

What's in that set by way of waltzes?  I'm curious about whether Cziffra's set of Waltzes on EMI are really his best effort with this music.

[George]

What's in that set by way of waltzes?  I'm curious about whether Cziffra's set of Waltzes on EMI are really his best effort with this music.

Not sure. I don't actually have the big EMI set. I have the smaller Liszt and Chopin EMI boxes, though. There's 19 Waltzes in the EMI set I have.

[Bogey]

Rubinstein's earliest Chopin from the 30's......where do I find them on cd?  Links if you have 'em gents.

[Drasko]

Rubinstein's earliest Chopin from the 30's......where do I find them on cd?  Links if you have 'em gents.

5 CDs worth. EMI (Icon set is the latest guise) vs. RCA Rubinstein Collection vols 4 - 6 vs. Naxos (two double one single CD, lacking the concertos I think).

Haven't even remotely heard all of these, but as far as I know RCA is considered to be the best transfers.

[Bogey]

5 CDs worth. EMI (Icon set is the latest guise) vs. RCA Rubinstein Collection vols 4 - 6 vs. Naxos (two double one single CD, lacking the concertos I think).

Haven't even remotely heard all of these, but as far as I know RCA is considered to be the best transfers.

Thanks!  That EMI run looks easy....anyone else on the transfers?

[Mandryka]

Not sure. I don't actually have the big EMI set. I have the smaller Liszt and Chopin EMI boxes, though. There's 19 Waltzes in the EMI set I have.

He recorded 14 Walzes for Philips, and maybe some others live at Senlis and elsewhere.

Thanks!  That EMI run looks easy....anyone else on the transfers?

The naxos transfers of the Mazurkas, Nocturnes and Scherzos are fine. But I haven't heard the others.

[Bogey]

Found Q's take:

http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,21.120.html

[ccar]

What's in that set by way of waltzes?  I'm curious about whether Cziffra's set of Waltzes on EMI are really his best effort with this music.

He recorded 14 Walzes for Philips, and maybe some others live at Senlis and elsewhere.

The naxos transfers of the Mazurkas, Nocturnes and Scherzos are fine. But I haven't heard the others.

Not sure. I don't actually have the big EMI set. I have the smaller Liszt and Chopin EMI boxes, though. There's 19 Waltzes in the EMI set I have.

There are a number of studio and live recordings of the Waltzes by Cziffra. The Philips 1962 (1-14) and the EMI 1958/61/74/77/78 (1-19; also some isolated versions of Op.64 No.1 & 2) – these studio recordings were all included in the EMI-France 40CD edition. And there are also a few live recordings - Op.42, Op. 64 No.1 & 2, Op. post E minor - from recitals (1969/77/84) published by Aura and RCP.   

                                           
                                                           http://www.youtube.com/v/BAeestBW7j0

[George]

5 CDs worth. EMI (Icon set is the latest guise) vs. RCA Rubinstein Collection vols 4 - 6 vs. Naxos (two double one single CD, lacking the concertos I think).

Haven't even remotely heard all of these, but as far as I know RCA is considered to be the best transfers.

Yes, the OOP RCA Rubinstein collection masterings ae the best I have heard.

[Bogey]

Yes, the OOP RCA Rubinstein collection masterings ae the best I have heard.

I was hoping this was not the case.   So, for clarification, did he record ALL of Chopin in the 30's and what are the exact volumes I need to get.  I have Vol 2



but that is it.

[Mandryka]

You need to have the mazurkas. The nocturnes and scherzos aren't  so essential IMO.

But I haven't heard the first record of Polonaises. They could be good -- he was in his element in political Chopin.