Yearlong 'The Rest is Noise' Festival

[Karl Henning]

Anyway, I call it discussing, not arguing.

[Karl Henning]

Some people just want to post CD covers and be done with it.   

I'm here for you, buddy:

[asin]0312427719[/asin]

[Mirror Image]

James, have you actually seen the three-part television documentary heralding this festival? It is repeated time and time again that composers did horrible things in the mid-20th century, but thankfully in the 1970s audience-friendly music was being written again. The chosen commentators completely ignore the fact that the majority of the composers at the mid-century were writing tonal music (Britten and Shostakovich were not special, "uncompromising rebels" in this regard), as well as the fact that even in recent decades high modernist ideals continue to interest some composers and have their passionate following. Fans of all manner of classical music should be upset with this narrative.

False dilemma. Orchestras can program 20th-century music without trying to establish a narrative of "this music is the right stuff, that music lost its way". My local orchestras in Helsinki and elsewhere in the country manage to do that.

You asked above if I'd prefer seeing Schnittke's (K)ein Sommernachtstraum on a programme or Brahms, and at this point I would prefer the latter. There's a good case to be made that programming one or two works by a composer does not increase support for his output in general. Rather, it entrenches an orchestra's tendency to not take risks, and it can misrepresent a composer's aesthetic, which rests on his entire career, not just one or two pieces.

I feel sorry that you remain such a negative person about all of this, Chris. I mean one work by Schnittke or Kurtag getting performed is better than no works wouldn't you agree? I think what you're failing to address is that people need some kind of exposure to 20th Century music. If they hear a piece they like then there's a possibility it will cause the listener the explore more of a composer's oeuvre and read about them.

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

The general approach used in higher learning is being mindful of the presence of bias, read multiple books and synthesize the information by comparing and contrasting between them one can separate fact from opinion, and then form your own opinion based on the evidence.

The voice of common sense. There seems to be an assumption here that Alex Ross has somehow been commissioned to write THE book on 20th-century music, and that it's the only book on that subject currently existing in the universe, when in fact there are plenty of books on this subject, and Ross has merely written his own personal take on it.

If Ross' book manages to hook some people on modern music and get them exploring, then it will have done its job.

[Karl Henning]

If Ross' book manages to hook some people on modern music and get them exploring, then it will have done its job.

And if Rowling's books manage to cultivate a reading habit in more youngsters, then her work is immune from intelligent criticism, too.  I don't see how the opposition's viewpoint here is other than common sense, so if someone can draw me a diagram, I shall be grateful.

[Karl Henning]

And for the record, yes, I understand that this is the Internet, and there is the temptation to equate the post I agree with as the voice of common sense.  Call me uncommonly sensitive, perhaps, but it's a discussion in which more than one point of view can be to some degree correct.

[Karl Henning]

And for the record, yes, I understand that this is the Internet, and there is the temptation to equate the post I agree with as the voice of common sense.  Call me uncommonly sensitive, perhaps, but it's a discussion in which more than one point of view can be to some degree correct.

Oh! Perhaps I've argued after all for the benefits of neutrality . . . .

[AnthonyAthletic]

Given the choice I'd like to hear more 20th C & Avante music performed but being in the North of England its pretty limited unless you do have such festivals.  We do have many fine Orchestra's following the "same old but great" programming pattern and you seldom see 20th C music performed, most of the time I hear the Modern music scene as suppliments to Classical/Romantic/Early 20th Century music etc. 

Ok its a personal gripe but yeah it only seems to be London who performs these huge festivals which are in this instance dedicated.  London is 200+ miles away from my home and can I afford to go to a festival as such?, down in the good old South Bank?  Shame these festivals don't flip around this pork chop island of ours...its all London, London, London...

Location as ever prevents me from going, it would be too much of a chore to trot off to the capital to see this new music festival when it doesn't happen and is unlikely to happen on your own turf...and good old London will rape your wallet and credit card for the pleasure.

London, from which the English Football Team never sets foot, from where the Olympics can only be held, and why do Oxford and Cambridge always plough the same river...we have rivers up T'North you know.

[Opus106]

Given the choice I'd like to hear more 20th C & Avante music performed but being in the North of England its pretty limited unless you do have such festivals.  We do have many fine Orchestra's following the "same old but great" programming pattern and you seldom see 20th C music performed, most of the time I hear the Modern music scene as suppliments to Classical/Romantic/Early 20th Century music etc. 

Ok its a personal gripe but yeah it only seems to be London who performs these huge festivals which are in this instance dedicated.  London is 200+ miles away from my home and can I afford to go to a festival as such?, down in the good old South Bank?  Shame these festivals don't flip around this pork chop island of ours...its all London, London, London...

Location as ever prevents me from going, it would be too much of a chore to trot off to the capital to see this new music festival when it doesn't happen and is unlikely to happen on your own turf...and good old London will rape your wallet and credit card for the pleasure.

London, from which the English Football Team never sets foot, from where the Olympics can only be held, and why do Oxford and Cambridge always plough the same river...we have rivers up T'North you know.

Please await you turn, Tony, we aren't quite done with bashing Alex... for writing a book. Not until we fight off the totalitarian organisers for injecting falsities and half-truths into the minds of the gullible public. (Oh, the atrocities!)  I'm sorry, but you must satisfy yourself by listening to Brahms and Rachmaninoff until then.

[Karl Henning]

And if Rowling's books manage to cultivate a reading habit in more youngsters, then her work is immune from intelligent criticism, too.  I don't see how the opposition's viewpoint here is other than common sense, so if someone can draw me a diagram, I shall be grateful.

You're right, Nav. All I am doing here is bashing Alex.  Thanks for taking the time to draw me that diagram I requested.

[AnthonyAthletic]

Please await you turn, Tony, we aren't quite done with bashing Alex... for writing a book. Not until we fight off the totalitarian organisers for injecting falsities and half-truths into the minds of the gullible public. (Oh, the atrocities!)  I'm sorry, but you must satisfy yourself by listening to Brahms and Rachmaninoff until then.

Aye Nav, I will have to stick with a bit of Rachmaninov until I can afford to save up and pop down to this festival for all...one day, one day 

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

And if Rowling's books manage to cultivate a reading habit in more youngsters, then her work is immune from intelligent criticism, too.

Hmm, where did I imply that Ross' book is above criticism? Those who are criticizing it strongly are actually according it greater value than it has (IMHO of course) - unless I've missed something, it's not the semi-official Bible of modern music history, yet.

For the record, I've read it and think it's a mixed bag. Like all books where a single author tries to cover a large topic, it has its inadequacies.

[Opus106]

Right, we mustn't interrupt James's copying and pasting the festival proceedings.

He is interested enough to inform the rest of board, just as your copying and pasting of YouTube links brings new works to our attention. (Not as much snark as your post intended; I listen to a some of the videos occasionally. )

[North Star]

And if Rowling's books manage to cultivate a reading habit in more youngsters, then her work is immune from intelligent criticism, too.  I don't see how the opposition's viewpoint here is other than common sense, so if someone can draw me a diagram, I shall be grateful.

We're getting OT here...

[Karl Henning]

Hmm, where did I imply that Ross' book is above criticism?

I doubt you have, as you are reasonable chap.

For the record, I've read it and think it's a mixed bag. Like all books where a single author tries to cover a large topic, it has its inadequacies.

There's a statement I can agree with heartily.

[Opus106]

[snark]The difference being that I welcome a discussion whereas it seems as though you and others are trying to stifle one.[/snark]

I don't view beating of the dead "Ross'-book-and-hence-the-festival-is-limited-in-its-scope" horse as a discussion -- it's a given!

[Karl Henning]

There's always the scroll bar, Nav.

[Opus106]

There's always the scroll bar, Nav.

It seemed endless!

[Karl Henning]

I don't view beating of the dead "Ross'-book-and-hence-the-festival-is-limited-in-its-scope' horse as a discussion -- it's a given!

Well, different perspectives, and all that.  I find it of interest, given the accepted proof that the book is limited in its scope, to explore the nature of (and pitfalls attending) its limitations.

Not everything which I find of interest, will interest everyone else.  If anyone has a problem with that, honi soit qui mal y pense.

It seemed endless!

I guess you need a bigger scroll button.

[Karl Henning]

It is kind of you to consider my feelings, but I am pleased to report that this thread has not touched them