Witold Lutoslawski (1913-1994)

Started by Maciek, April 11, 2007, 02:44:42 PM

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Scion7

No.

" He had a fluent command of English – a language he had learned from his mother as a child, but which he only mastered as an adult. "

I remember news on the beeb back in the day - a light Polish accent.
When, a few months before his death, Rachmaninov lamented that he no longer had the "strength and fire" to compose, friends reminded him of the Symphonic Dances, so charged with fire and strength. "Yes," he admitted. "I don't know how that happened. That was probably my last flicker."

CRCulver

Quote from: vers la flamme on October 15, 2020, 02:54:15 AM
I always got the impression that those videos were dubbed. His English is just too perfect.

There are plenty of videos where Lutoslawski is speaking extemporaneously and the audio perfectly matches his mouth, so no, obviously not dubbed.

It is not particularly astonishing that Lutoslawski could learn English so well. The Eastern European elites who came of age in the entre deux guerres or before often learned French or German to the same high standard, and Lutoslawski came from an aristocratic family. My question was only about how he managed to immerse himself in an English environment for a time, because this wasn't covered in any of the biographies which I have seen.

vers la flamme

Quote from: CRCulver on October 15, 2020, 10:52:09 AM
There are plenty of videos where Lutoslawski is speaking extemporaneously and the audio perfectly matches his mouth, so no, obviously not dubbed.

It is not particularly astonishing that Lutoslawski could learn English so well. The Eastern European elites who came of age in the entre deux guerres or before often learned French or German to the same high standard, and Lutoslawski came from an aristocratic family. My question was only about how he managed to immerse himself in an English environment for a time, because this wasn't covered in any of the biographies which I have seen.

Yeah, I don't know. Just a suspicion I had after watching this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdDE5owPUMc

The fact that I couldn't really read his lips due to the low resolution of the video didn't help. I had the same question as you; I couldn't reconcile his speaking as if he were someone who was totally immersed in the language, with what I know of his biography.


Symphonic Addict

https://www.youtube.com/v/cXQ1fgmUIPY

I can't get enough of his Concerto for Orchestra. It encapsulates so much greatness, atmosphere and rich music. Gardner leading the hr-Sinfonieorchester succeeds at bringing all the personality this work has and offering a staggering rendition. One of my favorite works of the 20th century.
Part of the tragedy of the Palestinians is that they have essentially no international support for a good reason: they've no wealth, they've no power, so they've no rights.

Noam Chomsky

Mirror Image

Quote from: Symphonic Addict on August 29, 2021, 08:29:15 PM
https://www.youtube.com/v/cXQ1fgmUIPY

I can't get enough of his Concerto for Orchestra. It encapsulates so much greatness, atmosphere and rich music. Gardner leading the hr-Sinfonieorchester succeeds at bringing all the personality this work has and offering a staggering rendition. One of my favorite works of the 20th century.

It's a nice work even if the composer disliked it. How do you feel about Lutosławski's more mature works? Any favorites? I always said his song cycles were some of the finest of the later half of the 20th Century and I still feel this way. I'm coming around to his symphonies --- the 3rd and 4th are especially good.

Symphonic Addict

Quote from: Mirror Image on August 29, 2021, 08:36:03 PM
It's a nice work even if the composer disliked it. How do you feel about Lutosławski's more mature works? Any favorites? I always said his song cycles were some of the finest of the later half of the 20th Century and I still feel this way. I'm coming around to his symphonies --- the 3rd and 4th are especially good.

Well, Luto wasn't having a good day if he claimed that! For me it's an utterly sensational creation. Besides the CfO, Partita for violin and orchestra, the Double Concerto for oboe and harp, all the symphonies, Livre, Mi-Parti, the String Quartet, the Cello Concerto, Musique funèbre, Symphonic Variations (I think this is early), Paganini Variations (in both versions), Preludes and Fugue for 13 strings, Les Espaces du Sommeil and Jeux Vénitiens are rather close to my tastes.
Part of the tragedy of the Palestinians is that they have essentially no international support for a good reason: they've no wealth, they've no power, so they've no rights.

Noam Chomsky

Mirror Image

Quote from: Symphonic Addict on August 29, 2021, 09:01:58 PM
Well, Luto wasn't having a good day if he claimed that! For me it's an utterly sensational creation. Besides the CfO, Partita for violin and orchestra, the Double Concerto for oboe and harp, all the symphonies, Livre, Mi-Parti, the String Quartet, the Cello Concerto, Musique funèbre, Symphonic Variations (I think this is early), Paganini Variations (in both versions), Preludes and Fugue for 13 strings, Les Espaces du Sommeil and Jeux Vénitiens are rather close to my tastes.

All extremely fine works, indeed. Yeah, I think he was definitely wrong about his dismissal of this work for sure. It's fabulous.

Maestro267

Probably he dismissed it cos it's his most famous work, and artists are always doing that, hating the thing that, while making them the most money, stifles them creatively and in the minds of others, as if the CfO was the only work he wrote worth anything. Obviously those of us in the know know that's vastly untrue, but among the mainstream populace it's different.

vers la flamme

It's certainly the only Lutoslawski work I've seen in concert.

bhodges

In honor of the birthday boy, listening to the Concerto for Orchestra, just posted in December, with the Frankfurt Radio Symphony and conductor Krzysztof Urbański. So far, terrific.

Have to say, the Frankfurt ensemble (and their technicians) are doing a fantastic job with these live concerts. However one feels about the performances (most are excellent), the audio and video quality are superb.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7lwCIK7uENM

--Bruce

Mirror Image

Quote from: Brewski on January 25, 2022, 04:07:06 PM
In honor of the birthday boy, listening to the Concerto for Orchestra, just posted in December, with the Frankfurt Radio Symphony and conductor Krzysztof Urbański. So far, terrific.

Have to say, the Frankfurt ensemble (and their technicians) are doing a fantastic job with these live concerts. However one feels about the performances (most are excellent), the audio and video quality are superb.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7lwCIK7uENM

--Bruce

Very nice, Bruce. Lutosławski is one of my favorite composers. Such an incredible ear for sonorities. I still have to say his song cycles are his greatest contribution to music, but, of course, so much of his other music is superb. I'll have to give a listen to some of his music tomorrow (or, hopefully, some time soon). Any favorite works?

bhodges

Quote from: Mirror Image on January 25, 2022, 04:18:11 PM
Very nice, Bruce. Lutosławski is one of my favorite composers. Such an incredible ear for sonorities. I still have to say his song cycles are his greatest contribution to music, but, of course, so much of his other music is superb. I'll have to give a listen to some of his music tomorrow (or, hopefully, some time soon). Any favorite works?

Yes to the song cycles (which I like, but don't know that well). Offhand, can't think of a single piece I haven't liked by him.

Other faves: the last two symphonies, the three Chains, the Cello Concerto (OMG), and of course, THIS ONE. Really, the Frankfurt crew do an incredible job. Full of admiration, considering they recorded this last November, in the midst of all of this COVID madness.

--Bruce

Mirror Image

Quote from: Brewski on January 25, 2022, 04:32:22 PM
Yes to the song cycles (which I like, but don't know that well). Offhand, can't think of a single piece I haven't liked by him.

Other faves: the last two symphonies, the three Chains, the Cello Concerto (OMG), and of course, THIS ONE. Really, the Frankfurt crew do an incredible job. Full of admiration, considering they recorded this last November, in the midst of all of this COVID madness.

--Bruce

Great stuff, Bruce. It's always nice to how music keeps an insane world sane.

Amfortas

Quote from: Brewski on January 25, 2022, 04:07:06 PM
In honor of the birthday boy, listening to the Concerto for Orchestra, just posted in December, with the Frankfurt Radio Symphony and conductor Krzysztof Urbański. So far, terrific.

Have to say, the Frankfurt ensemble (and their technicians) are doing a fantastic job with these live concerts. However one feels about the performances (most are excellent), the audio and video quality are superb.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7lwCIK7uENM

--Bruce

Totally agree. Urbanski is a terrific young conductor and the Concerto for Orchestra sound like a masterpiece under him with the excellent Frankfur Radio Symphony Orchestra
''Better pass boldly into that other world, in the full glory of some passion, than fade and wither dismally with age.'' - James Joyce (The Dead)

bhodges

Quote from: Symphonic Addict on August 29, 2021, 08:29:15 PM
https://www.youtube.com/v/cXQ1fgmUIPY

I can't get enough of his Concerto for Orchestra. It encapsulates so much greatness, atmosphere and rich music. Gardner leading the hr-Sinfonieorchester succeeds at bringing all the personality this work has and offering a staggering rendition. One of my favorite works of the 20th century.

Missed this, first time around! I've been listening to the same piece, same orchestra, but with Krzysztof Urbański conducting, from last fall (so roughly six years between the two performances). Definitely going to do an A/B comparison.

And agree with the rest of your post, and it's one of my favorites, too.

--Bruce

Symphonic Addict

Quote from: Brewski on January 29, 2022, 08:55:13 AM
Missed this, first time around! I've been listening to the same piece, same orchestra, but with Krzysztof Urbański conducting, from last fall (so roughly six years between the two performances). Definitely going to do an A/B comparison.

And agree with the rest of your post, and it's one of my favorites, too.

--Bruce

Good to know you love the piece too. Simply an inexhaustibly fascinating work!

Just I was listening to his Symphonic Variations from this Chandos series:



I couldn't believe I didn't remember how astounding this piece is! Very in the league of his Concerto for Orchestra, by coincidence.

This work simply blew me away, it's a feast for the orchestra. You need more than one listen to grasp it better. It's that terrific.
Part of the tragedy of the Palestinians is that they have essentially no international support for a good reason: they've no wealth, they've no power, so they've no rights.

Noam Chomsky

Mirror Image

Quote from: Symphonic Addict on February 18, 2022, 03:56:58 PM
Good to know you love the piece too. Simply an inexhaustibly fascinating work!

Just I was listening to his Symphonic Variations from this Chandos series:



I couldn't believe I didn't remember how astounding this piece is! Very in the league of his Concerto for Orchestra, by coincidence.

This work simply blew me away, it's a feast for the orchestra. You need more than one listen to grasp it better. It's that terrific.

As great as the orchestral works are, I still hold the opinion that if you don't love Lutosławski's song cycles, then you don't love this composer's music. I honestly believe that no one could touch him in the late 20th Century when it comes these song cycles for voice and orchestra.

Symphonic Addict

Quote from: Mirror Image on February 18, 2022, 07:53:21 PM
As great as the orchestral works are, I still hold the opinion that if you don't love Lutosławski's song cycles, then you don't love this composer's music. I honestly believe that no one could touch him in the late 20th Century when it comes these song cycles for voice and orchestra.

Whilst I don't subscribe to your view, I do admit his vocal works represent an important part of his style as a composer. One thing doesn't have to do with the another to enjoy the composer's creations.
Part of the tragedy of the Palestinians is that they have essentially no international support for a good reason: they've no wealth, they've no power, so they've no rights.

Noam Chomsky

Mirror Image

Quote from: Symphonic Addict on February 18, 2022, 09:04:11 PM
Whilst I don't subscribe to your view, I do admit his vocal works represent an important part of his style as a composer. One thing doesn't have to do with the another to enjoy the composer's creations.

Of course not, but my point is if you only enjoy the orchestral works, but don't enjoy the vocal works, then one is missing out on one of the most remarkable parts of his oeuvre.