Labels that use/don't use dynamic compression

[radi]

Does anyone happen to have certain information about any classical labels about their position on dynamic compression? Basically I'd like to know which labels never ever use any compression, and which do (even a little). Because I find that dynamic compression is the worst thing you can do to classical music (or any music for that matter). Never mind that the dynamic range is huge and it makes it difficult to listen to in noisy environments. I think these days there are so much playback equipment capable of compressing in real time if needed (amplifiers, mp3 players, computer software, cd players), that there's no reason to ruin the original release with it.
I'm sure there are different views on this, but I'm definitely in the no-compression camp. At best compression doesn't affect that much, except in the very loudest fortissimos where you expect a huge loud climax but instead the compression sort of flattens it and kills the mood. At worst it just completely destroys the music and basically what you get is just from mezzopiano to mezzoforte (or forte to fortissimo, however you want to interpret it).
The only inconvenience in non-compressed records is that you have to adjust the initial volume a little bit. No big deal. There are technologies nowadays that do this for you (replaygain).
Currently I know with certainty of only one label that doesn't use any compression. That's BIS. I've read more than one interview or forum post by Robert von Bahr where he makes that point very clear. But I'm sure there are other such labels too.

-r

[Brian]

Currently I know with certainty of only one label that doesn't use any compression. That's BIS. I've read more than one interview or forum post by Robert von Bahr where he makes that point very clear. But I'm sure there are other such labels too.

Sorry, BIS is the only one I can verify as well.

As an aside: get their Roman Trilogy CD. I played it for my parents recently; the birdsong in "Pines" was so quiet they couldn't hear it over the dishwasher, and then the final march had them running for cover shouting "turn it down!"

[Todd]

Telarc (at least in the earlier days), Water Lily, Chesky, Naim, Linn, Dorian, and Klavier all come to mind.  Reference Recordings maybe.  I don't know if Alia Vox does or does not compress, but their discs are among the finest sounding I've heard.

[radi]

As an aside: get their Roman Trilogy CD. I played it for my parents recently; the birdsong in "Pines" was so quiet they couldn't hear it over the dishwasher, and then the final march had them running for cover shouting "turn it down!"

Yeah, I have that recording too. And I love it. The final movement sounds amazing. No flattening with compression, it just gets from very quiet to super loud like it should.

[radi]

Telarc (at least in the earlier days), Water Lily, Chesky, Naim, Linn, Dorian, and Klavier all come to mind.  Reference Recordings maybe.  I don't know if Alia Vox does or does not compress, but their discs are among the finest sounding I've heard.

Thanks! I have to admit, most of those I haven't heard of. I'll google them and see what they have to offer.

[bigshot]

Dynamic compression is like any tool. It can be used well, and it can be abused. I've supervised recording sessions and I can't imagine not using compression on a recording that includes vocals. It just wouldn't sound right. If you're placing the mike a distance from the performers in an acoustically good environment with a very careful conductor controlling balances- maybe. You'd need plenty of headroom to protect yourself from spikes. But for any kind of closer miking using no compression just wouldn't work.

[Scarpia]

MDG also makes the overt claim of not using dynamic compression, if I recall.  Going back to the golden era of stereo, Mercury Living Presence also described a recording process in which compression was not used.  The same might be true of RCA Living Stereo.   

I tend to think that compression is a red-herring issue.  I can't recall hearing any recently recorded classical music from on CD from "audiophile" labels that sounds compressed.  The main issue that affects me is microphone technique.  I prefer a minimal technique with a small number of microphones, in which the "mix" is done by the concert hall.  However, the major labels like to use huge arrays of microphones so that the balance can be fixed on the mixing console.   I was present for the DG live recording of Mahler 3 with Lenny, and Mahler 10 with MTT in San Francisco.  In both cases, an impressive birds nest of microphones was suspended above the orchestra, with dozens of microphones.

Telarc, BIS, Mercury, old Decca, Pentatone, Teldec, Harmonia Mundi, Hyperion are among the labels that record with what sounds to me like a natural-sounding microphone technique.

But for any kind of closer miking using no compression just wouldn't work.

That's why I don't find close miking appropriate for classical recordings. 

[Brian]

Yeah, I have that recording too. And I love it. The final movement sounds amazing. No flattening with compression, it just gets from very quiet to super loud like it should.

Linn is a great British label, fairly new I think, and they have my all-time favorite Mozart 39th as part of a series of outstanding recordings with the Scottish Chamber Orchestra and Charles Mackerras.

Dorian was an American label with fixtures like the Dallas Symphony. It died in the '90s and its back catalogue has been revived by Sono Luminus, a phoenix-like reincarnation which makes some very good recordings focusing on smaller ensembles. From Sono Luminus' new releases, consider the Jasper Quartet's Beethoven. On the other hand, the three Bruce Levingston piano recitals, while artistically pretty interesting, do suffer from variable sound quality (two venues, one of them stinks) which is apparent even on my laptop's speakers.

Alia Vox is Jordi Savall's early music label, and includes some superb stuff. Now that I think about it, "Istanbul" is likely not compressed at all - truly staggering sound quality on that, and I haven't listened to its sequel "Armenian Spirit" but I'd bet it sounds similar. His Water/Fireworks Music is nigh-definitive.

MDG's a very good German label. Try the Jean-Efflam Bavouzet piano recordings or, if you like clarinet, anything by Dieter Klocker. Can't say I have many of their CDs, though.

I don't know anything about the use or disuse of compression by these labels but would trust Todd on this.

[Todd]

Linn is a great British label, fairly new I think

The label is new-ish, though the company has been around producing high end audio gear for 40+ years.  Same goes for Naim, though their label has been around for quite a while now. 

[radi]

Dynamic compression is like any tool. It can be used well, and it can be abused. I've supervised recording sessions and I can't imagine not using compression on a recording that includes vocals. It just wouldn't sound right. If you're placing the mike a distance from the performers in an acoustically good environment with a very careful conductor controlling balances- maybe. You'd need plenty of headroom to protect yourself from spikes. But for any kind of closer miking using no compression just wouldn't work.

I can't say anything on the technical stuff since I'm not a recording engineer. All I know is that when I hear the volume flattening on a loud part, I don't like what I'm hearing. On BIS albums I don't hear such thing.
In popular music these days the compression is just out of control and I'm sure you'll agree with that. I just hope classical recording industry isn't going in the same direction. Because excessive compression is for me a reason not to buy an album. I always try to listen to the record before buying, but sometimes it just slips by and I only start noticing volume flattening on repeated listenings. That's why it'd be great to know in advance which labels don't compress. Unfortunately reviewers (at least the ones I'm reading) generally seem to ignore compression issues even when it's clearly excessive.

-r

[Brian]

You may wish to read the reviews at Audiophile Audition, although they don't make a point of mentioning the compression issue specifically. You might be able to write to them and ask if they have any information on labels which exhibit this problem regularly or are "safe".

Also my link reminds me Channel Classics might be in the clear.

[radi]

You may wish to read the reviews at Audiophile Audition, although they don't make a point of mentioning the compression issue specifically. You might be able to write to them and ask if they have any information on labels which exhibit this problem regularly or are "safe".

Thanks for the link. Seems like a good site. Goes to my bookmarks.
Also you convinced me on the Mackerras' Mozart 39 on Linn -> went to my buying list. Mozart's 39th is one of the must-haves still missing from my collection.

Also my link reminds me Channel Classics might be in the clear.

I have their Mahler 2nd with Fischer & Budapest Festival Orchestra, and I like the sound quality (and the performance) very much. It has a huge dynamic range too so it's propably compression-free indeed.

-r

[Scarpia]

Thanks for the link. Seems like a good site. Goes to my bookmarks.
Also you convinced me on the Mackerras' Mozart 39 on Linn -> went to my buying list. Mozart's 39th is one of the must-haves still missing from my collection.

Well, we all have our preferences.  I was more happy with Mackerras' earlier recording of the work with the Prague Chamber Orchestra on Telarc.  (they not only vow never to use a compressor, but also renounce transformers in their recording chain).

[The new erato]

I have their Mahler 2nd with Fischer & Budapest Festival Orchestra, and I like the sound quality (and the performance) very much. It has a huge dynamic range too so it's propably compression-free indeed.

The Mahler/Fischer series is awesome recordingwise (and very god in other departments as well).

[Scarpia]

The Mahler/Fischer series is awesome recordingwise (and very god in other departments as well).

Fischer also has a Brahms 1 which is distinctly on the lyrical side of the lyrical/monumental divide.

[aukhawk]

All I know is that when I hear the volume flattening on a loud part, I don't like what I'm hearing. On BIS albums I don't hear such thing.

If you hear compression when you're trying to listen to music, all that means is it hasn't been done very well.
If you don't hear it - yes that is often a sign of a good recording, but it doesn't mean there hasn't been any compression - much more likely it means that it's been skilfully applied, as you would expect from top-flight audio engineers.

The BIS label is a near-guarantee of good recorded sound - but I would suggest that for a BIS representative to say there has been no compression (if that is what I read upthread) is just disingenuous.  Domestic playback simply can't handle the full dynamic of, say, a concert grand piano, let alone a full orchestra - so a record company that didn't tailor its sound in recognition of this basic physics would be doing its customers no favours at all.  It's possible (just) they record without compression - if so, then it is surely applied at the CD mastering stage.  Or, maybe, vice versa.  Either of those scenarios might allow a spokesman to say, hand on heart (but fingers crossed) "no compression was used".

In the case of Mercury - great recordings, I have several of them and listen to them often - quite apart from any other consideration magnetic tape is a self-limiting recording medium - as the sound levels increase, and the magnetic flux increases, a 'natural' compression occurs long before any offensive distortion sets in.  I seem to recall this useful feature of tape was mentioned by John Culshaw in his book Ring Resounding, written before digits were even thought of.  I'll look that up.

[Daverz]

I can't think of any modern commercial recordings where compression is an issue.  Perhaps I'm not attuned to the negative effects.

On the other hand, excessive dynamic range is an issue for me.  I really need double-paned windows to reduce the ambient noise level, but the taxman needs to be paid first.

[Tapio Dmitriyevich]

I can't think of any modern commercial recordings where compression is an issue.  Perhaps I'm not attuned to the negative effects.

Which is good. I remember the times of slightly disadjusted cassette recorder heads - I was the only one hearing it and it was annoying, I always had to fix it.
But usually, in modern recordings, dynamics compression is not an issue for me. Its alright if it's well done. That means, a) there must be enough difference between whispering and tutti forte, and b) no audible ascending/descending volume changing because of a loudness change.

On the other hand, excessive dynamic range is an issue for me.

This, but abuse of dynamics compression can be terrible.

The (often claimed as) best Shostakovich 11 is unlistenable. It's just terrible. Its a mastering mess. You can easily hear ascending and descending volume dependent on the actual loudness level.

[snyprrr]

The (often claimed as) best Shostakovich 11 is unlistenable. It's just terrible. Its a mastering mess. You can easily hear ascending and descending volume dependent on the actual loudness level.

Haha, yes!, it's the best because you can actually hear the harp plucks in the very beginning. I remember thinking, wow!, what a sound this record has, haha.

[aukhawk]

Stokowski though - where's a "we are not worthy" smiley when you want one - it is a good performance.