Oh, look! Another US mass shooting.

[Karl Henning]

There is no law that can be enacted that will stop mass killings.

Agreed, entirely.

As long as the debate is about specific guns and not the users and their history, not much will change. 

I would strongly support regulations aimed at intense and instantaneous background checks at every venue where guns are sold.  These b/g checks should deny anyone with a criminal record (anything from animal abuse on up) the right to purchase a gun.  It should also severely impair the ability of anyone with a history of serious mental illness, and anyone in the same household, to buy a gun.

Internet sales should be ended as well.

But what is still not addressed sufficiently is the over medication of children with psychotropic drugs.  The facts are coming out that Adam Lanza had been medicated since he was ten years old.

As I posted early on in this thread - banning assault rifles is law hanging fruit, and almost a distraction from the problem.  Guns and psychotropic medications are a toxic mix.

But I oppose a broad brushed ban on various kinds of weapons because a small number of people who never should have had access to a gun in the first place commit murder.

I'll say again that gun control is only one part of the problem, and I completely agree that care for the mentally ill and the question of medication are an important consideration.

The ready availability of weapons of mass murder is low-hanging fruit for the murderously inclined.  We cannot completely stop mass murder, but we can better control devices which are designed for mass slaughter.

It baffles me that there is not general agreement on that matter.

[Mirror Image]

Agreed, entirely.[/font]

Hello? Will the real Karl Henning please stand? Hehehehe....I've said what Leo K said all along!

[Dungeon Master]

Perhaps, instead of the USA wasting billions of dollars on gun control laws and gun registry (like Canada wasted millions on), these millions/bilions can be spent on having thoroughly trained security guards at all the schools/colleges/universities, and metal detectors for each entry area?  A huge undertaking, no doubt, but this is already done at airports.

What a lovely society you envisage.

[snyprrr]

Did anyone see THIS??? Go to 3:11, back up a bit,... Blitzer is introducing this 'father', and then:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vIlo-Avhd4

Please tell me you saw what I saw. Tell me what I'm pointing out please.

[Gurn Blanston]

Did anyone see THIS??? Go to 3:11, back up a bit,... Blitzer is introducing this 'father', and then:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vIlo-Avhd4

Please tell me you saw what I saw. Tell me what I'm pointing out please.

Seemed awfully 'grinny' until he knew the camera was on him....

[Mirror Image]

Did anyone see THIS??? Go to 3:11, back up a bit,... Blitzer is introducing this 'father', and then:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vIlo-Avhd4

Please tell me you saw what I saw. Tell me what I'm pointing out please.

This is exactly what I'm talking about when I mention that the United States is a cold, heartless place. Why is this man smiling and laughing? This is the look of a man who who doesn't care about much of anything. I'd tell him that to his face too.

[kishnevi]

In Australia we do not feel the need to protect ourselves from "feral" humans.

Why?

• The vast majority of the population do not have guns.
• Death by homicide is a very rare cause of death in Australia.
• Death by firearm homicide is extremely rare in Australia
• Death by firearm homicide from an unknown assailant is now almost unheard of in Australia

Being killed by a stranger with a gun in Australia is something I do not need to worry about while I live here. Its one of the many reasons why I do live here.

Your argument is invalid.  You're not exactly comparing apples to oranges, but you're comparing Granny Smith apples to all apples, include those not normally used as food.

Feral humans don't just murder with guns;  they murder with knives, bats, and quite an assortment of weapons.  I know of a homicide which was committed with a fork.
[Content warning: those about to eat or who just eaten may want to come back to the next sentence at a later time.]
(Admittedly, self defense with any weapon didn't really enter into that case: it was a dinner table argument in which the killer lost his temper and probably didn't even think about the possibility that death would ensue; nonetheless, it was a homicide (voluntary manslaughter) for which he went to jail.)

Feral humans don't just murder: they rape, rob, assualt,  terrorize, and otherwise violate the personhood of other people through violence.

Against all of those the quickest and surest method of protection is for the intended victim to have a weapon readily available to use against the criminal. 

Australia has, in effect, legislated the right of self-defense out of existence.

[Leo K.]

This is exactly what I'm talking about when I mention that the United States is a cold, heartless place. Why is this man smiling and laughing? This is the look of a man who who doesn't care about much of anything. I'd tell him that to his face too.

Exactly!

[Sammy]

This is exactly what I'm talking about when I mention that the United States is a cold, heartless place. Why is this man smiling and laughing? This is the look of a man who who doesn't care about much of anything. I'd tell him that to his face too.

If you did, it wouldn't be the first time you made a fool of yourself.  The man just lost his child; shame on you.

Parents who lose their child often exhibit a wide variety of responses.  I worked with a good man who lost his youngest daughter to cancer.  A week after the funeral he came back to work, and I'd never seen him so upbeat.  About four months later, he was admitted to the hospital with severe depression.

I saw an interview with one of the Newtown moms who lost her son; she was bright and cheery throughout.  Would you like to dump on her also?

[snyprrr]

This is exactly what I'm talking about when I mention that the United States is a cold, heartless place. Why is this man smiling and laughing? This is the look of a man who who doesn't care about much of anything. I'd tell him that to his face too.

He's an actor. Have you never seen an actor getting into character? Have you seen ANYONE act like a normal grieving person in this scenario?

Do normal grieving parents give interviews, all gussied up, days after a massacre?


I am convinced that this 'town' of Sandy Hook,... well, I can guess this isn't the crowd to let both barrels fly, so, I'll just let you believe that I'm leaning towards the worst possible fraud here.

Less people than you think to pull it off, just ask my cia friends...

monstrous

[snyprrr]

If you did, it wouldn't be the first time you made a fool of yourself.  The man just lost his child; shame on you.

Parents who lose their child often exhibit a wide variety of responses.  I worked with a good man who lost his youngest daughter to cancer.  A week after the funeral he came back to work, and I'd never seen him so upbeat.  About four months later, he was admitted to the hospital with severe depression.

I saw an interview with one of the Newtown moms who lost her son; she was bright and cheery throughout.  Would you like to dump on her also?

They're all mind controlled actors playing their own families for the 'greater good' of the disarmed New Amerika. Newtown is a Potemkin village. Please know an actor getting into character, please. Take this tape to your campus film class, out of context, and they will ask why that wasn't cut.

HAS ANYONE SEEN AN ACTOR GETTING INTO CHARACTER? Look at ther video again, please. Look carefully at what he's doing. For whatever reason, HE IS DOING WHAT ACTORS ARE TAUGHT TO DO.

The whole town apparently is full of emotional-less grievers,... most bizarre community on earth? Just look at all the interviews. CREE-PEEE!!!

[Florestan]

Perhaps, instead of the USA wasting billions of dollars on gun control laws and gun registry (like Canada wasted millions on), these millions/bilions can be spent on having thoroughly trained security guards at all the schools/colleges/universities, and metal detectors for each entry area?  A huge undertaking, no doubt, but this is already done at airports.

If you want to witness exactly the system you propose just make a trip to Johannesburg, South Africa. Actually there it is extended to whole borrows which are fenced and the entrances are guarded by trained security agents. Nobody can enter who has not a zonal residence/work permit or who has not been expressly invited by an inhabitant of the borrow (in which case confirmation from him is mandatory as well as valid IDs for visitors). But that's just about it. Stepping or driving outside your borrow without carrying a gun is suicidal. Be prepared at any time to have to shoot. Don't even think about going downtown for dinner or theater. Actually, best for you would be not to leave the borrow at all, save emergency cases.

I'm sure you'd be delighted to live there...

What a lovely society you envisage.

+1.

[Florestan]

Feral humans don't just murder: they rape, rob, assualt,  terrorize, and otherwise violate the personhood of other people through violence.

Against all of those the quickest and surest method of protection is for the intended victim to have a weapon readily available to use against the criminal.

So in your opinion I, or indeed everybody, should always and everywhere carry a gun, just in case, isn't it? Or if I am not allowed guns (which I am not) at least a knife would be recommended? At what age do you suggest children should begin to be trained in using, and allowed to carry, guns? Children fight each other regularly, if one is shot by another, would the killer be in self-defense? My neighbor terrorizes me with loud music at night; am I in self-defense if I shoot/stab him? Am I in self-defense shooting a pickpocket who just tried to take my wallet?

TIA.

[Florestan]

We cannot completely stop mass murder, but we can better control devices which are designed for mass slaughter.

It baffles me that there is not general agreement on that matter.[/font]

What is actually baffling is that it is only in the US that the general agreement lacks. Everywhere else in the world it is common sense.

[Opus106]

At what age do you suggest children should begin to be trained in using, and allowed to carry, guns? Children fight each other regularly, if one is shot by another, would the killer be in self-defense?

Came across this satirical piece yesterday which takes this idea to ridiculous extremes.

[Florestan]

But what is still not addressed sufficiently is the over medication of children with psychotropic drugs.  The facts are coming out that Adam Lanza had been medicated since he was ten years old.

Agreed entirely. Can anyone explain me the rationale behind this American obsession with psychotropic medication not only for adults but also for children?

[Florestan]

Came across this satirical piece yesterday which takes this idea to ridiculous extremes.

[Florestan]

First they came for the communists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.

Then they came for the socialists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a socialist.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for me,
and there was no one left to speak for me.

Please show me one single totalitarian government that was delayed, or altogether deterred, in his actions by the widespread private ownership of guns.

[Brahmsian]

What a lovely society you envisage.

Oh no, this is not what I want to happen, at all. 

Please understand, I want what everyone else here wants, the ending of these senseless massacres.

I don't know what the solution is?

America is the largest democracy, population wise.  The USA enjoys freedoms that very few countries have.  However, this also provides opportunities for those with this freedom to abuse and misuse their rights.

Dungeon Master, I'm just not convinced that what may work in Australia or Canada, would work in the USA, when the USA population is approx. 15 times that of Australia, and approx. 10 times that of Canada.

[Karl Henning]

The British by the Americans, circa 1776.

The British have not suffered totalitarian government since Magna Carta (at least) ; )

My friend, the idea that private ownership of guns can protect against a determined totalitarian government, is a fond fantasy.

The idea that the United States will degrade into a totalitarian government, is a borderline-deranged fantasy.