Author Topic: La Generacion del '51: The Spanish Avant-Garde  (Read 15857 times)

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snyprrr

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Re: La Generacion del '51: The Spanish Avant-Garde
« Reply #60 on: July 18, 2011, 09:20:22 AM »
I have these





Will try to upload a sample track next week

Also have Cristobal Halffter 3



I see now that Kairos has released the 3 SQs of Jesus Rueda on Amazon.uk. Seeing as that Arditti set has gone AWOL (I have so tried to communicate with 'iberautor', or whatever that strange, non working website is called (boy, and they have some interesting stuff)), this is a welcome relief.

snyprrr

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Re: La Generacion del '51: The Spanish Avant-Garde
« Reply #61 on: July 30, 2011, 09:50:39 PM »
Halffter, String quartets vol. 2, Arditti String Quartet



This is a more polished rendition of SQ 2 and SQ 7 than the Leipziger on MDG. The Leipziger sounds more romantic and warm, whereas the Arditti sounds cleaner, more clinical (in a good way) and refined. With the Arditti, the comparison with Rihm I made earlier no longer feels completely accurate; for instance, they make SQ 2 sound more carefully and subtly put together, a restrained wildness that differs from the jaggedness and angular figures that reminded me of Rihm in the other recording.

SQ 2, which I already enjoyed, is, with this recording, turning out to be my absolute favorite Halffter.

A nice bonus on this CD is the recordings of Con bravura y sentimiento and Zeitgestalt, the two "intermediate" quartets that were absorbed into SQ 6. Although I also have vol. 1, I haven't yet played it to compare these with SQ 6. However, it is clear that Con bravura y sentimiento is too short all by itself and really needs room to breathe. Perhaps the best way to consume this piece is as part of a program with the other pieces dedicated to Alfred Schlee; I'll give that a try sometime. Zeitgestalt fares much better as an independent piece.

I'll compare the two versions of SQ 7 some other time. After listening to SQ 2, listening to SQ 7 feels like a pointless and unfair exercise.

I just got this today (love the blue dust jacket!,... goes so well with vol.1 ;)). I saved No.2 for the late night ride, and when I finally heard it, I was surprised. I knew there was an experimental element, and this piece has been built up elsewhere, but I had no idea it would revolve around Beethoven fragments. At first I was hesitant, but, if I lump this quartet in with the "influenced by the '60s" set, Halffter treats his materials with the same reverence that informs all his output I recall the SQ from, I believe, the same year, by Peter Ruzicka (I'm sure you have it), which he wrote in a drug experimentation lab. I thought I remembered an LvB or Mahler quote in there.

I thought No.2 did sound (or, reminded me) of Rihm's SQ No.3, too. Perhaps this is the comparison you heard?


Though I have no desire to shell out more for the Leipzigers, you certainly make me want to compare for myself. You must admit that it is a freak luxury to have brand new competing versions of these pieces, no? This never happens. ???

I had prepared myself for disappointment with No.7, perhaps having taken your review wrongly; but, I was pleasantly surprised by the cascades of notes that greeted me in the first two movements. I still haven't heard the last track, but already I'm liking this piece a lot. 6-7 sound very mature to me, the Grand Old Man of Spanish High Modernism just letting it flow. I feel an atmospheric kinship to Berio's Notturno, and Boucourchliev's last. A lot of these older types of Composers have written some very deep sounding Late Works since the late '90s. Perhaps the greatest days of experimentation are gone for them, but their Mastery of Forn & Content is Complete. Being as No.7 was so much better than I has hoped for, I have taken to liking No.6 more too.

I did play 5-6 back and forth to hear how No.5 was absorbed into 6. Am I hearing more stuff in the proper No.5, or is the 6 recording different (I don't think so)?,... I can tell some sections, but, I think maybe some portions are changed? I can't tell yet where the torso of 6 begins. I did like No.5 fairly well by itself.


In all now, I'm very impressed with Halffter's maturing. You like No.2 best, I like No.3. I also like the warmth of reflection in No.7, a very nice mature work. I practically have all the available Halffter Chamber Music now, and am looking forward to a chronological survey. Halffter I like; maybe it's the sad eyes?

I do also sense this new Arditti unit playing very fiercely, and the recording captures such a wonderful group sound, very rich I thought. These are recordings that are very pleasurable to listen to I thought. The group's playing is just so there that there's really nothing to talk about.


I had wanted to add some balancing criticism so that you wouldn't think I'm sucking up, but, I'm thinking this Cycle stands up well to comparison with any of Halffter's peers' SQ Cycles. For some reason, comparison with Berio's Cycle seem appropriate. What do you think?

snyprrr

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Re: La Generacion del '51: The Spanish Avant-Garde
« Reply #62 on: July 31, 2011, 07:32:35 PM »
SQ 2 is 22 mins Leipziger, 18 mins Arditti
SQ 4 comes at 2:40 with the Arditti
SQ 5 is 8 mins with the Arditti
SQ 7 is 23 mins with both the Leipziger and the Arditti

I want to ask you about track 6, the last track on this vol.2. Does the very first note (it takes a few seconds, @10secs.??) sound funny to you, as if it were a bad edit,... or, is that just the first note? You have to turn it up to really hear what I'm hearing. When it's fairly low, it just sounds like the first note, very very soft, but when it's louder it almost does sound like an edit.

snyprrr

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Re: La Generacion del '51: The Spanish Avant-Garde
« Reply #63 on: March 06, 2012, 08:56:44 AM »
Jesus Rueda & Alberto Posadas


The moment I put on Rueda's String Quartet No.1, I heard what seemed to be familiar motifs. After a few moments I said to myself, This sounds a lot like Guerrero. And, lo and behold, the notes claimed Guerrero as teacher!

Later I put on Posadas's five quartet cycle Liturgia Fractal, and, the same thing occurred. The same 'fractal' sounding meme that permeates Guerrero's work was intrinsically worked out here, in a 50min. multi-movement work.

First off, I have to admit that when I first listened to Guerrero's music for strings as presented by the Arditti, I really really didn't like this 'Spanish Xenakis'. Guerrero plowed the same fields as Xenakis, with similarly ascetic results, but with a grimy humorlessness that made the music unattractive to me. Sure, there was science, but did it HAVE to sound so... so.... uncompromising?

So, imagine my, um, slight displeasure at first. To be sure, the entire 50mins. of the Posadas work in draining to listen to, with none of the markers that I was looking for. Though more 'exciting' than Guerrero, this music still is a formidable slab of de rigour. The Rueda piece was even more imaginative, but still retained the harsh contours of all these works.

Ruedas second two String Quartets, however, TOTALLY shift gears into a much much more evocative cast. These two are advanced yet meditative, earthy yet mercurial, perhaps reminding one more of a Frenchman's take on things,... well,... Spain IS south of France!

Both cds are on the Kairos label, though the Rueda seems to be only available in the EU. The Arditti did have a 2-cd set of the Rueda SQs, plus other works, that for all purposes seems to have gone down with the Spanish economy, so, this new release reveals what none of us could have discovered years ago.

These two were my foray into unknown territory last year, and reveal both the pleasures and dangers of totally new stuff (that you have to PAY for (very important,... right?, you promo hogs?? (you know who you are (yes, FOUR :o parenthesis!!!! )))). I get slightly disappointed in that things are not exactly like I expect them, but, thankfully, the works are chewy enough to keep one coming back for intimacy's sake.

I don't mean this review as a Buy It Now!, since I would suppose most who would be in the market might hesitate in the face of a not-100%, 'just like Xenakis', review. Don't get me wrong, both are worthy explorations, but I have to know that there would be only about 2-3, to begin with, who might be interested. Perhaps, if you need something rough and ready, try the Posadas; I mean, it is a quite substantial work, and worthy of close scrutiny (it also sounds just right played backwards and at double speed, so, yes, it IS one of those kinds of works, haha). Enjoy?!?!! ;D

Offline Pessoa

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Re: La Generacion del '51: The Spanish Avant-Garde
« Reply #64 on: November 13, 2013, 11:59:11 AM »


For 6 percussionists and voice  :)

Offline Pessoa

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snyprrr

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Re: La Generacion del '51: The Spanish Avant-Garde
« Reply #66 on: November 14, 2013, 08:11:10 AM »


For 6 percussionists and voice  :)

Well that's interesting. He likes the 'magical' sounds, so I can see him weaving things with 6Ps.

I have a couple of works by del Puerto, oboe and harpsichord concertos, on Bvhaast (both with Xenakis), and I remember them as wanting to return to them, or to explore a little further.

What do you think of Rueda and Posadas, or, Guerrero in general. All quite a brutal vision of Xenakian Spectralism? ??? :o

Offline Pessoa

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Re: La Generacion del '51: The Spanish Avant-Garde
« Reply #67 on: November 14, 2013, 12:21:52 PM »
Yes, Guerrero sounds like a Xenakis´s discharge. It´s a pity he died at a young age.

Offline Mandryka

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Re: La Generacion del '51: The Spanish Avant-Garde
« Reply #68 on: December 16, 2015, 06:18:29 AM »
I'm keen to hear the Arditti recordings of Cristobal Halffter's quartets. If anyone sees them for sale, or can upload them, please let me know.

Listening right now to the Leipzig Quartet play Espacio de Silencio - this is pretty cool music.

Edit: found two of them on Amazon.es, but I'll leave the post here in case anyone wants to talk music. Were there only two?
« Last Edit: December 16, 2015, 06:24:50 AM by Mandryka »
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snyprrr

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Re: La Generacion del '51: The Spanish Avant-Garde
« Reply #69 on: December 17, 2015, 08:29:50 AM »
I'm keen to hear the Arditti recordings of Cristobal Halffter's quartets. If anyone sees them for sale, or can upload them, please let me know.

Listening right now to the Leipzig Quartet play Espacio de Silencio - this is pretty cool music.

Edit: found two of them on Amazon.es, but I'll leave the post here in case anyone wants to talk music. Were there only two?

I saw that those Arditti/Halffter discs were looking a bit OOP,... mm,... got mine when they came out,... you know how it works that way,...

Yes, two volumes,...


Halffter- yea, I really like his take,... he seems very sad about his Espana... he also is one of those that puts ancient melodies in the midst of die-hard AvantGardism, but it works with him,... he's certainly "kitchen sink" like Schnittke, though they both share similarities of gloom (also along with 80s Penderecki- witness all three of their Cello Concertos for Slava, all pretty morose).

Hope you fish out a copy...

Offline Mandryka

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Re: La Generacion del '51: The Spanish Avant-Garde
« Reply #70 on: December 20, 2015, 10:24:50 AM »
I saw that those Arditti/Halffter discs were looking a bit OOP,... mm,... got mine when they came out,... you know how it works that way,...

Yes, two volumes,...


Halffter- yea, I really like his take,... he seems very sad about his Espana... he also is one of those that puts ancient melodies in the midst of die-hard AvantGardism, but it works with him,... he's certainly "kitchen sink" like Schnittke, though they both share similarities of gloom (also along with 80s Penderecki- witness all three of their Cello Concertos for Slava, all pretty morose).

Hope you fish out a copy...

Yes I ordered both and vol 2 arrived today, I'm listening to the 7th now, which sounds much more aggressive than the Leipzig Quartet, as you would expect! The 2nd has this enormous quote from Beethoven!  I can't wait to hear the 3rd quartet you liked so much.

Anyway, this is just to say thanks for this thread - there's a lot of interesting music to explore here.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2015, 10:41:06 AM by Mandryka »
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Offline ritter

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Re: La Generacion del '51: The Spanish Avant-Garde
« Reply #71 on: December 20, 2015, 11:02:48 AM »
Yes I ordered both and vol 2 arrived today, I'm listening to the 7th now, which sounds much more aggressive than the Leipzig Quartet, as you would expect! The 2nd has this enormous quote from Beethoven!  I can't wait to hear the 3rd quartet you liked so much.

Anyway, this is just to say thanks for this thread - there's a lot of interesting music to explore here.
There's an Eighth SQ by Cristóbal Halffter, permièred last year here in Madrid by the Leipzig (not yet on CD). I attended the première; it was a memorable concert (at the Reina Sofía Museum), and I could shake the composer's hand at the end, and express my gratitude and admiration. This Eighth Quartet has quotes from Bartók (which I must admit I could not identify  :-[ ). The program appropriately included Bartók's First and Sixth SQ.

As snyprrr rightly points out, Halffter manages to introduce quotations form old music into his die-hard modernist idiom very succesfully. It's almost become a sort of trademark of his art.

As for the Second SQ,the Beethoven quote (from the op. 135 SQ) was again used very effectively in a work for for string orchestra with the title Pourquoi?. It's available on this CD (which contains some major Halffter works, and really worth exploring):



Nice to see Cristóbal Halffter appreciated here on GMG. A great composer IMHO, whose music I have loved fro some 25 years now....
« Last Edit: December 20, 2015, 11:12:51 AM by ritter »
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Offline Mandryka

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Re: La Generacion del '51: The Spanish Avant-Garde
« Reply #72 on: December 20, 2015, 01:37:13 PM »
It does look as though vol 1 of the Arditti recordings, the one with the famous 3rd quartet, really is unobtainable. So if anyone sees it please let me know.
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snyprrr

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Re: La Generacion del '51: The Spanish Avant-Garde
« Reply #73 on: December 27, 2015, 11:47:01 AM »
There's an Eighth SQ by Cristóbal Halffter, permièred last year here in Madrid by the Leipzig (not yet on CD). I attended the première; it was a memorable concert (at the Reina Sofía Museum), and I could shake the composer's hand at the end, and express my gratitude and admiration. This Eighth Quartet has quotes from Bartók (which I must admit I could not identify  :-[ ). The program appropriately included Bartók's First and Sixth SQ.

As snyprrr rightly points out, Halffter manages to introduce quotations form old music into his die-hard modernist idiom very succesfully. It's almost become a sort of trademark of his art.

As for the Second SQ,the Beethoven quote (from the op. 135 SQ) was again used very effectively in a work for for string orchestra with the title Pourquoi?. It's available on this CD (which contains some major Halffter works, and really worth exploring):



Nice to see Cristóbal Halffter appreciated here on GMG. A great composer IMHO, whose music I have loved fro some 25 years now....

Yes, I've enjoyed that Verso disc... along with the one with 'Music for Piano(s)'... and that odd Temes...Conjunto release (very Spanish release)...

wish those old Montaigne releases weren't so $$$, would like the Violin Conceeto... Piano... Cello...



he's got to be getting old ??? I am really drawn to the Late Works of these Final Masters of High Modernism... he's about one of the last...

Offline Mandryka

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Re: La Generacion del '51: The Spanish Avant-Garde
« Reply #74 on: December 30, 2015, 05:35:27 AM »
I have both volumes now. Vol 1. was easily obtained through La Quinta de Mahler in Madrid, Vol 2 through Amazon.es.

But what I wonder is this: has anyone pealed off the stickers to create their own artistic arrangement on the front? Photographs appreciated.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2015, 05:37:33 AM by Mandryka »
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snyprrr

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Re: La Generacion del '51: The Spanish Avant-Garde
« Reply #75 on: January 01, 2016, 10:02:22 AM »
I have both volumes now. Vol 1. was easily obtained through La Quinta de Mahler in Madrid, Vol 2 through Amazon.es.

But what I wonder is this: has anyone pealed off the stickers to create their own artistic arrangement on the front? Photographs appreciated.

I did with the first one, but I felt like I was ruining it- I mean, what if you put the sticker down and it's off by just a fraction????? horrors!!!!!! so I left the other one in tact..... yes, the temptation is strong

best packaging EVERRRRR!!!!!!!!!

snyprrr

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Re: La Generacion del '51: The Spanish Avant-Garde LUIS DE PABLO
« Reply #76 on: April 20, 2016, 03:45:43 PM »
Has anyone kept up with Luis De Pablo recently? I was about to break out the Library...