Insights, Snippets, Quotes, Epiphanies & All That Sort of Things

Started by Wakefield, December 30, 2012, 01:55:32 PM

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Ten thumbs

Quote from: Florestan on November 29, 2013, 05:42:32 AM
If you have selfish, ignorant citizens, you're going to get selfish, ignorant leaders. Term limits ain't going to do any good; you're just going to end up with a brand new bunch of selfish, ignorant Americans. So, maybe, maybe, maybe, it's not the politicians who suck. Maybe something else sucks around here... like, the public. Yeah, the public sucks. There's a nice campaign slogan for somebody: 'The Public Sucks. F*ck Hope." [/i] - George Carlin

Don't despair - George Carlin is just another selfish, ignorant citizen. So there is hope!
A day may be a destiny; for life
Lives in but little—but that little teems
With some one chance, the balance of all time:
A look—a word—and we are wholly changed.

ibanezmonster

Quote from: karlhenning on November 29, 2013, 05:53:36 AM
I shall have the pleasure of waiting upon the shopping public the latter part of this afternoon and this evening.
Me, too. But usually it isn't that bad for me. Of course, I could be the guy who worked at Wal-Mart today and got trampled to death.

kishnevi

Quote from: karlhenning on November 29, 2013, 05:53:36 AM
I shall have the pleasure of waiting upon the shopping public the latter part of this afternoon and this evening.

And I had the pleasure of waiting on the shopping public for eleven of the last fifteen hours.

At about 3:30 AM, a mother and daughter team heavily laden with bags began to try on what small assortment of sandals we have at this time of the year.   The mother sympathized with the hard lot of we retailers in having to work such hard hours (in my case, 2AM to 2PM).  I suppressed the urge to point out to her that if she and her ilk were not shopping at 3:30 AM, the corporate bosses would not be tempted to be open all night, and we retailers would not be working quite such hard hours....

Quote from: Florestan on November 29, 2013, 06:19:19 AM
I am a most unhappy man. I have unwittingly ruined my country. A great industrial nation is controlled by its system of credit. Our system of credit is concentrated. The growth of the nation, therefore, and all our activities are in the hands of a few men. We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated Governments in the civilized world - no longer a Government by free opinion, no longer a Government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a Government by the opinion and duress of a small group of dominant men.Woodrow Wilson

Be it noted that American conservatives love to point to Wilson as a prime example of an elitist pro-Big Government Democrat.....

Florestan

Quote from: Jeffrey Smith on November 29, 2013, 03:09:49 PM
And I had the pleasure of waiting on the shopping public for eleven of the last fifteen hours.

At about 3:30 AM, a mother and daughter team heavily laden with bags began to try on what small assortment of sandals we have at this time of the year.   The mother sympathized with the hard lot of we retailers in having to work such hard hours (in my case, 2AM to 2PM).  I suppressed the urge to point out to her that if she and her ilk were not shopping at 3:30 AM, the corporate bosses would not be tempted to be open all night, and we retailers would not be working quite such hard hours....

I wonder where the Black as in Black Friday come from...  ;D

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Be it noted that American conservatives love to point to Wilson as a prime example of an elitist pro-Big Government Democrat.....

Are American conservatives opposed to elitist pro-Big Government Republicans, too? ;D
Every kind of music is good, except the boring kind. — Rossini

kishnevi

Quote from: Florestan on November 30, 2013, 07:25:53 AM
I wonder where the Black as in Black Friday come from...  ;D

The idea is that for most retailers,  whatever profit they make for the year can be represented by sales from the Christmas shopping period, and therefore on the first day of the Christmas shopping period  stores move from financial red to financial black. However true it was in former times,  now it's probably urban legend.  But a potent one, as not merely normal stores engage in it.  Chevrolet is advertising a "Black Friday Sale" at its dealerships this weekend, and Amazon UK is as keen to offer Black Friday deals as Amazon US.

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Are American conservatives opposed to elitist pro-Big Government Republicans, too? ;D

In theory, yes.  In practice many of them dutifully trot off to vote for such Republicans because they are at least better than those demonic Democrats.  But much of the strength of the Tea Party movement (which is far from spent) comes from the dissatisfaction of the Right for the GOP establishment, whom they refer to as "Republicans In Name Only"--RINOs.

Florestan

Quote from: Jeffrey Smith on November 30, 2013, 07:38:57 AM
The idea is that for most retailers,  whatever profit they make for the year can be represented by sales from the Christmas shopping period, and therefore on the first day of the Christmas shopping period  stores move from financial red to financial black. However true it was in former times,  now it's probably urban legend.  But a potent one, as not merely normal stores engage in it.  Chevrolet is advertising a "Black Friday Sale" at its dealerships this weekend, and Amazon UK is as keen to offer Black Friday deals as Amazon US.

Why, thanks, but I was thinking about black as in "Black was the sky at 3:30 AM when a mother and daughter team heavily laden with bags began to try on what small assortment of sandals J.Smith & Sons had at that time of the year." Boy, wouldn't that make a great first line of a novel?  :D

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In theory, yes.  In practice many of them dutifully trot off to vote for such Republicans because they are at least better than those demonic Democrats.  But much of the strength of the Tea Party movement (which is far from spent) comes from the dissatisfaction of the Right for the GOP establishment, whom they refer to as "Republicans In Name Only"--RINOs.

I see. "Our" Big Government is at least better than "theirs".  ;D
Every kind of music is good, except the boring kind. — Rossini

Florestan

Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.

Education: the inculcation of the incomprehensible into the indifferent by the incompetent.

When the final result is expected to be a compromise, it is often prudent to start from an extreme position.

A study of the history of opinion is a necessary preliminary to the emancipation of the mind.


John Maynard Keynes

To be stupid, selfish, and have good health are three requirements for happiness, though if stupidity is lacking, all is lost.

The whole dream of democracy is to raise the proletariat to the level of stupidity attained by the bourgeoisie.


Gustave Flaubert
Every kind of music is good, except the boring kind. — Rossini

kishnevi

Quote from: Florestan on November 30, 2013, 07:56:58 AM
Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.

John Maynard Keynes


The whole ideology of "free market capitalism" is built on a profound paradox: that the greatest degree of global economic efficiency is attained through allowing the maximum number of local economic inefficiencies: that, for instance, millions of purchasers acting with limited information and choosing among products limited by local circumstances, will together provide the best price and flow of supply vs. demand.

Todd

Quote from: Jeffrey Smith on November 30, 2013, 08:11:53 AMThe whole ideology of "free market capitalism" is built on a profound paradox: that the greatest degree of global economic efficiency is attained through allowing the maximum number of local economic inefficiencies: that, for instance, millions of purchasers acting with limited information and choosing among products limited by local circumstances, will together provide the best price and flow of supply vs. demand.



That's not quite right, particularly as it pertains to information.  Standard competitive models, pure or perfect, assume symmetric information for buyers and sellers.  And this is micro theory more than macro or trade theory.
The universe is change; life is opinion. - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

People would rather believe than know - E.O. Wilson

Propaganda death ensemble - Tom Araya

Florestan

Quote from: Todd on November 30, 2013, 08:19:49 AM
That's not quite right, particularly as it pertains to information.  Standard competitive models, pure or perfect, assume symmetric information for buyers and sellers.

Communism was as pure and perfect a model as one could imagine --- and it failed miserably.  ;D

Purity and perfection have got nothing whatsoever to do with humans and their society.  ;D




Every kind of music is good, except the boring kind. — Rossini

Todd

Quote from: Florestan on November 30, 2013, 08:31:27 AMPurity and perfection have got nothing whatsoever to do with humans and their society.



True, I was just pointing out the shortcoming in the analysis of capitalism.
The universe is change; life is opinion. - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

People would rather believe than know - E.O. Wilson

Propaganda death ensemble - Tom Araya

kishnevi

Quote from: Todd on November 30, 2013, 08:19:49 AM


That's not quite right, particularly as it pertains to information.  Standard competitive models, pure or perfect, assume symmetric information for buyers and sellers.  And this is micro theory more than macro or trade theory.

And it is theory.  There are very few real life scenarios in which both sides have symmetric information--although the Internet is probably making that ideal more attainable.  (Think, for an example most germane to GMG, how much Amazon MP and Ebay plays into our decisions on prices of the recordings we want to buy.)

Todd

Quote from: Florestan on November 30, 2013, 07:56:58 AM
Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.

[etc]

John Maynard Keynes



If you're going to quote Keynes, I think this should be considered:

The time has already come when each country needs a considered national policy about what size of population, whether larger or smaller than at present or the same, is most expedient. And having settled this policy, we must take steps to carry it into operation. The time may arrive a little later when the community as a whole must pay attention to the innate quality as well as to the mere numbers of its future members.


(One can disregard his casual anti-Semitic quotes.)





The universe is change; life is opinion. - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

People would rather believe than know - E.O. Wilson

Propaganda death ensemble - Tom Araya

Todd

Quote from: Jeffrey Smith on November 30, 2013, 08:40:44 AMAnd it is theory.



Of course it is, and all economists will tell you that the models they use are grossly simplified, but it is essential to accurately communicate what is in the models, and what level of economic thinking one is considering.  Micro theory at least has the advantages of being almost universally accepted and sort of testable; macro theory and trade theory, which more closely tie to political-economic ideology, really have neither of those advantages.
The universe is change; life is opinion. - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

People would rather believe than know - E.O. Wilson

Propaganda death ensemble - Tom Araya

Florestan

Quote from: Todd on November 30, 2013, 08:42:36 AM


If you're going to quote Keynes, I think this should be considered:

The time has already come when each country needs a considered national policy about what size of population, whether larger or smaller than at present or the same, is most expedient. And having settled this policy, we must take steps to carry it into operation. The time may arrive a little later when the community as a whole must pay attention to the innate quality as well as to the mere numbers of its future members.


(One can disregard his casual anti-Semitic quotes.)

Well,  AFAIC the above is as stupid and totalitarian as it gets and then some.  :D

Now, the problem with quotes is manifold.

First and foremost, they are almost always taken out of their context. And context is everything. Speaking of Keynes, conservatives love to use "In the long run we are all dead" as proof for keynesian economics being irresponsible and hedonistic. Few of them ever bother to give the full quote, which reads "The long run is a misleading guide to current affairs. In the long run we are all dead." and which means completely the opposite of what they think it to mean. In the same vein, one can selectively quote Adam Smith and thus make him appear the most outspoken apologist of laissez-faire capitalism, which in reality he was clearly opposed to.  ;D

Second, it all depends on who quotes what. We are all psychologically inclined (should I say conditioned?) to quote approvingly that which seems to support our own worldview and to disregard that which doesn't.  :D

And last but not least, the same person can be absolutely right on some issues and completely wrong on others. The difference between an intelligent man and a stupid one is that the intelligent is stupid only now and then, while the stupid is stupid always.  :D

Quote from: Todd on November 30, 2013, 08:47:30 AM
Micro theory at least has the advantages of being almost universally accepted and sort of testable

Exactly so was the theory that the Sun was revolving the Earth, until not that too long ago...  ;D


Every kind of music is good, except the boring kind. — Rossini

Florestan

Good ol' G. K. Chesterton  :D

The true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him.

Literature is a luxury; fiction is a necessity.

I am not absentminded. It is the presence of mind that makes me unaware of everything else.

The way to love anything is to realize that it may be lost.

Without education, we are in a horrible and deadly danger of taking educated people seriously.

There are two ways to get enough. One is to continue to accumulate more and more. The other is to desire less.

The Christian ideal has not been tried and found wanting. It has been found difficult; and left untried.

To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it.

If there were no God, there would be no atheists.

Religious liberty might be supposed to mean that everybody is free to discuss religion. In practice it means that hardly anybody is allowed to mention it.

Impartiality is a pompous name for indifference which is an elegant name for ignorance.

Reason is itself a matter of faith. It is an act of faith to assert that our thoughts have any relation to reality at all.

My country, right or wrong," is a thing that no patriot would think of saying except in a desperate case. It is like saying, "My mother, drunk or sober.

Journalism largely consists in saying "Lord Jones is dead" to people who never knew Lord Jones was alive.

It is terrible to contemplate how few politicians are hanged.

Psychoanalysis is confession without absolution.

If men will not be governed by the Ten Commandments, they shall be governed by the ten thousand commandments.


(to be continued)
Every kind of music is good, except the boring kind. — Rossini

Todd

Quote from: Florestan on November 30, 2013, 09:26:56 AMWell,  AFAIC the above is as stupid and totalitarian as it gets and then some.


My quote was purposive.  Remember that Lord Keynes was an unabashed elitist, and he was an enthusiastic believer in eugenics - to the point of being the director of the British Eugenics Society.  That is very much in line intellectually with his advocacy of select elites - perhaps Oxbridge economist types? - nudging the economy in the desired direction to meet desired ends.

I disagree with your assessment of his "in the long run" quote.  An even longer, better contextualized quote is: But this long run is a misleading guide to current affairs. In the long run we are all dead. Economists set themselves too easy, too useless a task if in tempestuous seasons they can only tell us that when the storm is past the ocean is flat again.  This is used to challenge the traditional notions of market equilibrium and full employment.  Keynes of course argued that an economy could achieve an equilibrium with comparatively high unemployment and lowered output that could last for years, and that it is quite possible for an economy to get stuck in a liquidity trap, where low interest rates, and presumably inflated returns on investment, do not in fact lead to significant increases in productive investment and employment, thus leading to the need for robust, expansionary demand side policies.  But Keynes offers no true long run policy or outlook; policy makers are forever fiddling with monetary and fiscal policy, favoring loose monetary policy and deficit spending in bad times, and tighter monetary policy and surpluses in good times.  (No one ever seems to want the tighter monetary policy and budget surpluses in good times, though.)  This is not the same as irresponsibility and hedonism (I'm not sure what hedonism is in economic terms), but it does deviate from then accepted concepts, and concepts still beloved by some.  Possible future inflation or output distortions are less important than addressing current needs.

To be honest, I'm not sure why this famous quote has not been coopted by people to attack environmentalism.  Since we are all dead in the long run, policy makers should adopt policies to maximize potential economic growth and investment here and now, with the understanding that there are long term environmental costs.  Policy makers could could then parry the inevitable admonitions about the increased environmental/social/economic costs in the long run by stating that the expenditures needed will be economically expansionary when they occur.  I suppose one then could argue about the relative suffering of those actually alive today who are jobless and hungry, and those who do not yet exist.  You know, our children, our children's children, and so on, will bear the costs of our actions, and so forth.
The universe is change; life is opinion. - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

People would rather believe than know - E.O. Wilson

Propaganda death ensemble - Tom Araya

Florestan

Quote from: Todd on November 30, 2013, 10:08:32 AM
My quote was purposive. 

I'm only too aware of that.  :D

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Remember that Lord Keynes was an unabashed elitist, and he was an enthusiastic believer in eugenics - to the point of being the director of the British Eugenics Society.  That is very much in line intellectually with his advocacy of select elites - perhaps Oxbridge economist types? - nudging the economy in the desired direction to meet desired ends.

I didn't know that. Thanks for the info.

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I disagree with your assessment of his "in the long run" quote.  An even longer, better contextualized quote is: But this long run is a misleading guide to current affairs. In the long run we are all dead. Economists set themselves too easy, too useless a task if in tempestuous seasons they can only tell us that when the storm is past the ocean is flat again.  This is used to challenge the traditional notions of market equilibrium and full employment.  Keynes of course argued that an economy could achieve an equilibrium with comparatively high unemployment and lowered output that could last for years, and that it is quite possible for an economy to get stuck in a liquidity trap, where low interest rates, and presumably inflated returns on investment, do not in fact lead to significant increases in productive investment and employment, thus leading to the need for robust, expansionary demand side policies.  But Keynes offers no true long run policy or outlook; policy makers are forever fiddling with monetary and fiscal policy, favoring loose monetary policy and deficit spending in bad times, and tighter monetary policy and surpluses in good times.  (No one ever seems to want the tighter monetary policy and budget surpluses in good times, though.)  This is not the same as irresponsibility and hedonism (I'm not sure what hedonism is in economic terms), but it does deviate from then accepted concepts, and concepts still beloved by some.  Possible future inflation or output distortions are less important than addressing current needs.

I gladly admit that you have a far better knowledge and understanding of theoretical economics than I have. But I am firmly convinced that the crisis of our time is first and foremost moral and spiritual; and that monetary and fiscal policy, deficit spending, budget surpluses and all the like, while useful for economists, financial experts and bankers, are just epiphenomena; the most tightly constructed budget, the most prudent fiscal policy, the most carefully planned deficit spending amounts to nothing if the hearts and souls of men are not attuned to them ---  nay, what I really want to say is actually the reverse: as long the budgets, the fiscal policies and the deficit spendings will continue to ignore the natural, innate and unavoidable propensities of human hearts and souls they will amount to nothing.  ;D

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To be honest, I'm not sure why this famous quote has not been coopted by people to attack environmentalism.  Since we are all dead in the long run, policy makers should adopt policies to maximize potential economic growth and investment here and now, with the understanding that there are long term environmental costs.  Policy makers could could then parry the inevitable admonitions about the increased environmental/social/economic costs in the long run by stating that the expenditures needed will be economically expansionary when they occur.  I suppose one then could argue about the relative suffering of those actually alive today who are jobless and hungry, and those who do not yet exist.  You know, our children, our children's children, and so on, will bear the costs of our actions, and so forth.

Well, the first keynesian was Madame de Pompadour Apres nous, le deluge;D
Every kind of music is good, except the boring kind. — Rossini

North Star

Served them right!
Quote from: Peter Jones. The Spectator, 27/7/02. Quoted at QI Talk Forum
In the course of a 22-year athletic career around 480BC, Theagenes of Thasos was said to have won more than 1,300 victories in various games, and when he died a bronze statue was erected in his honour. According to Pausanias, writing in 170AD, one of Theagenes' enemies took to visiting the statue every night and flogging it, until one night it fell on him and killed him. The man's sons successfully prosecuted the statue for murder; a sentence of exile was passed and the statue was taken out to sea and dumped.

The next year the crops failed, and when the Thasians sent to Delphi for advice the oracle instructed them to bring back their exiles. This they did, but the famine continued. They sent to Delphi again, and the priestess replied "You have forgotten your great Theagenes". The Thasians had no idea how to find the statue, but luckily it was accidentally caught in some fishing nets, brought in, and returned to its original position. It was still being sacrificed to as a god in Pausanias' time, 650 years later.
"Everything has beauty, but not everyone sees it." - Confucius

My photographs on Flickr

Karl Henning

Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot