"Unjustly neglected" - Anyone else fed up of this?

[Ghost of Baron Scarpia]

In Russia, for example, there are no commercial orchestras - all of them have government support. It is indifferent for them economically what to play, but they still play the same music every year. May be the reason is the stagnancy of musicians (and no stimulus to learn new)?

Being beholden to apparatchiks doesn't equate to artistic freedom. Just a different kind of conservatism. I'm sure they want the big name venues serving as showcases for Russian high culture, which means all Tchaikovsky, all the time. The smaller outfits do seem to do some weird repertoire, at least when they record for western labels.

[Dima]

Being beholden to apparatchiks doesn't equate to artistic freedom. Just a different kind of conservatism. I'm sure they want the big name venues serving as showcases for Russian high culture, which means all Tchaikovsky, all the time. The smaller outfits do seem to do some weird repertoire, at least when they record for western labels.

If it was exclusively russian music I could understand this point of view. But the key word is "the same" music. It means the same russian and western music.

[Daverz]

While the term started out with good intentions, it seems that the marketing men have latched on to this term and turned it into one of those cheap "buzz phrases" they add to promotional material regarding certain composers, and I for one am getting fed up with it. I've learnt now that we can't change the world, that everything will stay as it is. We're never going to get a repeat of the Mahler situation, where he rose from relative obscurity to become a centrepiece of the standard repertoire. Those days are long long gone. The standard repertoire is never going to expand beyond where it lies now. Concert programmers will occasionally throw in something or other from certain composers, but it'll just be a gimmick, nothing more. Or they'll throw in a "courtesy" performance of a female composer's work to say they're "doing their bit" for "diversity" or whatever other buzzword they're using nowadays. But that's all those gestures are. Gimmicks. Fake.

My answer is also NO.  What an obnoxiously resentful post.  Oh, poor you, having to give some unknown composer a chance, let alone a female!

[some guy]

In orchestral music, which is almost the same as "music" for too many, the prevailing conservatism means that the "new" music is pretty well assured to be, um, rather on the tepid side. If you go outside the realm of orchestral music, outside concert halls generally, you will find a whole different world, alive, dynamic, exciting. In this world, which takes place in coffee shops and art galleries and repurposed factories, female composers are less likely to be programmed because of their gender and more likely to be programmed because they're good. Here, while the figurative playing field is still not as level as it could be, it is more level than in the standard concert hall world, and, as a consequence, alive, dynamic, and exciting female composers are more likely to be programmed.

And, one side-effect of sexism is that even in the new music world, women have to bring their A game all the time to get a look in, while men can bring their B and C games and still get performed. This means that if there's a woman composer on the program, her music is more likely to be interesting and cool than any of the music by males. (The reason this dynamic doesn't work the same way in the standard concert world is because of that extra layer of conservatism, which mandates that all the "new" music has to be tame and inoffensive. So female composers that you're likely to hear in a concert hall are as likely to be tepid as their male counterparts.)

[PerfectWagnerite]

The term seems a bit redundant to me. Is there such a thing as "justly neglected"?

[Irons]

If I particularly like a work and few others do then I would think it "Unjustly neglected". Why would that cause anyone to be fed up? In my view the 24 preludes for piano by Tsintsadze is a great work, as good if not better then a similar work by Shostakovich. Do I think it unjustly neglected? Yes I do, but I am realistic enough to know it is only an opinion not a fact. Doesn't stop me thinking (or saying) it though.

[Ken B]

It would be much more interesting to discuss the "unjustly celebrated". 

Ah jeez Andre, we already have several Boulez threads.

[Ken B]

The repertoire might shift slowly but it is shifting. My prediction for 5he next 25 years: more Bartok, some Adams, some Glass, more Shostakovich, and some other 20th C symphonies move into the standard orchestral repertoire. More in the chamber and piano realm of course.

[Ghost of Baron Scarpia]

If I particularly like a work and few others do then I would think it "Unjustly neglected". Why would that cause anyone to be fed up? In my view the 24 preludes for piano by Tsintsadze is a great work, as good if not better then a similar work by Shostakovich. Do I think it unjustly neglected? Yes I do, but I am realistic enough to know it is only an opinion not a fact. Doesn't stop me thinking (or saying) it though.

"Unjustly neglected" is so judgmental. What does justice have to do with whether I like a piece of music? Can we agree on "inexplicably neglected."

[Irons]

"Unjustly neglected" is so judgmental. What does justice have to do with whether I like a piece of music? Can we agree on "inexplicably neglected."

Justice in my eyes, but OK. I have written "inexplicably neglected" down so I don't forget.

[Ken B]

Was OJ "inexplicably" acquitted?

[some guy]

No.

[Mirror Image]

I find nothing wrong with the phrase and I'm not offended or bothered if someone wants to use it. There are plenty of other things to be mad about in this world than some silly phrase that may or may not mean something or have some kind of relevance to someone.

[Irons]

I find nothing wrong with the phrase and I'm not offended or bothered if someone wants to use it. There are plenty of other things to be mad about in this world than some silly phrase that may or may not mean something or have some kind of relevance to someone.

100%

[Florestan]

The conservatism of major orchestras is certainly a factor, but how about the conservatism of their committed, subscribing audiences? The day when a concert featuring Brahms' Tragic Overture - Liszt's First Piano Concerto - Beethoven's Fifth will not only not be sold out, but actually boycotted will mark a turning point in music history.

Fwiw, I've cancelled my subscription for the Romanian National Radio SO long ago. 90% of their concerts feature works that I have in much better, often multiple, versions --- while for the remaining 10% I can buy individual tickets which cost me much less than a full-season subscription.

For the chamber music or piano recitals the things are not better either. Most of the time it's the same Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven, Schubert, Schumann and Brahms sonatas, duos, trios, quartets and quintets. Much as I love all these composer's music, there is a limit. Life is too short, and money in too short supply, to focus them only on a two-dozen masterpieces.

If anything, my listening time is imbalanced towards "neglected" composers to the point that I frequently have a bad conscience for focusing too much on them at the expense of the famous ones --- for instance, I've listened to far more Bortkiewicz than Beethoven: go figure that I have listened to the former's complete piano music twice in two different performances, as opposed to never having heard Beethoven's complete piano sonatas even once in a single cycle. I can't even remember the last time I've been listening to Bach JS, yet this week Robert Fuch's serenades gave me much pleasure.

Tbh, the only famous composers whose music I really feel the need to listen to are Mozart, Schubert, Chopin, Tchaikovsky and Rachmaninoff --- anyone else, famous or neglected, is just a matter of whim.

[vandermolen]

I find nothing wrong with the phrase and I'm not offended or bothered if someone wants to use it. There are plenty of other things to be mad about in this world than some silly phrase that may or may not mean something or have some kind of relevance to someone.

+ 1

[Maestro267]

My answer is also NO.  What an obnoxiously resentful post.  Oh, poor you, having to give some unknown composer a chance, let alone a female!

OK OK. No need to throw a hissy fit like that.