Beethoven Symphonies Cycle: Which is your #1 pick?

[kishnevi]

I've been reading outsized praise for Chailly's 'groundbreaking' approach to these works, but when I listen to samples they sound like Toscanini in good sound, nothing particularly new.  Of course, samples are just samples.

It has been a few years since I listened to the Toscanini recordings (in part because of the sound),  but  I don't remember them being similar in approach to the Chailly.  Chailly is very good at bringing out the "dark side", or the emotional undertow more precisely, of the symphonies, and I'm not sure samples would do it justice.  I don't remember which streaming service you use--but can you use it to listen to one of his recordings of a full symphony? Or at least a few movement in toto?  That would get you better idea of what he produces.

[Carnivorous Sheep]

It depends on which samples you listened to. I think Chailly is good to fantastic in 1, 2, 4, 7, 8, but misses the mark with 3 and 9, and has a forgettable 5.


The 8 is the highlight of the cycle for me personally.

[xochitl]

i almost totally dismissed chailly when it came out [apart from the 8th], but re-listened to the whole cycle a few weeks ago and it's won me over.  still think it's overrated as some sort of 'magical reference modern recording', but it's really solid, detailed, breathtakingly played, and fast as all hell. so it's missing the deeper aspects of the music...oh well.

[Karl Henning]

Well, and what if those are Beethoven's markings?  Does the composer himself "miss the deeper aspects of the music"?  0:)

[not edward]

I'm no expert at all, but as far as "big band" Beethoven goes, I have been greatly enjoying the CzPO/Kletzki set recently. The 7th and 8th seem particularly fine to me.

[xochitl]

Well, and what if those are Beethoven's markings?  Does the composer himself "miss the deeper aspects of the music"?  0:)

[Carnivorous Sheep]

I'm no expert at all, but as far as "big band" Beethoven goes, I have been greatly enjoying the CzPO/Kletzki set recently. The 7th and 8th seem particularly fine to me.

The Kletzki 9 is, as often pointed out, a magnificent rendering as well. Easily in my top 3 of the work.

[Wanderer]

Harnoncourt/COE is a perennial favourite; two more I've come to value very highly over the years are Abbado's Rome cycle (the one on DVD) and Paavo Järvi/Deutsche Kammerphilharmonie. These are my top 3 at the moment and I do like (sometimes tremendously) many of the other options already mentioned. We're spoilt for choice.

[Mookalafalas]

misses the mark with 3 and 9, and has a forgettable 5.

  I find his 5 unforgettable. Unforgettably weird. Faster tempos are fine, but mine sounds like there was a recording error.  It's like "The Complete Works of Shakespeare in 2 minutes 30 seconds" fast.  33RPM at 45 fast...

   Anyway, these days my favorite is Szell, but I also like Klemperer a lot, Abbado, Walter, Furtwangler.  And Solti.  Apparently nobody but me likes Solti  

[Pat B]

Apparently nobody but me likes Solti

Quite possible. The first 3rd I bought was his digital recording, which misled me into thinking it wasn't a great piece. I haven't listened to it in a long time, though. It might be interesting to re-listen and check if I like it any better.

I haven't heard any of his others. I will pick up one of his 9ths if I run across a cheap copy.

[Carnivorous Sheep]

  I find his 5 unforgettable. Unforgettably weird. Faster tempos are fine, but mine sounds like there was a recording error.  It's like "The Complete Works of Shakespeare in 2 minutes 30 seconds" fast.  33RPM at 45 fast...

   Anyway, these days my favorite is Szell, but I also like Klemperer a lot, Abbado, Walter, Furtwangler.  And Solti.  Apparently nobody but me likes Solti

Eh, fast Beethoven isn't really a huge novelty, and while Chailly's 5 is on the fast side (like the entire cycle), plenty of other performances have it at comparable speeds. I believe Zinman's, for example, would be faster if he didn't take the third movement repeat, as well as Gardiner's, and I'm fairly certain Immerseel and P. Jarvi's 5ths (on their cycles) are within a few seconds of Chailly's. I could go compare the timings later if I find the time.

I actually really like Solti's 5

[Mookalafalas]

Eh, fast Beethoven isn't really a huge novelty, and while Chailly's 5 is on the fast side (like the entire cycle), plenty of other performances have it at comparable speeds. I believe Zinman's, for example, would be faster if he didn't take the third movement repeat, as well as Gardiner's, and I'm fairly certain Immerseel and P. Jarvi's 5ths (on their cycles) are within a few seconds of Chailly's. I could go compare the timings later if I find the time.

I actually really like Solti's 5

  I just checked my Gardiner and  you are right, 8 seconds faster, and I really like the Gardiner.  Went back and listened to the Chailly again, and although not quite as fast as I remembered it, it still seems rushed to me. Even the initial "Du-Du-Da-Dum"s don't come to a full stop at the end of the phrase.  There is not even a hint of a pause before the next round comes in, like he just can't wait to get through it as fast as possible, and maybe win a prize for speed or something (or meet his meth dealer ).   I just read that he's going to be replacing Barenboim at the helm of one of the great philharmonics, so clearly I'm not much of a judge.  I played his 3 for comparison, and found it pleasantly bracing--although still faster-feeling than I would prefer. 

[Pat B]

  I just checked my Gardiner and  you are right, 8 seconds faster, and I really like the Gardiner.  Went back and listened to the Chailly again, and although not quite as fast as I remembered it, it still seems rushed to me.

I haven't heard the Chailly, but there is definitely a difference between fast and rushed.

[jochanaan]

Way back in 1960 Everest released its Beethoven set with Joseph Krips and the London Symphony.   I bought the set mostly because it was the least expensive available, and I didn't have a lot of money for such things.  Since then I bought CDs by Karajan and some Klemper recordings.  When the Everest set was re-released on CD, I snapped it up because I no longer had a vinyl collection (or a turntable).  The Krips/London Symphony re-issue on CD has pleasant if not cutting-edge sonics.  The performances are pure nostalgia for me.  The CDs may no longer be available, but I think MP3 downloads are still available,  at very cheap prices.

That was my first set too!  A workmanlike if not transcendent set, and at least you can hear all the parts; the woodwinds aren't buried in the sound as in many other recordings.

[Mirror Image]

I'm not a huge fan of Beethoven's symphonies but a cycle that always struck a chord with was Klemperer's set on EMI. Such brooding performances.

[Mookalafalas]

I'm not a huge fan of Beethoven's symphonies but a cycle that always struck a chord with was Klemperer's set on EMI. Such brooding performances.

+1 on the Klemperer. I'm reading his bio now, and playing the symphonies some.  His sound seems to grow and swell, and it keeps getting bigger and bigger...like a geological event, like a new mountain range forming in front of you. 

[Christo]

We're spoilt for choice.

That's it.

[Mookalafalas]

Started actually listening to the Chailly, and rescind my earlier criticism.  I still don't get his five, but I am out of place to criticize his...anything.  It is completely possible that his solid bodily wastes smell like essence of rose petals...

[Karl Henning]

I confess, I have my doubts.

[Pat B]

I confess, I have my doubts.

There's only one way to find out.