Collections and Sub-Collections

Started by Gurn Blanston, February 02, 2013, 02:16:26 PM

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Gurn Blanston

Pretty much everyone here, to some degree, is a collector of music. I suppose that there are those who are here simply for the stimulating company or the intellectual discussion, but in the main, we are collectors.

What I am curious about are the little sub-collections that grow up inside the more mainstream parts. The special interest, so to say.

For example;

I delight in having possibly 2 or 3 (modern and period instruments most likely) versions of everything Beethoven composed. I really like his music and so having all of it seemed reasonable enough a goal. However, within that group, I am well-known to also have nearly 100 versions of the 9th Symphony. I don't have 100 versions of everything else Beethoven wrote, just that.

I suppose it is specialty enough to have all of Haydn's music on period instruments. But I also have every keyboard sonatas and trios disk I could ever find on period keyboards. There are, amazingly, dozens of them!

Then, more diversely, I collect (not duplicate though) keyboard sonatas on period instruments from the time period 1740 to 1830.  I have used William Newman's great book The Sonata in the Classic Period as a guide and amassed great quantities of composers who are otherwise unrepresented in my collection. Very interesting music, too. :)

So, my question, what sorts of oddments have you fastened onto yourself?  Share it with us here, maybe it will give ideas for specializing rather than just grabbing any intriguing sounding disk that comes along. Either way can be a voyage of discovery, but the focus could also be a help.   :)

8)
Visit my Haydn blog: HaydnSeek

Haydn: that genius of vulgar music who induces an inordinate thirst for beer - Mily Balakirev (1860)

aukhawk

#1
I'm of the belief that no music-lover really needs more than three different recordings of any single work.

That said, I don't entirely practice what I preach - I have fairly big collections of Bach's Cello Suites, and of three symphonies which are interestingly (like Beethoven's 9th) all 'last' symphonies - Sibelius 7, Shostakovitch 15, Mahler 9.
But in general I say it's better to limit the collecting instinct, and instead focus on the music you really like.

Brian

#2
Quote from: Gurn Blanston on February 02, 2013, 02:16:26 PM
So, my question, what sorts of oddments have you fastened onto yourself?

"Nitwit! Blubber! Oddment! Tweak!" - Albus Dumbledore

I have almost literally every Beethoven symphony cycle released since 2000: Barenboim, Abbado, Nelson, Zweden, Haitink/LSO, Immerseel, Vanska, P. Jarvi, Chailly. If I don't have a set, it's either because it's available to me on Naxos Music Library (Dausgaard, Skrowaczewski, Rattle, Bruggen II, Krivine) or because of a combination of extreme recency and my own relative poverty (Thielemann, which is actually the only one I know I can't access at the moment).

I have the complete recordings of the Pavel Haas Quartet and almost everything by Yevgeny Sudbin and Alexandre Tharaud. I'll soon be ordering the complete Byron Janis and William Kapell boxes on GMG's recommendation, having little and no experience, respectively, with those performers. Brilliant's box sets made it all too easy to acquire the complete Rachmaninov and Brahms; ditto Hyperion and Chopin.

I have probably 9-10 cycles of Sibelius symphonies.

EDIT: And thirteen Gaspards de la nuit.

John Copeland

Quote from: aukhawk on February 02, 2013, 03:02:22 PM
I'm of the belief that no music-lover really needs more than three different recordings of any single work.

That said, I don't entirely practice what I preach - I have fairly big collections of Bach's Cello Suites, and of three symphonies which are interestingly (like Beethoven's 9th) all 'last' symphonies - Sibelius 7, Shostakovitch 15, Mahler 9.
But in general I say it's better to limit the collecting instinct, and instead focus on the music you really like.

I agree with aukhawk, but sometimes it is darned difficult to shake off the collector bug.  I do not have much Bach, shame on me, but a few years back I bought Torlief Thedeen doing Bachs Cello suites.  I was taken by it, and began the 'sub-collecting' of it over time, and now I can never make up my mind which ones I want to play - Starker, Rostropovich, Thedeen, Isserlis, Casals...etc.  Then, also for me, Tchaikovskys 4rth, which for a time I ravenously devoured by every conductor and orchestra I could find - all because I heard an mp3 performance somewhere along the line, was taken by it, then had to sift through plenty of Tchaikovsky to find out if I had it, or as close as...I didn't, I still haven't found it.  When the strings about 3 minutes into that work begin their dynamic descent, the mp3 by unknown had those violins positively crying and gnashing their guts in an explosive, heartbreaking way...I no longer have that mp3, but  did a jolly fine collection of Tchaikovskys 4rth just to find the one that hit me...it might have been Ozawa, that's the closest I've found, but I am not sure.  Before that, after crying to Mahlers 10th by Kubelik and the BRSO (he has the violins crying too!), I sought as many Mahler 10ths as I could, seeking who brought out the most intensity in that huge cry of the broken heart about 17 - 20 mins into the Adagio.  Nah.  Just Kubelik can do it the way I like it.
Sometimes I hear something which has such a tremendous effect on me that I pull out all the stops to get it, and anything else to go along with it in as short a time as possible.  This is a kind of 'sub-collecting' frenzy - notably it happened to me with Havergal Brian, Ture Ransgtrom, Duttileux, Sallinen and...of course by far and away...Hans Rott.
It is interesting to describe us as collectors.  I think while we are 'collecting' we do not know we are in the process of collecting, and we end up with a growing 'collection' which is incidental because all we were doing was buying CD's with music that interests us...we don't know we're collecting until things get so unwieldy that we have to 'sort' our collections...and therein we find out sub-collections!

Gurn Blanston

Quote from: aukhawk on February 02, 2013, 03:02:22 PM
I'm of the belief that no music-lover really needs more than three different recordings of any single work.

That said, I don't entirely practice what I preach - I have fairly big collections of Bach's Cello Suites, and of three symphonies which are interestingly (like Beethoven's 9th) all 'last' symphonies - Sibelius 7, Shostakovitch 15, Mahler 9.
But in general I say it's better to limit the collecting instinct, and instead focus on the music you really like.

I love whatever can make an obviously moral man cross the line. Bless you Bach! And 'last symphonies' too. :D

Quote from: Brian on February 02, 2013, 03:22:50 PM
"Nitwit! Blubber! Oddment! Tweak!" - Albus Dumbledore

I have almost literally every Beethoven symphony cycle released since 2000: Barenboim, Abbado, Nelson, Zweden, Haitink/LSO, Immerseel, Vanska, P. Jarvi, Chailly. If I don't have a set, it's either because it's available to me on Naxos Music Library (Dausgaard, Skrowaczewski, Rattle, Bruggen II, Krivine) or because of a combination of extreme recency and my own relative poverty (Thielemann, which is actually the only one I know I can't access at the moment).

I have the complete recordings of the Pavel Haas Quartet and almost everything by Yevgeny Sudbin and Alexandre Tharaud. I'll soon be ordering the complete Byron Janis and William Kapell boxes on GMG's recommendation, having little and no experience, respectively, with those performers. Brilliant's box sets made it all too easy to acquire the complete Rachmaninov and Brahms; ditto Hyperion and Chopin.

I have probably 9-10 cycles of Sibelius symphonies.

EDIT: And thirteen Gaspards de la nuit.

That's an approach I haven't tried yet, Brian; performer's discographies. I hae damned near everything that L'Archibudelli recorded, but that isn't so much because it's them (except that quality is assured) as it is that they have recorded a whole lot of music that interests me. :)

Quote from: Scots John on February 02, 2013, 03:31:16 PM
I agree with aukhawk, but sometimes it is darned difficult to shake off the collector bug.  I do not have much Bach, shame on me, but a few years back I bought Torlief Thedeen doing Bachs Cello suites.  I was taken by it, and began the 'sub-collecting' of it over time, and now I can never make up my mind which ones I want to play - Starker, Rostropovich, Thedeen, Isserlis, Casals...etc.  Then, also for me, Tchaikovskys 4rth, which for a time I ravenously devoured by every conductor and orchestra I could find - all because I heard an mp3 performance somewhere along the line, was taken by it, then had to sift through plenty of Tchaikovsky to find out if I had it, or as close as...I didn't, I still haven't found it.  When the strings about 3 minutes into that work begin their dynamic descent, the mp3 by unknown had those violins positively crying and gnashing their guts in an explosive, heartbreaking way...I no longer have that mp3, but  did a jolly fine collection of Tchaikovskys 4rth just to find the one that hit me...it might have been Ozawa, that's the closest I've found, but I am not sure.  Before that, after crying to Mahlers 10th by Kubelik and the BRSO (he has the violins crying too!), I sought as many Mahler 10ths as I could, seeking who brought out the most intensity in that huge cry of the broken heart about 17 - 20 mins into the Adagio.  Nah.  Just Kubelik can do it the way I like it.
Sometimes I hear something which has such a tremendous effect on me that I pull out all the stops to get it, and anything else to go along with it in as short a time as possible.  This is a kind of 'sub-collecting' frenzy - notably it happened to me with Havergal Brian, Ture Ransgtrom, Duttileux, Sallinen and...of course by far and away...Hans Rott.
It is interesting to describe us as collectors.  I think while we are 'collecting' we do not know we are in the process of collecting, and we end up with a growing 'collection' which is incidental because all we were doing was buying CD's with music that interests us...we don't know we're collecting until things get so unwieldy that we have to 'sort' our collections...and therein we find out sub-collections

Yes, I try not to think of myself as a collector either; such a base idea really. And yet, de facto, if you collect, you are a collector. I know exactly what you mean about getting drawn in to some work and going for it that way. That's how I got started with 9ths. And 18th century Austrian sacred music too, another sub-collection that I forgot to mention earlier. I suppose that my real problem is that if something intrigues me, for whatever reason, and I make the mistake of 'looking into' the history of it, just a taste of course, then I'm stuck.  :-\

8)
Visit my Haydn blog: HaydnSeek

Haydn: that genius of vulgar music who induces an inordinate thirst for beer - Mily Balakirev (1860)

Todd

Quote from: Gurn Blanston on February 02, 2013, 02:16:26 PMSo, my question, what sorts of oddments have you fastened onto yourself?



This may surprise some, but I've grown rather fond of Beethoven piano sonata cycles.  When FFG's V3 arrives, that will make seventy sets in my collection.  (Okay, 68 for those who might discount Emil Gilels and Walter Gieseking for being incomplete.)

I've also taken a shine to Mozart piano sonata cycles (around twenty), Debussy Preludes (around two dozen, I think), Mahler symphonies (seventeen complete sets, I don't know how many more Firsts, Fourths, Sixths, and Ninths).  Bartok's Concerto for Orchestra was my first obsession.  I don't know how many recordings I have now, but at one point it was at around thirty.  I've also got ten sets of his string quartets.  A couple years ago I went on a Cristobal de Morales bender.  I still have cravings.  I've recently taken up collecting sets of Biber's Mystery Sonatas - I'm at eight or nine now, and plan on buying one every month or so until I can find no more.

On the artist front, I've got complete or near complete collections from:

Robert Casadesus
Herbert Schuch
Michael Endres
Michel Block (all I can find, at any rate, save a Liszt transcriptions disc)
Yukio Yokoyama (not including his new complete Chopin recordings)
Arcadi Volodos
Alfred Cortot
Samson Francois
Clara Haskil
Annie Fischer
Zehetmair Quartet
Paavel Haas Quartet
Andras Schiff (almost there)
Byron Janis (well, I will later this year)
Esteban Sanchez
Maurizio Pollini
Hilary Hahn


I've also gone out of my way to get as many recordings as possible from the below artists, and hope that one day there entire output is readily available:

Eric Heidsieck
Russell Sherman
Andrea Lucchesini
Budapest Quartet
Prazak Quartet
Panocha Quartet
Christian Ferras
Paul McCreesh
Carl Schuricht
Michel Beroff
Anton Kuerti
Rudolf Firkusny
Walter Gieseking
Kun Woo Paik
Rafael Kubelik
Carlo Maria Giulini


In other words, I often go through bursts of buying, focusing on an artist or specific repertoire until sated. 
The universe is change; life is opinion. - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

People would rather believe than know - E.O. Wilson

Propaganda death ensemble - Tom Araya

Gurn Blanston

All that, plus a regular collection of standard rep (I've read lots of your posts over the years). Man! Some of that I knew about (the Beethoven and Mozart clearly) and some I didn't (the symphonies mainly, don't see you talking about those much). I always associated you with piano music in general, I guess. And it looks like you have a history of the pianist thing going on. Not necessarily the most famous, but seemingly the best. Thanks for sharing that, Todd. :)

8)
Visit my Haydn blog: HaydnSeek

Haydn: that genius of vulgar music who induces an inordinate thirst for beer - Mily Balakirev (1860)

Todd

Quote from: Gurn Blanston on February 02, 2013, 05:22:15 PMAll that, plus a regular collection of standard rep




Space is at a premium in my stereo room, let me put it that way.

The universe is change; life is opinion. - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

People would rather believe than know - E.O. Wilson

Propaganda death ensemble - Tom Araya

Mirror Image

A simple question that requires a much more complicated answer on my part. I shall ponder this...

mc ukrneal

Since 95% of my music is not duplicates, I am afraid I will be somewhat boring. I only buy duplicates (purposely) of a few pieces: Puccini's La Boheme, Mozart's Marriage of Figaro, Prokofiev's Alexander Nevsky, Beethoven's sonata 30 (op 109), Tchaikovsky's 5th, and Elgar's Spirit of England (only 3 versions of this though!). The first two I rarely buy these days - I know which I like most and all the best alternatives have not moved me (though many of them are quite worthy in their own right), which leaves Prokofiev, Beethoven and Tchaikovsky.

I was thinking of creating a Thaikovsky 5 thread just so that I could listen to various alternatives and comment on them. It is one of those rare pieces that I seem never to tire of.  I find it an odd symphony (in terms of collecting). Most people focus in on a few like Mravinsky, Bernstein, Gatti, etc. But it is actually hard to find someone who has heard more than a dozen say (maybe you'll come out now!?!), let alone two dozen. I mean, compare to Mahler. There are at least a dozen people on these boards who have heard 30-40+ versions (and maybe many more) of a given symphony. I find it equally frustrating when I read reviews, where sometimes I am dismayed when I see the recommendations (makes me think they haven't a clue).

And then we have some conducters who have done multiple versions, but do you know I am having huge difficulty finding anyone who has reviewed all (or many) of the versions by one conductor? Abbado did three versions - which is most successful (or are they all more or less the same)? Karajan has done at least 5 versions: 3 with the BPO (2 CD, 1 DVD), 1 with VPO, and 1 with Philharmonia. But which one is the one to go for (maybe there is a Karajan fan who knows).  Kletzki did at least two versions, neither of which I can find on disc. Mravinsky did at least 11 according to the info I can find (11!!), and figuring our which is which is not so simple (mistakes on the discs themselves are huge, often listing wrong performance dates!). Stokowski did several.  Monteux, Jansons, Celibadache, Muti, Ormandy, Barbirolli, Rozhdestvensky, Mengelberg, Svetlanov, and many more did at least 2 each! How many have heard both versions of a conductor, let alone all of them for each.

I was even thinking of doing a Blind Listening for this symphony, but don't feel it is ideal as there is an elephant in the room (Mravinsky). So hopefully when I get more time, I will start that thread and start giving feedback.
Be kind to your fellow posters!!

petrarch

Aside from, like everyone else, seeking recordings and releases from the composers and performers I enjoy, I also collect by label. I have found this to be a very rewarding way to get exposure to composers, performers and even performances that would otherwise escape one's notice.
//p
The music collection.
The hi-fi system: Esoteric X-03SE -> Pathos Logos -> Analysis Audio Amphitryon.
A view of the whole

Mirror Image

Quote from: petrarch on February 03, 2013, 07:43:42 AMI also collect by label. I have found this to be a very rewarding way to get exposure to composers, performers and even performances that would otherwise escape one's notice.

I personally could never do this because I like to have an idea of what I'm buying into. I don't like going into a recording completely in the dark, which is why I usually scour the internet for reviews, audio samples, etc.

springrite

Can a collection of moderate size (less than 3000) have sub-collections?

Well, OK, maybe I do try to have all recordings by artists I have dated. Does that count?

The closest thing I have is probably more than 20 Goldbergs, which is still only a fraction of the available Goldbergs out there.
Do what I must do, and let what must happen happen.

petrarch

Quote from: Mirror Image on February 03, 2013, 07:51:46 AM
I personally could never do this because I like to have an idea of what I'm buying into. I don't like going into a recording completely in the dark, which is why I usually scour the internet for reviews, audio samples, etc.

Come to think of it, I do the same wrt audio samples; the labels I "collect" are by no means complete collections, just the perhaps ~80% or more that passed examination (some labels are that consistent).
//p
The music collection.
The hi-fi system: Esoteric X-03SE -> Pathos Logos -> Analysis Audio Amphitryon.
A view of the whole

Sergeant Rock

My two major sub-collections: Piano Babes and Violin Babes  8)  with Hélène Grimaud and Anne-Sophie Mutter being the two I'm most obsessive about, owning everything they've recorded.

Sarge
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

Gurn Blanston

Quote from: mc ukrneal on February 03, 2013, 12:38:01 AM
Since 95% of my music is not duplicates, I am afraid I will be somewhat boring. I only buy duplicates (purposely) of a few pieces: Puccini's La Boheme, Mozart's Marriage of Figaro, Prokofiev's Alexander Nevsky, Beethoven's sonata 30 (op 109), Tchaikovsky's 5th, and Elgar's Spirit of England (only 3 versions of this though!). The first two I rarely buy these days - I know which I like most and all the best alternatives have not moved me (though many of them are quite worthy in their own right), which leaves Prokofiev, Beethoven and Tchaikovsky.

I was thinking of creating a Thaikovsky 5 thread just so that I could listen to various alternatives and comment on them. It is one of those rare pieces that I seem never to tire of.  I find it an odd symphony (in terms of collecting). Most people focus in on a few like Mravinsky, Bernstein, Gatti, etc. But it is actually hard to find someone who has heard more than a dozen say (maybe you'll come out now!?!), let alone two dozen. I mean, compare to Mahler. There are at least a dozen people on these boards who have heard 30-40+ versions (and maybe many more) of a given symphony. I find it equally frustrating when I read reviews, where sometimes I am dismayed when I see the recommendations (makes me think they haven't a clue).

And then we have some conducters who have done multiple versions, but do you know I am having huge difficulty finding anyone who has reviewed all (or many) of the versions by one conductor? Abbado did three versions - which is most successful (or are they all more or less the same)? Karajan has done at least 5 versions: 3 with the BPO (2 CD, 1 DVD), 1 with VPO, and 1 with Philharmonia. But which one is the one to go for (maybe there is a Karajan fan who knows).  Kletzki did at least two versions, neither of which I can find on disc. Mravinsky did at least 11 according to the info I can find (11!!), and figuring our which is which is not so simple (mistakes on the discs themselves are huge, often listing wrong performance dates!). Stokowski did several.  Monteux, Jansons, Celibadache, Muti, Ormandy, Barbirolli, Rozhdestvensky, Mengelberg, Svetlanov, and many more did at least 2 each! How many have heard both versions of a conductor, let alone all of them for each.

I was even thinking of doing a Blind Listening for this symphony, but don't feel it is ideal as there is an elephant in the room (Mravinsky). So hopefully when I get more time, I will start that thread and start giving feedback.

Yes, Neal but you don't have to have any duplicates at all to qualify a sub-collection. My 'Classical Keyboard Sonatas' only has ones I couldn't avoid, or else ones on, say clavichord and harpsichord. I think your idea of collecting all the different versions of something by a single conductor can be quite interesting. You can see how his ideas changed over time. I see that done with various pianists doing the same repertoire at different times in their lives, comes out quite differently with age. :)

8)
Visit my Haydn blog: HaydnSeek

Haydn: that genius of vulgar music who induces an inordinate thirst for beer - Mily Balakirev (1860)

Sergeant Rock

Quote from: mc ukrneal on February 03, 2013, 12:38:01 AM
I was thinking of creating a Thaikovsky 5 thread just so that I could listen to various alternatives and comment on them...

Interesting. The Fifth is one Tchaikovsky symphony I've not found an ideal, or near ideal recording of. With the Fourth there is Szell/LSO; with the Sixth Lenny DG and Franck. I have Mravinsky but even he doesn't satisfy completely.

Sarge
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

Gurn Blanston

Quote from: petrarch on February 03, 2013, 07:43:42 AM
Aside from, like everyone else, seeking recordings and releases from the composers and performers I enjoy, I also collect by label. I have found this to be a very rewarding way to get exposure to composers, performers and even performances that would otherwise escape one's notice.

Now there's something I hadn't thought of! When I first started listening to Classical music, I began with a genre I really liked (violin concertos) and no knowledge of anything else, and ended up with everything from Bach to Bartok. It was a great way to introduce myself to composers' styles and ideas. Kind of works the same way as labels, since you don't know what you're gonna get. I just don't think I would start with, oh, EMI for example. :D

8)
Visit my Haydn blog: HaydnSeek

Haydn: that genius of vulgar music who induces an inordinate thirst for beer - Mily Balakirev (1860)

Gurn Blanston

Quote from: Sergeant Rock on February 03, 2013, 08:31:53 AM
My two major sub-collections: Piano Babes and Violin Babes  8)  with Hélène Grimaud and Anne-Sophie Mutter being the two I'm most obsessive about, owning everything they've recorded.

Sarge

Ahem... and Ring Cycles and Mahler Symphonies.....  :D

8)
Visit my Haydn blog: HaydnSeek

Haydn: that genius of vulgar music who induces an inordinate thirst for beer - Mily Balakirev (1860)

springrite

Quote from: Gurn Blanston on February 03, 2013, 08:40:29 AM
Ahem... and Ring Cycles and Mahler Symphonies.....  :D

8)

The difference between intentional (collecting) and unintentional (ending up with)...
Do what I must do, and let what must happen happen.