Benjamin Britten

Started by Boris_G, July 12, 2007, 10:14:21 PM

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Pohjolas Daughter

Quote from: Irons on June 24, 2021, 12:03:41 AM
Not so much knowledge but more perseverance, PD. But thanks for saying.

A wild and wonderful walk along the beach from Aldeburgh to Thorpeness. We are booked up in August, I will take some pics and post on favourite walks thread.

I will check out the link on the bird thread you posted this afternoon.
Looking forward to seeing them.  Hope that you have a wonderful visit...and a nice side trip to the record and book shop.  ;)

PD
Pohjolas Daughter

VonStupp

I recently spent a few weeks with Britten's non-orchestrated choral music.

I feel everyone should use Britten himself as a solid start to any of his music, as he was as fine a conductor as a composer. But the UK traditions of choral music have never been shared by my west-of-the-Atlantic sensibilities, even if that is how Britten heard his music. Much of his choral music was written with boy trebles in mind, but it is a style I have never warmed to, nor some of the older recording from Guest, Malcolm, and Halsey. So I recently sought out Spicer on Chandos, whose Finzi Singers uses mixed adult singers. Spicer blends his alto section with female and male altos together, another British tradition not seen in the US too often, especially in mixed choir settings, but I love that British chamber choirs are so characterful.

I like that The Finzi Singers are freer with their vibrato, although judiciously light most of the time, and again a contrast to cathedral choristers towards my personal preferences. Paul Spicer is strong in his scholarship of Britten and it is apparent throughout, although I would have liked to hear Britten's rarer part-songs. The oft-used soprano soloist Carys Lane was the highlight of all three volumes.

I found Volume 1 the strongest (his 4 hymns, Gloriana, A.M.D.G, and Rejoice in the Lamb), with Spicer's leading of Hymn to St. Cecilia perhaps rising towards the top for me. The liturgical music of Volume 2 was less enthralling for me, but I am also less familiar with that music. I did very much like the 'nordic' pronunciations used in A Ceremony of Carols, as it really set their performance apart from the scads of recordings available. The Finzi Singers heavier vibrato in Volume 3's secular music was apparent, and not always welcome, but Advance Democracy was a hoot, and A Boy Was Born was much more engaging to my ears than when I heard it last from Polyphony on Hyperion .

All in all, a strong set of Britten's choral music, although, any introduction should be Britten himself, as that was his intended sound world. This Chandos recording just pushed the button of my preferences in choral sounds. The programming is almost identical to The Sixteen with Harry Christophers.

   
"All the good music has already been written by people with wigs and stuff."

Pohjolas Daughter

Recent listening:  his "Suite for Cello No. 1" with Matt Haimovitz (see current listening thread).  Enjoyed it.   :) Been quite a while since I had visited it.

PD
Pohjolas Daughter

Irons

Quote from: VonStupp on November 21, 2021, 07:24:16 AM
I recently spent a few weeks with Britten's non-orchestrated choral music.

I feel everyone should use Britten himself as a solid start to any of his music, as he was as fine a conductor as a composer. But the UK traditions of choral music have never been shared by my west-of-the-Atlantic sensibilities, even if that is how Britten heard his music. Much of his choral music was written with boy trebles in mind, but it is a style I have never warmed to, nor some of the older recording from Guest, Malcolm, and Halsey. So I recently sought out Spicer on Chandos, whose Finzi Singers uses mixed adult singers. Spicer blends his alto section with female and male altos together, another British tradition not seen in the US too often, especially in mixed choir settings, but I love that British chamber choirs are so characterful.

I like that The Finzi Singers are freer with their vibrato, although judiciously light most of the time, and again a contrast to cathedral choristers towards my personal preferences. Paul Spicer is strong in his scholarship of Britten and it is apparent throughout, although I would have liked to hear Britten's rarer part-songs. The oft-used soprano soloist Carys Lane was the highlight of all three volumes.

I found Volume 1 the strongest (his 4 hymns, Gloriana, A.M.D.G, and Rejoice in the Lamb), with Spicer's leading of Hymn to St. Cecilia perhaps rising towards the top for me. The liturgical music of Volume 2 was less enthralling for me, but I am also less familiar with that music. I did very much like the 'nordic' pronunciations used in A Ceremony of Carols, as it really set their performance apart from the scads of recordings available. The Finzi Singers heavier vibrato in Volume 3's secular music was apparent, and not always welcome, but Advance Democracy was a hoot, and A Boy Was Born was much more engaging to my ears than when I heard it last from Polyphony on Hyperion .

All in all, a strong set of Britten's choral music, although, any introduction should be Britten himself, as that was his intended sound world. This Chandos recording just pushed the button of my preferences in choral sounds. The programming is almost identical to The Sixteen with Harry Christophers.

   

Most interesting.
You must have a very good opinion of yourself to write a symphony - John Ireland.

I opened the door people rushed through and I was left holding the knob - Bo Diddley.

Roasted Swan

Quote from: VonStupp on November 21, 2021, 07:24:16 AM
I recently spent a few weeks with Britten's non-orchestrated choral music.

I feel everyone should use Britten himself as a solid start to any of his music, as he was as fine a conductor as a composer. But the UK traditions of choral music have never been shared by my west-of-the-Atlantic sensibilities, even if that is how Britten heard his music. Much of his choral music was written with boy trebles in mind, but it is a style I have never warmed to, nor some of the older recording from Guest, Malcolm, and Halsey. So I recently sought out Spicer on Chandos, whose Finzi Singers uses mixed adult singers. Spicer blends his alto section with female and male altos together, another British tradition not seen in the US too often, especially in mixed choir settings, but I love that British chamber choirs are so characterful.

I like that The Finzi Singers are freer with their vibrato, although judiciously light most of the time, and again a contrast to cathedral choristers towards my personal preferences. Paul Spicer is strong in his scholarship of Britten and it is apparent throughout, although I would have liked to hear Britten's rarer part-songs. The oft-used soprano soloist Carys Lane was the highlight of all three volumes.

I found Volume 1 the strongest (his 4 hymns, Gloriana, A.M.D.G, and Rejoice in the Lamb), with Spicer's leading of Hymn to St. Cecilia perhaps rising towards the top for me. The liturgical music of Volume 2 was less enthralling for me, but I am also less familiar with that music. I did very much like the 'nordic' pronunciations used in A Ceremony of Carols, as it really set their performance apart from the scads of recordings available. The Finzi Singers heavier vibrato in Volume 3's secular music was apparent, and not always welcome, but Advance Democracy was a hoot, and A Boy Was Born was much more engaging to my ears than when I heard it last from Polyphony on Hyperion .

All in all, a strong set of Britten's choral music, although, any introduction should be Britten himself, as that was his intended sound world. This Chandos recording just pushed the button of my preferences in choral sounds. The programming is almost identical to The Sixteen with Harry Christophers.

   

Excellent post - thankyou for sharing your thoughts.  I must admit that there is that timbral "edge" to boy trebles' voices that is so unique that I am hard-wired to hearing it.  That said, for all kinds of reasons - social as well as musical I think it right and proper that within church/cathedral settings girls/women should be given an equal opportunity.  I do wonder looking into the future whether the "traditional" boys & men choir will become something of a historical quirk and that "performance practice" in the future will feature the recreation of such choirs.  But of course, once they are lost they will never happen again because you cannot train young children over night - the tradition and continuity is the key.  Possibly of all composers Britten is the one who most had that sound ingrained in his inner ear.  I must admit I'm not that keen generally with Spicer's Finzi Singers recordings.  I find them technically polished but just a tad emotionally detached - for a mixed voice alternative I personally prefer The Sixteen performances.

VonStupp

Quote from: Roasted Swan on November 22, 2021, 01:09:25 AM
Excellent post - thankyou for sharing your thoughts.  I must admit that there is that timbral "edge" to boy trebles' voices that is so unique that I am hard-wired to hearing it.  That said, for all kinds of reasons - social as well as musical I think it right and proper that within church/cathedral settings girls/women should be given an equal opportunity.  I do wonder looking into the future whether the "traditional" boys & men choir will become something of a historical quirk and that "performance practice" in the future will feature the recreation of such choirs.  But of course, once they are lost they will never happen again because you cannot train young children over night - the tradition and continuity is the key.  Possibly of all composers Britten is the one who most had that sound ingrained in his inner ear.  I must admit I'm not that keen generally with Spicer's Finzi Singers recordings.  I find them technically polished but just a tad emotionally detached - for a mixed voice alternative I personally prefer The Sixteen performances.

And I found the 2nd volume of liturgical and sacred music wanting from them. I am wondering if I miss the cathedral-type sound for those specific works, since the Finzi Singers give 'secular'-sounding, concert hall presentations here. It is interesting the wide range of timbres a choir can give.

VS
"All the good music has already been written by people with wigs and stuff."

VonStupp

Quote from: Roasted Swan on November 22, 2021, 01:09:25 AM
I must admit that there is that timbral "edge" to boy trebles' voices that is so unique that I am hard-wired to hearing it.  That said, for all kinds of reasons - social as well as musical I think it right and proper that within church/cathedral settings girls/women should be given an equal opportunity.  I do wonder looking into the future whether the "traditional" boys & men choir will become something of a historical quirk and that "performance practice" in the future will feature the recreation of such choirs.  But of course, once they are lost they will never happen again because you cannot train young children over night - the tradition and continuity is the key.

It is an interesting postulation of performance practice I hadn't thought of. In the US, there is (or was) a tiny, secular tradition of boy's choirs, not associated with the church. Children's choirs seem to be more popular, with multi-tiered training schools in some cases, but rarely does that extend past male voice changes.

VS
"All the good music has already been written by people with wigs and stuff."

MusicTurner

#607
Good to hear about the Red House museum & visit options, nice to know.

Regarding the Cello Suites, I had the possibility to get the early Wispelwey recording (1992) recently very cheaply, but I find it thoroughly bland, compared to for example Mørk on EMI, so won't be keeping it. Maybe others feel differently. Wispelwey recorded them later too, also in 2001. I also have some with Rostropovitch/Decca & Brilliant, Haimowitz/DG and Lloyd-Webber/ASV, and heard Tedeen/BIS, where the cello sound is very special - overall, that's enough for me.

https://www.discogs.com/release/6406945-Britten-Pieter-Wispelwey-The-Three-Suites-For-Cello-Solo

Pohjolas Daughter

Quote from: MusicTurner on December 08, 2021, 05:51:40 AM
Good to hear about the Red House museum & visit options, nice to know.

Regarding the Cello Suites, I had the possibility to get the early Wispelwey recording (1992) recently very cheaply, but I find it thoroughly bland, compared to for example Mørk on EMI, so won't be keeping it. Maybe others feel differently. Wispelwey recorded them later too, also in 2001. I also have some with Rostropovitch/Decca & Brilliant, Haimowitz/DG and Lloyd-Webber/ASV, and heard Tedeen/BIS, where the cello sound is very special - overall, that's enough for me.

https://www.discogs.com/release/6406945-Britten-Pieter-Wispelwey-The-Three-Suites-For-Cello-Solo
I love this CD with Rostropovich.  Have you heard these recordings MT?



PD
Pohjolas Daughter

MusicTurner

#609
Quote from: Pohjolas Daughter on December 08, 2021, 07:30:13 AM
I love this CD with Rostropovich.  Have you heard these recordings MT?



PD

I'm sure those are very, very fine ... Obviously, the two artists knew each other well. What I've got of Britten is just accumulations, and then keeping the best of that - not the result of a lot of comparisons. I do have the Cello Sonata with Rostropovich & Britten, on Decca, and the Cello Symphony, but only with other performers ... it's not a work I know that well, however - maybe I'll listen more to it in the coming days ...

I also have Rostropovitch/Rozhdestvensky in that superb 1st Cello Concerto by Shostakovitch, but on Brilliant Classics, and a Rostropovich/D.Oistrakh conducting (mono?, 1965), on an obscure CD label, Pipeline. One of the best concertos of the 20th century, IMO.

Pohjolas Daughter

Quote from: MusicTurner on December 08, 2021, 08:00:49 AM
I'm sure those are very, very fine ... Obviously, the two artists knew each other well. What I've got of Britten is just accumulations, and then keeping the best of that - not the result of a lot of comparisons. I do have the Cello Sonata with Rostropovich & Britten, on Decca, and the Cello Symphony, but only with other performers ... it's not a work I know that well, however - maybe I'll listen more to it in the coming days ...

I also have Rostropovitch/Rozhdestvensky in that superb 1st Cello Concerto by Shostakovitch, but on Brilliant Classics, and a Rostropovich/D.Oistrakh conducting (mono?, 1965), on an obscure CD label, Pipeline. One of the best concertos of the 20th century, IMO.
I should revisit Britten's Cello Symphony as it's been a while since I have heard it.  And I agree with you, that Shostakovich cello concerto is one of my all-time favorites!  :)

So, am I understanding you correctly MT?  That D. Oistrakh conducted Rostropovich playing Shostakovich's first cello concerto?

PD
Pohjolas Daughter

Mirror Image

Quote from: Pohjolas Daughter on December 08, 2021, 08:36:50 AM
I should revisit Britten's Cello Symphony as it's been a while since I have heard it.  And I agree with you, that Shostakovich cello concerto is one of my all-time favorites!  :)

PD

The Cello Symphony is a gnarly work, but it is marvelous!

MusicTurner

#612
Quote from: Pohjolas Daughter on December 08, 2021, 08:36:50 AM
I should revisit Britten's Cello Symphony as it's been a while since I have heard it.  And I agree with you, that Shostakovich cello concerto is one of my all-time favorites!  :)

So, am I understanding you correctly MT?  That D. Oistrakh conducted Rostropovich playing Shostakovich's first cello concerto?

PD

Yes, there aren't that many recordings with David Oistrakh as conductor, but this one of them
https://www.discogs.com/release/10673459-Shostakovich-Mstislav-Rostropovich-Cello-Concertos-Nos-1-2-Satires-Pictures-Of-The-Past-Op109

I'm listening to the Britten Cello Symphony now, with Isserlis, but need several listenings for it.

Pohjolas Daughter

Quote from: MusicTurner on December 08, 2021, 09:29:21 AM
Yes, there aren't that many recordings with David Oistrakh as conductor, but this one of them
https://www.discogs.com/release/10673459-Shostakovich-Mstislav-Rostropovich-Cello-Concertos-Nos-1-2-Satires-Pictures-Of-The-Past-Op109

I'm listening to the Britten Cello Symphony now, with Isserlis, but need several listenings for it.
Oh, cool!  How is the recording quality of the pieces?

Enjoy the Britten; I hope to put it on after a quick errand.

PD
Pohjolas Daughter

MusicTurner

Quote from: Pohjolas Daughter on December 08, 2021, 09:50:19 AM
Oh, cool!  How is the recording quality of the pieces?

Enjoy the Britten; I hope to put it on after a quick errand.

PD

Thanks. The concertos are in mono, so not the best - but one can be more tolerant, when it's about Russian music :) I'd normally hate it with delicate ~impressionist music, for example - unless it's just a piano.

Mirror Image

Getting back to Britten...

If you could only pick two song cycles from Britten to carry with you to the desert island, what would they be?

Mirror Image

Quote from: absolutelybaching on December 12, 2021, 09:18:04 AM
I shall cheat!

If I'm allowed an orchestra, then it would have to be the Serenade for Tenor, Horn and Strings, followed by the Nocturne.
If we're talking song cycles with just voice and piano, I'd take the Winter Words and Who Are These Children -though that leaves me bereft of the Songs and Proverbs of William Blake, which would be a bit sad!

All fine choices, indeed. 8) Winter Words I found especially good when I last listened to it. Of course, Serenade for Tenor, Horn and Strings and Nocturne are masterpieces.

Artem

Any specific recordings for those pieces?

Roasted Swan

I'm no Britten expert but for Winter Words this cycle with the very great Ian partridge is hard to beat (I much prefer him to PP)



currently a copy is on Amazon UK for £1.76.... (plus p&p)

On the theme of Partridge ..... his Serenade is excellent too with Nicholas Busch the very fine horn soloist



also on Amazon for £1.84 for the 2 discs.  This set includes a very good Handley/Tippett/Double Concerto, Handley/RVW/Prelude & Fugue and Tallis Fantasia and a not bad Britten Violin Concerto and a not great Belshazzar's Feast.  The Tippett and the Serenade are the highlights.......

Skogwald



This is what I have been listening to lately. Excellent performances of the two pieces I consider Ben's masterpieces (granted that there's so much I haven't yet heard).