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[Traverso]

Theme may be a bit strong, but there are certainly motivic connections throughout works like the Second Sonata or Marteau sans maitre.  They could seem disguised, though, because the motifs are frequently fragmented across varying registers, timbres, etc., and, more than analysis, it takes experience in listening to post-WWII music to really sort through all of it.

Instead of a linear structure, think of the music as exploring various facets of a musical idea.  It may focus in on some aspect, zoom out to give a wider overview, or turn it around in a surprising way.  Naturally, you can enjoy the works just fine without being able to follow all or any of this, as the glittering surface is so attractive on its own, and I think that there's no more reason why analysis should be necessary for Boulez's music than Debussy's or Ravel's.

Very clear and thank you for pointing this out.I have to discover for myself why the music of Boulez is harder to grasp than for instance Ligety.On the other hand forum member North Star implied " I found the music is more easily comprehensible than its reputation ".
I have to discover for myself if the sound world of Boulez is a impregnable fortress or not,maybe is a kind of sightseeing not a bad idea.
A new language has to unfold itself ,I will certainly  give it a try.

Many years ago I could not realize how I would appreciate the music of Messiaen one day.

[Baron Scarpia]

The only work I have listened to is Pli Selon Pli,his CBS (Sony) recording.

I wonder if there are structures to recognize,themes,in the works of Boulez,probably not.

Saturday I have the set at home.I understand that his early works are more complex or difficult to follow than his later works

The three works of Boulez that I have enjoyed most are Memoriale (explosante-fixe), Derive I and Derive II. I have read descriptions about how these works are organized, in terms of modes, groups of tones, etc. Honestly, it was most helpful in tipping me of what not to listen for. In my head, I tend to understand these works as a series of gestures, and the rules Boulez uses gives the piece a distinctive sound and keeps the notes from getting in each others' way. Just an impression from a novice listener to these works.

[kishnevi]

I found, going through that set, that the later the work, the more I liked it-- and that repeated listening improved my feelings for the earlier works. Except Marteau sans Maitre, which I still don't like.  But I still prefer the later workd.
Nonetheless, going through that set was a great help to me in digesting Boulez's work.

[Traverso]

The three works of Boulez that I have enjoyed most are Memoriale (explosante-fixe), Derive I and Derive II. I have read descriptions about how these works are organized, in terms of modes, groups of tones, etc. Honestly, it was most helpful in tipping me of what not to listen for. In my head, I tend to understand these works as a series of gestures, and the rules Boulez uses gives the piece a distinctive sound and keeps the notes from getting in each others' way. Just an impression from a novice listener to these works.

I had no difficultie with "Pli Selon Pli" and it is exciting to discover what Boulez is trying to communicate and how I respond to that.Take the music of Schönberg,it caused  a kind of hysteria in the public and in some way it still does.

Reinbert de Leeuw once said that it is incomprehensible  that music that is so utterly beautiful is appreciated by so few.

[bhodges]

To be quite honest,this is a giant step for me but I surely want to give it a try.

Good for you, for going outside your "comfort zone." (And thanks for that de Leeuw comment!)

--Bruce

[Traverso]

Good for you, for going outside your "comfort zone." (And thanks for that de Leeuw comment!)

--Bruce

Thank you kindly,I never had so much positive response especially when you consider the kind of music we speak about.



When you have a friend,a friend who loves music,it can give you so much pleasure,to look in each others eyes and see the joy that springs from the same source.Listening to music doesn'have to be a isolated thing.

[bhodges]

Thank you kindly,I never had so much positive response especially when you consider the kind of music we speak about.



When you have a friend,a friend who loves music,it can give you so much pleasure,to look in each others eyes and see the joy that springs from the same source.Listening to music doesn'have to be a isolated thing.

To your first point, we take pride that GMG has many different types of listeners, from those who listen to nothing but a single composer (say, Bach or Beethoven), to those who are almost exclusively fans of opera, to devotees of piano music. Judging from comments about other music discussion boards, some of them seem to actively discourage listening to contemporary music (or even late 20th-century works). We have many members here who like all sorts of composers, including Boulez (I certainly do).

And your second point is well taken. Of course, many of us probably listen by ourselves, most of the time, but it's true: listening with friends is great fun. I love listening when it can be one of the most satisfying forms of social interaction.

And last, in the Boulez box, do give Répons a listen. It's one of his most approachable, sensuous works -- to my ears, what Debussy might have written if he had lived in the present day, with access to computers. It's quite different from Le marteau or other earlier efforts.

--Bruce

[Traverso]

To your first point, we take pride that GMG has many different types of listeners, from those who listen to nothing but a single composer (say, Bach or Beethoven), to those who are almost exclusively fans of opera, to devotees of piano music. Judging from comments about other music discussion boards, some of them seem to actively discourage listening to contemporary music (or even late 20th-century works). We have many members here who like all sorts of composers, including Boulez (I certainly do).

And your second point is well taken. Of course, many of us probably listen by ourselves, most of the time, but it's true: listening with friends is great fun. I love listening when it can be one of the most satisfying forms of social interaction.

And last, in the Boulez box, do give Répons a listen. It's one of his most approachable, sensuous works -- to my ears, what Debussy might have written if he had lived in the present day, with access to computers. It's quite different from Le marteau or other earlier efforts.


--Bruce

Thank you ,I shall start with the piece you adviced me , "Répons " At the moment I'm going through the Bach cantatas,keeps me busy for a while.

[Mirror Image]

Just bought:



I bought this via eBay for $6 and it was brand new, sealed with free shipping. Can't beat that! I'm not a huge fan of Aimard, but why not? I already have his Études in the Debussy Warner set but I didn't own his Images, Series I & II, which is in this Warner release.

[Mirror Image]

Just bought:

[Traverso]

Just bought:

Very good

[Mirror Image]

Very good

Thanks, I listened to a bit of this set via YouTube and I was VERY impressed with some of the Ameling selections I heard.

[Que]

Purchased yesterday at a flea market:

   

Not recordings I really needed, but apart from the few euros that were involved in the purchase, Marcon is an amazing organist and this completes the series.
And not that I lacked excellently played John Bull on the organ with Thilo Muster (ifo records) on the shelf, but the label and organ attracted my curiosity. The K617 is a reissue - it was originally on Astrée.

Q

[Harry]

Purchased yesterday at a flea market:

   

Not recordings I really needed, but apart from the few euros that were involved in the purchase, Marcon is an amazing organist and this completes the series.
And not that I lacked excellently played John Bull on the organ with Thilo Muster (ifo records) on the shelf, but the label and organ attracted my curiosity. The K617 is a reissue - it was originally on Astrée.

Q

You live in an interesting place, always finding such gems
Not to be found where I reside

[Que]

You live in an interesting place, always finding such gems
Not to be found where I reside

Here in town there is a weekly market with old books. One or two sellers also sell 2nd hand CDs, mainly Classical.

Q

[kishnevi]

Perhaps Harry will start visiting 's Gravenhague on market days.

[Harry]

Perhaps Harry will start visiting 's Gravenhague on market days.

There is a good chance that I will, Although the train fare is not a cheap ride. And I need a Que Alert of course that something is awaiting for me, if Que will not snatch it away, and there is a fair chance he will, for we often like the same things.

[North Star]

Mainly for the incredible Godowsky Passacaglia
[asin]B00008ZZ2T[/asin]

[Undersea]

Latest buy:

[asin]B00008RWRH[/asin]

[Mirror Image]

Just bought: