Purchases Today

[Mirror Image]

Made a few purchases tonight:





The Osborne set of Ravel's complete solo piano works was an easy sell as I needed an outsider's perspective in this repertoire since I already owned, and enjoyed, Frenchman Bavouzet's set. The Brilliant set of Ravel's works for piano duo was a no-brainer as I loved what Argerich/Pletnev did in their performance of Ma mère l'Oye on DG. Also, a no-brainer was Larrocha's earlier recording of Ravel's PCs. Finally, the Falletta recording of some of Bartok's earliest orchestral works has been given some good reviews and I don't own but one other performance of Two Portraits, which, from what I've read, is a deeply personal work for Bartok and one he seldom spoke about. It's supposedly an intimate portrait of how he felt about violinist Stefi Geyer. Quite an interesting work indeed!

[Brian]

The Osborne set of Ravel's complete solo piano works was an easy sell as I needed an outsider's perspective in this repertoire since I already owned, and enjoyed, Frenchman Bavouzet's set.

And as you may know, Osborne's "Gaspard de la Nuit" was voted the #1 recording by GMG's Blind Listening Game, easily beating out Michael Endres and Jean-Yves Thibaudet.

[Wanderer]

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[The new erato]

Sometimes I wonder if you are more severely attacked by CDCDCD than I. 

Made a few purchases tonight:

Say no more.

[EigenUser]

Made a few purchases tonight:

Ravel's solo piano music is amazing (but it is all so difficult! ). You should check out Bartok's as well (Out of Doors and Sonata for Solo Piano). Not to mention the Ligeti Etudes. I know you don't listen to much solo piano music, but those all strike me as things you'd really enjoy.

[amw]

Ravel's solo piano music is amazing (but it is all so difficult! ).

The first five of Le tombeau de couperin are not that hard (although the toccata with all those repeated notes has indeed slain many an innocent pianist) and it's easy to get the notes of Le gibet (phrasing takes more time, interpretation a lot more). And Ondine's probably realiseable with a bit of practice, not even Michelangeli plays 21 in the time of 16 accurately anyway >_> Even Scarbo is supposedly less scary than it looks, according to people who've been there (although I sight-read it at half speed and was like "ok, fuck this"). Don't remember if there were any non-scary Miroirs, as someone *cough* is hogging the one score available at my uni library and I don't like playing from IMSLP printouts

I used to dream of learning the Ligeti etudes but I'd need a sixth finger and probably to practice eight hours a day tbh

(I have and enjoy Jacques Rouvier's Ravel set, there are obviously better ones but so far I haven't cared enough to look for them)

[Madiel]

The first five of Le tombeau de couperin are not that hard (although the toccata with all those repeated notes has indeed slain many an innocent pianist) and it's easy to get the notes of Le gibet (phrasing takes more time, interpretation a lot more). And Ondine's probably realiseable with a bit of practice, not even Michelangeli plays 21 in the time of 16 accurately anyway >_> Even Scarbo is supposedly less scary than it looks, according to people who've been there (although I sight-read it at half speed and was like "ok, fuck this"). Don't remember if there were any non-scary Miroirs, as someone *cough* is hogging the one score available at my uni library and I don't like playing from IMSLP printouts

Having learnt the Toccata, and Ondine, and Jeux D'eau, and Alborada del Gracioso, none of them were exactly a picnic.

But Scarbo was completely terrifying when I tried reading through it, and Un Barque sur l'Ocean always seemed impossibly daunting. Then again, there's always an element of subjectivity in these things because different people will inherently find different things more or less difficult according to their natural talents.

Of the other Miroirs, La Vallee des Cloches is relatively easy and the remaining two aren't as hard as either Alborada or Barque in my opinion.

[Madiel]

I just remembered, the publishers Henle have a difficulty rating system.

Here's their assessment of various Ravel pieces:

Ondine: Level 9 (their highest rating)
Le Gibet: Level 7/8
Scarbo: Level 9

Jeux d'eau: Level 8

Noctuelles: Level 8
Oiseaux tristes: Level 7
Une barque sur l'ocean: Level 8
Alborada del Gracioso: Level 8/9
La vallee des cloches: Level 7

Pavane pour une infante défunte: Level 5/6

Sonatine: Level 6/7

They don't publish a version of Le Tombeau de Couperin, though.

[EigenUser]

The first five of Le tombeau de couperin are not that hard (although the toccata with all those repeated notes has indeed slain many an innocent pianist) and it's easy to get the notes of Le gibet (phrasing takes more time, interpretation a lot more). And Ondine's probably realiseable with a bit of practice, not even Michelangeli plays 21 in the time of 16 accurately anyway >_> Even Scarbo is supposedly less scary than it looks, according to people who've been there (although I sight-read it at half speed and was like "ok, fuck this"). Don't remember if there were any non-scary Miroirs, as someone *cough* is hogging the one score available at my uni library and I don't like playing from IMSLP printouts

I used to dream of learning the Ligeti etudes but I'd need a sixth finger and probably to practice eight hours a day tbh

(I have and enjoy Jacques Rouvier's Ravel set, there are obviously better ones but so far I haven't cared enough to look for them)

True about Le Tombeau. The only really difficult one is the toccata. The forlane and minuet are pretty easy.

Some of the Ligeti etudes are actually doable. A few years ago I came close to being able to play Fanfares (No. 4) from start to finish at a reasonable tempo (only needed to learn the last 3 pages), so it can't be that difficult because I'm not very good. Of course, my self-standards are probably much lower than yours are so I doubt that you would settle for the way I played it.

Cordes a Vide, Arc-en-Ciel, Fem, and En Suspens also look significantly easier compared to the nearly-impossible ones (I'm looking at you Desordre, Autumne en Varsovie, Vertige, and Coloana Infinita).

[Todd]

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Thoughts on this one would be appreciated.

[André]

[Karl Henning]

Just landed:

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[Brian]

The first five of Le tombeau de couperin are not that hard

I'm not a pianist at all, nor even knowledgeable about the score, so feel free to discount this opinion, but so many professional, recorded pianists seem to totally bungle the rhythm of the very first bars of Tombeau. OK hang on let me look up the score. [time passes] OK the teensy tiny little notes at the start of each phrase in bar 2 (and at each reappearance). I guess those are like 24th or 32nd or something-th notes? A lot of pianists seem to really struggle with balancing the timing/speed of those vs. the timing/speed of everything else.

Maybe an artistic rather than technical challenge!

End totally clueless transmission.

[amw]

Having learnt the Toccata, and Ondine, and Jeux D'eau, and Alborada del Gracioso, none of them were exactly a picnic.

But Scarbo was completely terrifying when I tried reading through it, and Un Barque sur l'Ocean always seemed impossibly daunting. Then again, there's always an element of subjectivity in these things because different people will inherently find different things more or less difficult according to their natural talents.

Of the other Miroirs, La Vallee des Cloches is relatively easy and the remaining two aren't as hard as either Alborada or Barque in my opinion.

I hoped you'd weigh in! (Barque has always sounded daunting enough on recordings, not least because unlike in Scarbo which is show-offy, it has to sound absolutely effortless. I've never tried it, but probably will soon-ish)

I remember feeling like the problem with Scarbo was specifically my bad left-hand technique and I would have totally been able to do it if I knew the right exercises to strengthen it, but that was probably sour grapes—I have the score here and yea it's really hard. Doesn't help that I've lost the ability to do even the really "simple" stuff like the 4321 alternations on the first page.
(Considering piano lessons again)

I'm not a pianist at all, nor even knowledgeable about the score, so feel free to discount this opinion, but so many professional, recorded pianists seem to totally bungle the rhythm of the very first bars of Tombeau. OK hang on let me look up the score. [time passes] OK the teensy tiny little notes at the start of each phrase in bar 2 (and at each reappearance). I guess those are like 24th or 32nd or something-th notes? A lot of pianists seem to really struggle with balancing the timing/speed of those vs. the timing/speed of everything else.

Those are grace notes. Ravel specifically indicates to play the grace notes on the beat, which means the rest of the RH figure gets a little squashed to make room as necessary. I haven't heard a lot of recordings of Tombeau so I don't know how commonly they get screwed up—the two pianists I have in this piece (Rouvier and Rosen) both do fine. (The key is that those small notes are an ornament, sprinkled throughout Tombeau by Ravel after intense study of Baroque performance practice, and should add colour without being overemphasised, I guess—so should be played rapidly and unobtrusively.)

[Mirror Image]

Ravel's solo piano music is amazing (but it is all so difficult! ). You should check out Bartok's as well (Out of Doors and Sonata for Solo Piano). Not to mention the Ligeti Etudes. I know you don't listen to much solo piano music, but those all strike me as things you'd really enjoy.

Yeah, I definitely need to get Bartok's solo piano and the Kocsis set on Decca certainly will be the set I buy once I decide to take the plunge. I've heard all of Ravel's solo piano music before, of course, as I already own the Bavouzet, but I had listened to some of Roge's set years ago, which was quite nice. I'm quite interested in hearing his music for piano duo and the various arrangements for it. Ligeti's Etudes are very cool indeed. I've only heard them once, but I really should revisit them at some point. I own the Aimard recording on Sony.

[Madiel]

I remember feeling like the problem with Scarbo was specifically my bad left-hand technique and I would have totally been able to do it if I knew the right exercises to strengthen it, but that was probably sour grapes—I have the score here and yea it's really hard. Doesn't help that I've lost the ability to do even the really "simple" stuff like the 4321 alternations on the first page.

I was never great at something like those alterations to begin with...

Honestly, I can't recall having ever come across another piece that scared me as much as Scarbo. But then maybe there are other things out there more scary that I just wasn't interested in trying. I gave it a go because (thanks to Pascal Roge) I think Gaspard is one of the most fantastic piano works ever conceived.

I did read the score of Vine's 1st piano sonata, but I never sat down at a keyboard with it. That looked pretty daunting...

[EigenUser]

I'm not a pianist at all, nor even knowledgeable about the score, so feel free to discount this opinion, but so many professional, recorded pianists seem to totally bungle the rhythm of the very first bars of Tombeau. OK hang on let me look up the score. [time passes] OK the teensy tiny little notes at the start of each phrase in bar 2 (and at each reappearance). I guess those are like 24th or 32nd or something-th notes? A lot of pianists seem to really struggle with balancing the timing/speed of those vs. the timing/speed of everything else.

Maybe an artistic rather than technical challenge!

End totally clueless transmission.

I play the Prelude (very poorly, so take this with a grain of salt) and I can confirm that those grace notes are a pain to play.

Grace notes are just little notes that, in theory, don't "take up any space" in a measure. Of course, in practice they do. In most pieces they are played before the beat (kind of as a pick-up) so it is easy to make room for them by just truncating the previous note (i.e. the one before the grace note(s)). However, as amw said, Ravel insists that these are to be played on the beat (there is a footnote at the bottom of the page). This makes it much harder to do, especially since there are no grace notes in the left hand happening simultaneously. So should the left hand start slightly after the beat, making room for the grace notes to be played on the beat? Or should the left hand start on the beat with the grace notes? Honestly, I have no idea.

Yeah, I definitely need to get Bartok's solo piano and the Kocsis set on Decca certainly will be the set I buy once I decide to take the plunge. I've heard all of Ravel's solo piano music before, of course, as I already own the Bavouzet, but I had listened to some of Roge's set years ago, which was quite nice. I'm quite interested in hearing his music for piano duo and the various arrangements for it. Ligeti's Etudes are very cool indeed. I've only heard them once, but I really should revisit them at some point. I own the Aimard recording on Sony.

Kocsis does an awesome job with the solo piano works of Bartok. The works I mentioned (the Sonata and Out of Doors) are perhaps Bartok's thorniest, but he plays them with such great enthusiasm. He really emphasizes Bartok's treatment of the piano as a percussion instrument.

And Aimard does an awesome job with the Ligeti!

[Pat B]

Grace notes are just little notes that, in theory, don't "take up any space" in a measure. Of course, in practice they do. In most pieces they are played before the beat (kind of as a pick-up) so it is easy to make room for them by just truncating the previous note (i.e. the one before the grace note(s)). However, as amw said, Ravel insists that these are to be played on the beat (there is a footnote at the bottom of the page). This makes it much harder to do, especially since there are no grace notes in the left hand happening simultaneously. So should the left hand start slightly after the beat, making room for the grace notes to be played on the beat? Or should the left hand start on the beat with the grace notes? Honestly, I have no idea.

I'm less of a pianist than you, but I think the LH should be played on the beat there (with the grace notes). I think it would sound weird if you delayed the LH.

[not edward]

Rozhdestvensky's recording of Schnittke's 5th symphony.



I've never seen any evidence of this being released on physical media (I bought it as a $5 lossless download from 7digital), but I'm genuinely impressed. There is some scrappy playing at times and the recording quality isn't the best, but this *is* a thoroughly theatrical work (it's very obviously related to the ballet Peer Gynt) and Rozhdestvensky and his orchestra go hell-for-leather into the climaxes and linger over the more gentle passages in a manner that perfectly suits the music.

[aligreto]

Beethoven: Archduke & Ghost trios / Beaux Arts Trio....