Can people tell

[Karl Henning]

Not only is it still on, it is now a listener-supported station, and is available online. I was going to mention this somewhere here, because starting on Wednesday March 21, they are going to have 10 days of only Bach, during which they are going to play every single thing he wrote, and it will be available online. Check www.wqxr.org for the details.

Très cool, thanks! : )

[jochanaan]

...I think that  exposure to works by many different composers coupled with exposure to many works by the same composer  teaches you to differentiate, and I think that a whole lot of the learning takes place at a sub-conscious level of your brain...we switched to WQXR, the NYC-based classical station, and have had it on just about non-stop ever since, and in that time, I have noticed that my ability to identify the composers of music that is new to me has improved immeasureably, and I believe that  hearing thousands of different works by hundreds of different composers has greatly increased the size of that subconscious knowledge of music...

Makes perfect sense to me.  In the beginning, it's "all music," but the greater your listening experience, the more you recognize individual differences.

[71 dB]

I think you have made some good points. I have noticed since listening alot more to classical music I have an idea if its likely to be Bach / Handel even if I have never heard the piece.

Composers operate in different "musical coordinates" and when you learn to decode musical dimensions, it's easy to tell composers apart. Same with music styles/periods. Baroque music occupies different parts of multidimensional musical space than renaissance or post war music. Within the part of baroque music, French baroque occupies a different subdivision than Swedish baroque does (some overlapping is possible because of mutual influencies). Greater composers were able to operate in their own musical coordinates in pinpoint accuracy and are easily recognized. Lesser composers have fuzzy coordinates. The coordinates also move slowly with time as composers develop their style/learn new things/change their personal preferencies.

For those potentially flippant readers who wonder about what coordinates I am talking about: Musical space is an abstraction and I believe differently shaped for everyone (this may be a major reason for differences in musical taste). A very simplified eaxmple of a musical space is a 3-dimensional [melody:harmony:rhythm] -cubic unit space. A composer who emphasizes melody might operate in coordinates [0.9:0.3:0.4] while a very rhytmic composer may occupy coordinates [0.2:0.5:1.0]. Composers like Bach probably worked in a musical space of 20-30 dimensions, even if they weren't aware of that themselves.

[Cato]

Greater composers were able to operate in their own musical coordinates in pinpoint accuracy and are easily recognized..

Any attempt to mathematicize human behavior is doomed to fail: you can make broad generalizations about people and about specific people, but any kind of "mapping" of creativity or any other aspect of human nature can only be a metaphor.

Lesser composers have fuzzy coordinates.

IF one wants to pursue this as a symbol, I would think just the opposite is true!  Great composers are often (not always) harder to "map" e.g. think of Wagner's early operas vs. Tristan und Isolde or the Sibelius of the First Symphony vs. the Sibelius of the last 3 symphonies, or the difference between the Strauss of Elektra and that of Der Rosenkavalier or the Metamorphosen.

How about the fuzziness involved in mapping Schoenberg?!

For those potentially flippant readers who wonder about what coordinates I am talking about: Musical space is an abstraction and I believe differently shaped for everyone (this may be a major reason for differences in musical taste). A very simplified example of a musical space is a 3-dimensional [melody:harmony:rhythm] -cubic unit space. A composer who emphasizes melody might operate in coordinates [0.9:0.3:0.4] while a very rhythmic composer may occupy coordinates [0.2:0.5:1.0]. Composers like Bach probably worked in a musical space of 20-30 dimensions, even if they weren't aware of that themselves.

Where does this remarkable quote come from?

One can make an analogy that the rediscovery of perspective in late Medieval and early Renaissance painting is parallel with the invention of polyphony in Music.  To carry it into a multi-dimensional universe seems unnecessary.

[71 dB]

Any attempt to mathematicize human behavior is doomed to fail: you can make broad generalizations about people and about specific people, but any kind of "mapping" of creativity or any other aspect of human nature can only be a metaphor.

I am "mapping" used language rather than creativity and were do you get the idea that any attempt to mathematicize human behavior is doomed to fail? I'm sure mathematical models can be sometimes very successful in explaining human behavior (at least statistically).

I won't use more time on your  flippant remarks. Believe what you want. I wrote what I think and that's it! Have a nice day. 

[Cato]

I am "mapping" used language rather than creativity and where do you get the idea that any attempt to mathematicize human behavior is doomed to fail?

I won't use more time on your  flippant remarks. Believe what you want. I wrote what I think and that's it! Have a nice day. 

It was not clear at all to me that you were "mapping used language," and still, I am not sure I know what that means.

I'm sure mathematical models can be sometimes very successful in explaining human behavior (at least statistically).

I won't use more time on your  flippant remarks. Believe what you want. I wrote what I think and that's it! Have a nice day. 

Sorry, I believed I was responding seriously: human behavior (and even that of many animals) cannot be reduced to a set of co-ordinates or formulas.  If so, then all behavior can be predicted specifically, and not just commented upon through general observations. 

I have two sons who have advanced Mathematics degrees and degrees in Statistics and Financial Engineering (?).  They are working in financial institutions - for very good pay - where they try to predict the behavior of assorted markets and accounts.

They will be the first to tell you that the whole thing is - if not quite a sham or a fool's quest - irrelevant for individuals and still not very accurate even when looking at large group behavior over time.  Otherwise, all financial booms and busts could be predicted...and no busts would therefore occur!

You seem, however, not to have been meaning that.  So, if you were referring to "mapping used language," then that needs to be explained further.

[71 dB]

I have two sons who have advanced Mathematics degrees and degrees in Statistics and Financial Engineering (?).  They are working in financial institutions - for very good pay - where they try to predict the behavior of assorted markets and accounts.

Your sons try to predict a chaotic system. Difficult as hell (hence for good pay). The way Bach composed is not chaotic. Bach's music is not chaos. It has rules, ways of doing things and that's what makes it sound Bach and places Bach's music in it's own location in the musical space of 20-30 dimensions. Now I go to sleep.

[Cato]

Your sons try to predict a chaotic system. Difficult as hell (hence for good pay).  Bach's music is not chaos. It has rules, ways of doing things and that's what makes it sound Bach and places Bach's music in it's own location in the musical space of 20-30 dimensions. Now I go to sleep.

The heavy type needs great elucidation tomorrow! 

[huntsman]

Not only is it still on, it is now a listener-supported station, and is available online. I was going to mention this somewhere here, because starting on Wednesday March 21, they are going to have 10 days of only Bach, during which they are going to play every single thing he wrote, and it will be available online. Check www.wqxr.org for the details.

Very nice station.  I listen to it over here in Johannesburg, South Africa.